General Category > Stars Beyond Reach Beta Discussion

SBR v3 Thoughts

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ptarth:
I've been putting off my views of SBR v3 until I had a better grasp on it. I believe I have reached that point.

* I like SBR. I've played and tested it for 160 hours according to steam. I've made 400 mantis reports. I don't think there is a better way to demonstrate my interest in it nor my goodwill.There are a lot of good points about SBR, 160 hours says that better than I could by writing pages of text.
* SBR v3 was a massive departure from SBR v2 and v1. I'm mixed when it comes to those changes.
* Territories were added to combat the problem with military buildings ranges and combat. To an extent it is better, but the combat model is still being refined.
* Watching a massive battle between territories is really cool, but I think the individual attack from each building one click at a time should be dropped. I believe that allowing all military buildings to attack per click would be a better option, with a maximum clicking available per turn.
* Risk Style - Chris keep referring to SBR as Risk style. I think this is a bad way of describing it, because the combat model is more sophisticated than that and describing your game like Risk is a bad thing to sophisticated gamers. Referring to it as territory-based combat where all of your forces engage the enemy simultaneously is much better in my mind.
* The Economy - Need-based - I really like the new addition of each building have needs to be fulfilled.
* The Economy - The economy of SBR is still in awkward shape. The current worker efficiency method of crown generation promotes the building of only the most efficient buildings. This promotes a monoculture of buildings. It did not solve the problem of large swathes of the same building being placed, it just enhanced it. The main economic building systems is still under work, but has been put into the back burner as the event system is developed. The economy is a major component of games in 4X genre, and so it does need to be developed more.
* The Economy - I strongly feel that a need-based economy would be better. In this system, each rank of dwelling would have citizens with different needs (bunker, dense, spacious, luxury). These citizens. Fulfilling the needs of each citizen would provide some number of crowns. This would change the game from placing high efficiency crown producing buildings to promoting the growth of your population and then fulfilling the needs of the citizens. This is more inline with city builder mechanics (e.g., Anno, Cleopatra, Tropico).
* The Economy & Territories - I don't like how the territories work in regards to the economy. The local and global resource model and how it affects need supply is really awkward. I am in favor of only using the territories in regards to claiming area and military combat. The economic system should act on your entire area, and there should be no local resources.
* Pollution Model - I like the v2 & v1 pollution model. I thought it was really cool. The shift to territory wide representation has left the pollution system rather shallow and there isn't much to it anymore. You can't really interact with the system beyond stopping all pollution in an area.
* Events - Until they are further developed I can't say much.
* City Building - I thought the adjacency bonuses in v2 were what really gave depth to the design of SBR. It made placement matter and gave you micromanagement tasks. The balance was certainly off on many things, the crime situation comes to mind. Regardless it allowed me to make my city, how I desired, and not forcing myself into restricted versions.
* Tech Tree - Because so few buildings matter and the choices are rather obvious, the tech tree is very shallow. You don't have any trade offs or choices. Queuing the technologies from cheapest to most expensive and then forgetting about it is all that's required. This will be rectified once everything else is working better. Alternative systems from other games have costs for each successive tech increasing, so that it matters which order you get technologies in. It is gamey, but it might be sufficient.
* Abilities - Currently each building that allows an ability triggers in X turns. I think it should be changed that buildings fire EVERY turn, but the strength is dependent upon the sum of all of your buildings. The cost would also be proportional to the strength of the attack. You would receive a single attack notification each round that would summarize all of the abilities used upon you, and used by you upon your targets. This would reduce ability spam and make them actually matter.
* Market Items - I like the change from the previous market item implementation. However I believe that shifting from a straightforward add X levels to new buildings to a version that increasing experience gain for that particular building by X% would be better. It would scale better and make stealing items matter.
* Underground - Still under utilized. Perhaps something simple would be sufficient to make it fuller. A set of buildings that effect the building built above it. These buildings would be able to use the existing underground art or would be simple variants. Underground bunker - Workers are protected if surface building is attacked. Underground Workspace - Increase efficiency of the surface building. Underground housing - Increase the housing of the surface building. Reinforce Foundation - Increase the health of the surface building.
* I like SBR. I've played and tested it for 160 hours according to steam. I've made 400 mantis reports. I don't think there is a better way to demonstrate my interest in it nor my goodwill.There are a lot of good points about SBR, 160 hours says that better than I could by writing pages of text. I've copied and pasted this because otherwise this all sounds pretty dire, it isn't. It is a message of cheer and celebration.
* Caveats - These are just my opinions. My view isn't necessarily the same as the Arcen view. Goodness knows that Chris and I have different perspectives about things. Actually, most of the time we see things completely differently, and even when we agree we come to vastly different solutions to the problems we agree on.
/soapbox

crazyroosterman:
hey so 1 I agree that the adjacency bonuses were awesome.
2 I rather like your idea of a needs based spamming offices isn't any fun for me

3 personally I don't really remember very much about the old implementation of pollution apart from it not being per territory

4 international abilities are timed?! I had no idea I assume the game wasn't just telling me what was going on.

5 why not it wouldn't cause any harm(your underground buildings idea)

not really going to comment on the other points brought up until there considered properly implemented.

Cinth:
Last time I checked, I had 152 hours played and 104 Mantis posts.  I'm having a blast playing. 

gnosis:
I'm with ptarth on this one.

1. The tech tree needs more stuff, perhaps also add building efficiency unlocks?

2. There are strong documented reasons for the needs based economy. Play style and preference is one thing, but the current system is flawed and it shows if you were to make a serious city building game.

3. need acts 3-4 for examining the warfare and diplo model. Can't really speak for that one.

4. Pollution is too binary: either you have a hazmat and don't care or you have polution problems. Same with trash and bodies after the 1/10 balance pass. Perhaps make hazmat an act 3 building and have the player cope with pollution and its effects untill then?

tombik:
Really well written, now that the release is even later, I hope they can do things for all of the issues you brought up.

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