Author Topic: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).  (Read 14639 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2015, 01:14:16 pm »
Yep, exactly.  You can also hold buffer territory that you expect to lose repeatedly, but keeps territory behind it safe.  Aka, strategies like in AI War.

To me, the territories bring out a lot of the AI War elements in terms of planets and connections, which of course is kind of Risk-like in general, anyway.

I know it's a sin, but I haven't really played Endless Legend much.  I have it, but I just never could get into it that much.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2015, 01:25:37 pm »
I heard EL has good music, though I can't say much else about it either since I don't have it.

Offline topper

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things.
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2015, 01:38:57 pm »
You guys wanted ways to see district distances better, and plan those more ideally.  Well, districts are going away, in exchange for much more straightforward territory control that follows some similar rules but makes it all a lot simpler.

So is everything city/empire wide now? I feel like that in inherently easier for the player to understand and less open for cheese/abuse. Also easier to balance.

Or alternatively, will there be things dependent on which territory it is located in now?

What if power/food/water/etc can only be delivered to adjacent territories now (as in, the one its in, and the directly touching ones). This would force distribution of building types instead of "here is all my power gen in the same place". I guess we will have to see how territories work before additional complications like that make sense.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2015, 01:48:20 pm »

Quote
Keith is working on a huge amount of stuff with the top toolbar, which should make the clarity on that waaaay better.  There will still be more things I want to do with some of that in terms of cutting things or moving things, but those are a lot less critical in my view than what he is working on right now.

Ahah I've been waiting for that part !

Offline x4000

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2015, 02:05:32 pm »
Things won't be city-wide any more than they are now, but some things (like repairs) will be LESS city wide (aka only in the district they are in), and construction will shift that direction a bit, too.  With some other changes there to make it less of a hassle for players, in general, too.

Some things like police protection or hazmat, as two good examples, would no longer have a radius.  They'd just work on the district they are going in, end of story, which is a lot easier to follow.
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Offline Elijah

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2015, 02:17:05 pm »
This is great news! I'm happy about this direction! Can't wait to play the game with the new changes.

That is one thing that I disliked about Civ, that you can build as many cities as you want, leading often to "The most cities I own, the stronger I am, therefore let's just spam the map of cities". Instead territories fix in stone your power (in a broad sense), which is something I like.

Well have a good working day Chris! :)

Offline Aklyon

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2015, 02:28:13 pm »
District-wide hazmat and police? Sounds awesome!

Offline nas1m

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2015, 02:30:50 pm »
Sounds great! Keep on doing your magic guys!
Can't wait to play that new iteration :D!!
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Offline topper

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2015, 02:40:41 pm »
Now we can have each district focused on a particular industry. Each year we can hold a tournament where children from the districts are forced to fight to the death play against 10/10 AI in AI War.

hmm, maybe there could be a hunger games related achievement with districts



Question, about how many hexes will be in each district?

Offline Mick

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2015, 02:57:56 pm »
I know it's a sin, but I haven't really played Endless Legend much.  I have it, but I just never could get into it that much.

I don't think it's a sin. It's a game I want to like more than I do - mostly because of the braindead AI (which is why I wish more single player games used the asymmetrical AI concept you do in AI Wars)

Offline jerith

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2015, 03:07:52 pm »
I like the sound of this. How will pollution work in this new system? Generation and spread per-tile but cleanup per-territory?

Offline x4000

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2015, 03:56:33 pm »
Thanks guys, I'm glad there is general excitement.  Answers to a couple of questions:

1. The number of hexes in a territory vary quite widely, but it tries to be never less than about 10.  Let me elaborate:

- There are some very large bodies of water that have "however much water is all connected together, plus any little tiny islands that are <= 10 land tiles" all as one big (or several big, most of the time) territory.  That can have anywhere from hundreds to thousands of tiles in on territory, depending on if you are playing islands or lakes or continental or just how the map generates.  However, NOBODY can own these territories.  These are "neutral waters."

- People can build seaports on the edge of neutral water territories and attack across great distances to adjacent districts to the neutral waters (making adjacency to those both dangerous and powerful), and you can go out there and fish or gather resources or whatever.  And the Yali tend to live out there, rarely owning any territories of their own.  They might own a territory if they happen to be living at least partially in a pond that's small enough to be part of a larger land-based territory, but that's it.

- The other territories are usually around 150ish tiles each, but it varies somewhat by map type, and of course map style.  Islands has smaller territories, whereas Mars or Europa has larger ones.  Territories are funky-shaped, but usually follow natural boundaries like mountains and so forth, and then expand onto the mountains so that each adjacent territory is capturing part of the mountains, or one territory gets all of it.  So it tries to have a good size of normal usable tiles within a territory (150ish) before it starts adding in less useful things like mountains or ponds.  Well, "less useful" is not completely the right term, but at any rate "not as useful for building plots of main city."

- The game tries to then condense the normal (non-neutral-water) down to some number of territories based on the map size.  On huge I think the number is 85, on standard I think I put it at 70, and I think tiny was 60.  So, it takes the smallest-possible territories and combines them with the smallest-possible neighbors first, trying to not make mega-territories when it can avoid it.  But some will inevitably be 300+ tiles on a standard map, which is okay with me -- think of it as Asia.

- But then you have some other leftovers that simply cannot be combined (like islands of size 11+) and thus are tiny little Madagascar entities, and then you also have those kind of midsize leftovers that were created usually because of terrain features like mountains and water blocking them off, which are in the 30-50 tile range, and those are a bit more like Australia.  Or Mordor, depending on which version of Risk you're playing. ;)

- The net effect is that there are usually only a few tiny territories (11-30 tiles), a bigger handful of midsize ones (30-99), a majority of "regular" ones (100-250 tiles depending on map size), and then a few mega territories that are 250+.  Not counting neutral waters in any of those, as those are typically mega territories but actually could be as small as a 15+ tile lake.  IIRC that's the number.


2. Pollution generation is planned to still work the same, as is crime gneration, except crime prevention and pollution cleanup would both shift to being territory-wide.  So, just as you were guessing.
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Offline ptarth

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2015, 04:06:00 pm »
If pollution cleanup is at the level of the territory, then it seems that pollution generation should probably also be at the level of the territory. Otherwise you spend a lot of computing resources on a level of detail that doesn't make a difference. The same is true from crime, but to a lesser extent.

I haven't said anything earlier because I have no idea how this will turn out. It is going to change everything about the SBR that I've been testing. I don't know if that is going to end up being good or bad. So I'm going to weigh in as cautiously optimistic. I can sympathize with all of the effort that has been and will be lost with this change, but such is the price of progress (or at least change).
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Offline Cinth

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2015, 04:17:05 pm »
If pollution cleanup is at the level of the territory, then it seems that pollution generation should probably also be at the level of the territory. Otherwise you spend a lot of computing resources on a level of detail that doesn't make a difference. The same is true from crime, but to a lesser extent.

I haven't said anything earlier because I have no idea how this will turn out. It is going to change everything about the SBR that I've been testing. I don't know if that is going to end up being good or bad. So I'm going to weigh in as cautiously optimistic. I can sympathize with all of the effort that has been and will be lost with this change, but such is the price of progress (or at least change).

It is a buff (kinda) for hazmats and police, though pretty big for police.  Hazmats at least won't be living with the pollution they clean up.  Not needing police right in the middle of everything is going to be nice.

@ Chris:  Are these going to be "permanent" structures (territories)?  How do terraforming actions impact say, neutral waters (by adding or removing water tiles)?

And add me in with ptarth on the cautious optimism.  You guys have a great track record of making phenomenal changes that are great, but this is going to change a lot of "feels" in the game.
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: (Chris) I'm working on a few things (territories).
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2015, 04:52:35 pm »
Territories, huh? I have to say, they sound really amazing. And like a solution for a lot of problems of the game. especially the exploration part gets finally its revolution.
I'm really curious how well this plays out in the game.