Author Topic: To delete.  (Read 1500 times)

Offline kasnavada

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To delete.
« on: June 06, 2015, 02:22:23 am »
I had a "long" discussion with Cinth on fisheries and their placement, and he's going on with Ptarth.
http://arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=17071&nbn=11#bugnotes

What I'm thinking about is "related" to this, but... what are you current thoughts on how the tech tree unlocks and explains the adjacency mechanics, especially as a new player ?

I'd like the following information and comment, if possible:
- if you've played in games with adjacency bonus before
- how you've learned how it work (making mistakes ? overthinking it ? parsing tons of guides to find optimal patterns ? reworking everything every few turn via destructing things ?).


My intent behind this post would be to rework the tech tree progression into teaching players, including those who never heard of adjacency concept before, increasingly more complex pattern as tech are revealed. But, maybe thinking about that might give other ideas / options.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 06:20:38 am by kasnavada »

Offline ptarth

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2015, 02:54:56 am »
Supreme Commander
Basic Adjacency bonuses for resources and factories
I don't recall it being documented very well. There was a tutorial entry about it, otherwise it was trial and error and looking at differences on buildings after construction.

I can't actually think of any other titles off hand that also implemented it in a significant way.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2015, 03:17:04 am »
Supreme Commander
Basic Adjacency bonuses for resources and factories
I don't recall it being documented very well. There was a tutorial entry about it, otherwise it was trial and error and looking at differences on buildings after construction.

I can't actually think of any other titles off hand that also implemented it in a significant way.
Fun series it was though.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2015, 04:08:08 am »
Yes, really good series. If arcen was making a RTS game I' be taking my UI clues from there. I rarely played a game where everything was so much at its place. I barely remember ever looking for something in the interface in the first iteration, and then forged alliance got out and was even better. But let's try not to sidetrack  ;)

About adjacency bonii:
About recent games, Offworld trading company did it too with an excellent interface (already suggested and linked to one of your UI post Ptarth actually).

Offline Cinth

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2015, 04:12:08 am »
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2015, 04:30:55 am »
Cinth, you're being annoying here. :-\ That amount of nitpicking is getting truly distasteful, and continuously assuming I don't know about stuff in your replies, like AI War in that example, is really getting insulting. Especially since you've had the nerve of telling me to ask for clarifications instead of throwing stones.

What I meant is that AI war's interface is done, as is the game. Currently there is no work (mostly bug fixes) being done on it, no "full" planned expansion AFAIK. So Arcen is not currently "making" AI war. Arcen has done AI war. Arcen may do more AI war. SBR is what Arcen is making. That's what I meant. Also I can't really label AI War as a "pure" RTS game but that's a matter of personal opinion and would be nitpicking.

Please, no more of that.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 05:43:25 am by kasnavada »

Offline MayhemMike

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2015, 12:50:10 pm »
I'm the kind of guy who ignores the adjacency bonus most of the time unless it is a real game changer.
And jep Offworld Trading company does it really well. I guess the SBR version of that system would be to highlight
tiles where an adjacency bonus would apply when constructing new buildings

Offline ptarth

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2015, 02:10:58 pm »
I'm been thinking about this, and I think, perhaps, that this is being stretched too far. Almost all City builders have buildings with area effects, e.g., a police station affects things around it in an area, etc. This is pretty basic to the genre. Most of the time the range of this affect and the depth is not listed, it is trial and error. With the adjacency bonuses we are only extending that logic out a smidgen, and to make up for it, tooltips are included specifying the nature and amount of the bonus.

I really like the adjacency system. I think that it really adds to the game and provides the next level that makes SBR potentially different. I also think that Expansion 2: Arcologies and Multi-Tile Buildings will be awesome. You can take your fisheryx3 + wharf setup and replace it with a huge 7 tile building with a neat graphic and special effects. The effect of your downtown buildings will also be really cool, you can get actual skyscrapers and such. And the graphic would vary, but also depend upon the underlying tiles that then created the building.

Note: Expansion 2: Arcologies and Multi-Tile Buildings is not an official title or product endorsed by Arcen. This is the product of me subtly in  brainwashing Chris in a very long con to do things I think are awesome. Plus there are some mantis entries that Chris has responded favorably about this sort of stuff.

Note: This post contains blatant lies, hopes, and dreams. Arcen does not endorse nor not endorse this text. In fact, you might even say, they are completely unaware of this text.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Learning Adjacency
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2015, 02:14:05 pm »
Cinth, you're being annoying here. :-\ That amount of nitpicking is getting truly distasteful, and continuously assuming I don't know about stuff in your replies, like AI War in that example, is really getting insulting. Especially since you've had the nerve of telling me to ask for clarifications instead of throwing stones.

What I meant is that AI war's interface is done, as is the game. Currently there is no work (mostly bug fixes) being done on it, no "full" planned expansion AFAIK. So Arcen is not currently "making" AI war. Arcen has done AI war. Arcen may do more AI war. SBR is what Arcen is making. That's what I meant. Also I can't really label AI War as a "pure" RTS game but that's a matter of personal opinion and would be nitpicking.

Please, no more of that.

If you don't know what's wrong with what you just said, fine, I won't tell you.  You've been here since '12, you should know by now.  If you feel like every time someone pointing out that you are wrong is throwing stones, fine, be wrong.
I'm done dealing with it.   ::)
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: To delete.
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2015, 06:29:51 am »
I'm not religious in the first place, but it has good points in it.

Quote
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

If you can't see how your 04:12 AM comment can be seen as I've told above, if you can't tell the difference between "pointing out you're wrong" and "insulting the person while pointing you're wrong", well not much I can do. I do have a low tolerance for insults, for people that set themselves above others and such. That includes myself, and if shown wrong, I will present excuses. "Sorry" is in my posts.



However, I'm willing to start discussing it and solve that issue once for all. This forum is way to small and we'll clash again, because I won't ever care to limit my interventions if I think I can help in an issue. And, while my opinion of your posts is what it is, your interventions are valued buy others and it'll be dumb for it to be lost.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 07:28:00 am by kasnavada »