Author Topic: So here's my dual dilemma for alpha (with Skyward, or really any game).  (Read 17305 times)

Offline x4000

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I think we will likely start alpha in the morning, just FYI.  I think Josh is off for the night, and I need him to organize it.  Plus I need to finish trade, diplomacy, and the auto-updater tonight.  I'm aaaaalmost done with the first two, aside from testing them.  So that will at least make me feel better about the first alpha pass, heh. ;)
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Offline Cinth

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I think we will likely start alpha in the morning, just FYI.  I think Josh is off for the night, and I need him to organize it.  Plus I need to finish trade, diplomacy, and the auto-updater tonight.  I'm aaaaalmost done with the first two, aside from testing them.  So that will at least make me feel better about the first alpha pass, heh. ;)

Thanks for the update :)
Hmmm... diplomacy.  That's best handled by the point of a spear  :D
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Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline x4000

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Sure thing.  And diplomacy in this game is super simple in terms of mechanically-speaking.  But it's implications are fun and potentially complex.
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Offline Aklyon

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Are aggressive negotiations are involved in the implications? :)

Offline Cinth

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In games like Civ, I use diplomacy to tech up fast and unharnessed.  Then all hell breaks loose as those who thought they were friends quickly find themselves outmatched. 

Here in Skywatd, we shall see, we shall see  >D
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline x4000

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You can't control your dudes, so you get no say in implications, no.  The mechanics are simple:

1. Embassies get set up on both sides.
2. Diplomats (expensive) get placed and travel between them.
3. "Enlightenment" gradually goes up each time a diplomat arrives.
4. Enlightenment goes down when buildings get taken over in either town.  Also diplomats are expensive to replace if they get killed.  Also if the town is lost temporarily, enlightenment goes to 0 on that town.
5. When enlightenment on a town reaches 100%, every building in that town becomes invincible, crime disappears, you get huge amounts of points from the town every turn thereafter, and some other good things happen.  It's required for some edicts and challenges, for one thing.


Having an invincible town (or pair of towns) is actually pretty interesting for a couple of reasons.  It's a great place to set up a thriving economy that is hard to eff with, for one. ;)  You can also use it to create a military clearinghouse that just churns out the human units.  Etc.

Anyway, so the diplomacy here doesn't involve you (other than placing embassies and diplomats and keeping them safe), and is pretty unlike any other game.  Which was kind of the idea.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 12:30:42 am by x4000 »
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Offline Aklyon

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I know this isn't the most helpful of things (or even in the right genre, it would fit an RPG much better), but its the first thing I thought of after reading that, assuming you set up the embassies and not the dudes:
"Oh no, I'm the arse who causes all of those escort quests." ;)

Offline Cinth

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Cool.  I've tried to stay off this part of the forum so when I play for the first time, everything feels new.  From what I have read, I am really looking forward to that first play.  It feels like Skyward is going to be a game I can loose hours with :)
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline x4000

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I know this isn't the most helpful of things (or even in the right genre, it would fit an RPG much better), but its the first thing I thought of after reading that, assuming you set up the embassies and not the dudes:
"Oh no, I'm the arse who causes all of those escort quests." ;)

You place the embassies and the dudes, but yeah -- that's a pretty funny way of looking at it, actually! :)

Cool.  I've tried to stay off this part of the forum so when I play for the first time, everything feels new.  From what I have read, I am really looking forward to that first play.  It feels like Skyward is going to be a game I can loose hours with :)

Much appreciated. :)
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Offline mrhanman

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Does anyone else smile when they see the game's units/pieces referred to as "dudes"?  :)

Good luck getting the Alpha ready!  I'm sure it will go well.

Offline x4000

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Does anyone else smile when they see the game's units/pieces referred to as "dudes"?  :)

I do, which is why I say it. :)  I love that in Carcassonne they are called "meeples," too.

Good luck getting the Alpha ready!  I'm sure it will go well.

I appreciate it!  Diplomacy is done as of about 30 minutes ago, and I'm closing in on having trade finished and then am heading for some sleep.
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Offline Aquohn

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So, the suspense is finally resolved tomorrow, then? As in, about who's in alpha, and who's not?
Arcen in Summary:
thank you so much, RNG
It aims to please!

Or is that "to kill"?  Hmm.

Offline x4000

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Well, we'll do it in batches, so only sort of.  Batch 1 would be tomorrow, but it would not be all the alpha folks.
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Offline Misery

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As the whole alpha dilemma goes.... I think it really does depend alot on the player, to some extent.

Balance issues are important, and while I think that the "first impression" is also important, I think that seeing different iterations of the game... and being able to COMPARE them... actually helps alot more.   You can look at both, and say.... wait, this thing over here worked best the previous way because of this, which I can now see because of the updated version.... and stuff like that.   Very helpful in balancing.   I do alot of testing and such for games in general, and this is usually the approach that I see.   

Sure, some players might complain about "argh, I liked it better the old way", but really, you're likely going to have SOME sort of complaints regardless of which way you do things. 

Beyond that, I give the situation a resounding "BAH!", since the alpha isnt there yet and I have negative patience.   Really looking forward to trying this one out!


Try reading boatmurdered.  It starts a little slow, but is absolutely fricking hilarious.  I literally laugh out loud almost constantly through all of StarkRavingMad's part.

In terms of being lost with the game... yes, that describes me also.  I've played about 12 hours of it, and got very little accomplished in it.  It was fun, but I couldn't learn it at a pace that I felt satisfied with.  But boatmurdered is one of my favorite things on the internet ever. :)

Cool, I'll give it a read.  As far as the game itself goes, I never got off the ground (well, in the ground).  I spent about an hour trying to wrap my head around the UI (what UI) and get things going.  After that, frustration set in.  I feel like DF is going to take a lot more effort than I want to put into a game and that is just to get started.  One of these days, maybe, but right now it isn't what I want in a game.

@Aklyon: Funny you should mention glaciers.. that was how my game started  ::)


Yeah, that's how that game goes for most players.   Me, I sat through some 50+ tutorial vids (each a good 30 minutes long) on Youtube to learn the game..... and I did this THREE TIMES.    So yeah.... hard to learn initially.   The nice thing is, you only have to do it once.... and the game is so freaking worth it.

Boatmurdered is hilarious, but I find it's even more satisfying when crazy crap like that happens in your own game.  I had one point where I've got my soldiers fighting this giant spider monster thing, right, and one of them dies, so his friend goes totally berserk, leaps onto the spider, hanging onto it's face, and proceeds to slowly start yanking/stabbing all of it's teeth out, one by one.  Finishes it off afterwards with a dramatic stab through the head.  Marches back towards the fort in great triumph..... but never makes it there, as he wanders too close to the nearby pond, gets pulled in by an angry fish, and drowns.   


I only wish they'd improve the UI for it.   The game is so very, very amazingly good.... but sadly, too many players are put off by the bit where the UI is total gibberish until you've spent like 30 hours with it.


Offline SRombauts

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I understand well your dilemma for alpha, but as far I am concerned, I think that its exactly what an Alpha is for: find the right few people that can help you finishing your game development, before you can start to balance/polish it with more folks during beta.

As for the right time for that, just don't let the weekend pass without at least a first alpha shot!

edit: and count on me for alpha!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 03:08:36 am by SRombauts »