Background Story Discussion

[ptarth]

I have a real problem with the background story "Our ship crashes and we are trying to fit into a world where the other races have been for ages".
This does not explain why ALL of the races start off as tiny hubs and then are rapidly expanding. In a mature world, all the races would have reached equilibrium and all space would be contained. Any outsides would be dealt with rather quickly, because you are stealing SOMEONE's resources. It would be akin to an alien civilization landing in Canada and then claiming it for themselves and not expecting a worldwide response.

So I've been searching for solutions that make me happy. I've come up with the following.

• Dark City
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_City_(1998_film)
• Our lander crashes into an artificial world. This world is reset every Y years to its initial state, and let run again, like iterative simulations.
• We need to find a stable existence in the world. If we do we can exist into the next reset, if not, we perish forever.
• Matrix
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix
• The world is a simulation or our reality is just a lie.
• Every Y years it is reset, our leader knows the true, but the rest of us only know a lie.
• We need to start the circle again, leading to the same place, but not knowing our destiny.
• DRingworld
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld
• The world is a giant Zoo, with entire races and civilization as entities.
• When we landed the Zoo walls were broken and everything was released to be mixed together
• World may or may not have been in stasis prior to landing
• Survive, Die, or Conquer. That is all.

In many ways these ideas are all very similar. However, they fill this void of disbelief when I'm trying to figure out why the stable AI Race populations start at 300 people, but then rapidly blooms along with expanding their territory.

[Captain Jack]

"The Ringworld is unstable! The Ringworld is unstable! The Ringworld is unstable!"

Spoiler for Hiden:

Anyone who gets that reference without googling it is older than me. 

[tbrass]

Personally, I like the idea of an unstable ringworld type situation. I just don't like the idea of simulated existence. Makes me feel like a floating point error.

I absolutely agree that we need some sort of explanation as to why everyone has suddenly decided to start expanding as we land.  Though, in my experience, only the thoraxians seem to really grok expansion.

[ptarth]

I just don't like the idea of simulated existence. Makes me feel like a floating point error.

I actually think they are all funny.

Imagine a god running iterative tests on petri planet #2024 Trial #23423. On this trial (for his dissertation) a contaminate (you) gets into his petri planet.

In simulation #214234, the history of Species Y is corrupted, leaving them with data on polka and sheep to recreate their own existences. This error is not found before the test begins (down with Raid failure).

The curator stands before the exhibit. Here we have display case B with Planet 23421. It is home to our exquisite collection of Nebula 2341B species. Using the viewer you can see the detail and artistry of each of these primitive races. Wait. What is that THING in the collection. Egha, the isolation barriers are down. They are mixing, the racial purity is gone, and where is that black smoke coming from?

I absolutely agree that we need some sort of explanation as to why everyone has suddenly decided to start expanding as we land.  Though, in my experience, only the thoraxians seem to really grok expansion.

That was under the broken AI logic. They now have 0 problems expanding everywhere. I've been shelled, by I think, everyone but the Andors.

"The Ringworld is unstable! The Ringworld is unstable! The Ringworld is unstable!"

Wait, are you saying this isn't a book everyone read in their childhood.
No. I'm not going to look up what year it is.

[MaskityMask]

Honestly, its rather obvious that things aren't natural in the planet since races are all over the place faraway from each other and Tales of Woe does point out its odd they have pretty high tech level but no satellites or anything. Shouldn't we wait for release version to comment on the story? <_<;

[ptarth]

Honestly, its rather obvious that things aren't natural in the planet since races are all over the place faraway from each other and Tales of Woe does point out its odd they have pretty high tech level but no satellites or anything. Shouldn't we wait for release version to comment on the story? <_<;

Given how little was ever clarified about the starting conditions of The Last Federation and how much that bugged me, I'm taking liberties. 

[Captain Jack]

I read it in highschool. I'd guess maybe a third of everyone active on this forum has read it.

Anyway, 1971 Worldcon a bunch of MIT students do the math and decide the Ringworld can't sustain its orbit around the captured sun. They form a conga line and chant that, leading Niven to write The Ringworld Engineers to fill the plot hole. With the door to sequels opened, things devolved as per the usual pattern (see: Ender's Game sequels, Dune sequels).

Now to bring this around to the topic, I still don't think this necessarily needs an ingame explanation. First and foremost, we're still in beta, NONE of the story content is in and everything we know outside the premise is still subject to change. Second, a bad explanation is worse than none. Leaving it open lets you consider the reason for yourself, while a reason that doesn't fit ALL of the facts decreases trust in the narrative.

Also simulated existences suck, springing that on the player is always kind of a dick move. RIP SO.

Honestly, its rather obvious that things aren't natural in the planet since races are all over the place faraway from each other and Tales of Woe does point out its odd they have pretty high tech level but no satellites or anything. Shouldn't we wait for release version to comment on the story? <_<;

That's been pretty clearly explained: the planet is alive and keeping the races planetbound, and gets upset when anyone tries to leave. Like, "rend the land and send kaiju at them" levels of mad. Just look at some of the planet range on the individual starship escape buildings. 

[x4000]

Interestingly, I'll point out a few things:

1. Based on your commentary here, you won't be disappointed when you find out what is really going on.  But I'm not going to make it abundantly clear what is going on, you'll have to piece it together through things that you discover in the alternate victory paths in particular.

2. Some big questions about AI War are answered here, in the same sort of manner.  I'm not going to hand it to you on a platter, but this crowd will pick it up no problem at all.

3. If the ambiguity about the starting situation of TLF bugged you, well, I knew a lot more about that than I let on, and this game actually answers most if not all of those questions you had.  I usually have a lot more background on game story than I actually put in the game, and sometimes I'm miserly in doling that out because I reserve the right to change it if need be (heh), and because I think it's more fun to reveal in a slow and stretched-out way.


ALL THAT SAID: If there are questions that you guys have, please do post them over here to make sure I don't miss any: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17439.0.html

[crazyroosterman]

I have to agree with not giving an explain to the starting position till were super far into the beta if things changed to make that explanation then youd have to redo the explanation and that would be a pain in the ass.(I assume)

[TheVampire100]

It wouldn't surprise me if the planet turns out to be some lifeform. Not a sentient planet but an organism on it's own.
It makes totally sense, I mean, look at the zenith. They are huge! Okay, they are cyborgs but they still are very big and maybe their base was big to begin with (since we never saw the original form of a Zenith we don't know).
Spire are also big (Dreadnought anyone?) but they are mineralbased (crystals do also "grow" but I forgot how exactly).
So, what is the pkanet actualyl? A planet with a soul or it is a big alien lifeform where other races thought "Oh, look, a planet, let's live on it!". That would explain some stuff.
Planet Rage: Well, the "planet" is angry about the parasites on its body and want to get rid of them. If you see a tick biting you, you remove it. Thoraxians are in that way more of a symbiont. They take care of the "parasites" and in return the planet let them live on it, feed from them etc. other life forms on the planet may also be symbionts or act similiar in a way to our bacteries.
The "Transendence" ending would lead to replace the fucntion of the Thoraxians with your race. the planet ackknowledges that your race is more fit for the role of removing the parasites, including now the Thoraxians that go on a rampage just to stop you.

Other victory conditions may lead to a "peaceful together" where you don't try to compete against each other and the planet don't care enough anymore because they don't hurt him anymore.

That's of course my own little theory/fantasy but comparing it to AI War I think it would be possible. Also, I read a short story with a similiar setting.
I don't know the exact plot anymore but overall it was about two astronauts that discover a new planet, decide to land on it, making some research, taking off and then they got caught by another alien race that shows them that the "planet" is acutally a giant alien that they worshipped and the two astronauts killed it with the fire of their rocket and their resaerch on it.

[ptarth]

As long as there is a reasonable setup explanation I'm fine with it. I can now go back to obsessing about factory versus bank incomes.

[nas1m]

I have a real problem with the background story "Our ship crashes and we are trying to fit into a world where the other races have been for ages".
This does not explain why ALL of the races start off as tiny hubs and then are rapidly expanding. In a mature world, all the races would have reached equilibrium and all space would be contained. Any outsides would be dealt with rather quickly, because you are stealing SOMEONE's resources. It would be akin to an alien civilization landing in Canada and then claiming it for themselves and not expecting a worldwide response.

I have to say that I was also quite confused by not encountering any other race before turn 100 in my current (first) game.
I somehow imagined hitting a sprawling alien city much earlier to be honest.
So I was kind of underwhelmed once I found them .
This was on Krolin/Normal/Normal Size

As a side-effect (and this might be totally related to me being fully busy with understanding what is going on and thus not expanding rapidly enough) the second half of my first 100 turns came across as a little bland - due to the lack of (inter)action.

How about letting at least a couple of races start in a more sprawling way, while others are e.g. are also just beginning to build up or are more filling the niche of a smaller but highly fortified position or high-tech enclave.

Just some ideas from the top of my head.
Definitely looking forward to play more, though, so no reason to sweat Chris...

EDIT: Of the proposed alternatives I like the zoo one best. I have a feeling that this might be what the official story turns out to be after all .[/list]

[MaskityMask]

From what I can tell, the plot is basically that the planet is alive and wants all the races to stay there for some reason(hence why it goes batshit crazy with monsters when you start building escape into space buildings) and is basically them main antagonist of the game. Transdence ending seems to be about becoming "The hand of the planet" which makes thoraxians go crazy which I guess since according to city grid thoraxians cause 0 planet rage they are the current hand of the planet and don't appreciate attempt at being replaced.

The planet being the main antagonist is probably why the two end of the world scenarios(doomsday device and the one were you cause armageddon with volcanos) are "from certain point of view good endings" according to what Chris said in podcast. At least thats what I'm assuming, it'd be at least mercy kill for races stuck on there? <_< Depends on what the story stuff will be when game eventually includes them. I mean, for all we know planet is actually nice guy and just dislikes pollution and warmachines And international banks. Seriously, why does that cause planet rage? xD

I wonder if final game will have the "spectre" from back when game was called spectral empires... Planet talking in deep foreboding voice at times would be cool xP

Edit: Ah crap, forgot that Vampire posted about same thing as I did <_< Well, I do disagree with "wanting to get rid of parasites" part since planet refuses to let races leave the orbit, so clearly it just doesn't want to destroy them unless its sadist or something

[x4000]

You are very perceptive.   There's some notable things missing about the story from your notes there, but you'd have no basis to think of those since I've given no real hints on those yet.  In terms of the planet voice, that scary voice from back when it was called spectral empire, yep that will be there.  So will the computer voice from the Tales of Woe videos!

[crazyroosterman]

them. I mean, for all we know planet is actually nice guy and just dislikes pollution and warmachines And international banks. Seriously, why does that cause planet rage? xD

same reason international banks put you in debt