Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.951

[Cinth]

I know keeps don't spawn them anymore.

[Pepisolo]

Maybe I just got really unlucky, but I would have expected to have seen at least 1 over the duration. Only monsters I saw were the chimeras I created for myself.

[x4000]

Correct, the keeps don't spawn them, and no bandits spawn except for keeps unless you are playing on a map with a ton of dead forests (then creatures spawn as you'd expect).

[Pepisolo]

Correct, the keeps don't spawn them, and no bandits spawn except for keeps unless you are playing on a map with a ton of dead forests (then creatures spawn as you'd expect).

I see, so I need a map with dead forests in. Just seemed very strange to go through the Age of Monsters and not see a single monster.

[x4000]

They were causing so much imbalance and so much distraction from the main red vs blue that I decided to take them out of the keeps.  Basically one monster there was worth several regular humans.

As it is, the age of monsters was really about getting into the first gods anyhow.  And the monsters are yours for the placing as a major way to affect the game!

[Pepisolo]

As it is, the age of monsters was really about getting into the first gods anyhow.  And the monsters are yours for the placing as a major way to affect the game!

OK, I really just highlighted it in case it was indicative of a bug. Shame not to see monsters running around. It would be great if you could make it so that at least one or two spawn during the age of monsters, although that's probably not worth the programming effort, I guess. I was probably just unlucky with my map, too. No biggie.

[chemical_art]

Frome someone who.has never played.the.age.of monsters...

What if the first.monster each side places in this age.was free?

[orzelek]

All that nice monsters....
Quite often they don't feel like ones. I seen them dead before they even move quite often.
You can use them to wreak havoc outside of battlefields - but if you want help with defense be prepared to place them in larger quantities. When you have lvl 3 armies mythological units are not so awesome. They might take 1-2 enemies with them or die without making a dent.
Not sure if this is a balance concern or not.

Edit:
After that new AP change Lithovoloi became killing machines. They are cheaper than Sfendonitai, have more health and attack 3 times per turn (AP per attack 3 with 7 moves.. something is amiss here too). And they are easiest unit to produce for Greek.

Edit 2:
Bandit archer refused to step off fortress before shooting. He had at least forest tile and woodcutter tile to go to. Will try to get save with this behavior.

[PokerChen]

Playing through the new patch now.. anyone else have comments on the resource availability now?
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11617

[orzelek]

in general that AP change messed up balance heavily.
Some units suddenly gained ability to attack three times per turn. This mostly affects archers and siege units.

Is that drastic change intended?

[x4000]

in general that AP change messed up balance heavily.
Some units suddenly gained ability to attack three times per turn. This mostly affects archers and siege units.

Is that drastic change intended?

Oh you bet.  I knew it was going to be changing stuff heavily.  It's also situational, because it depends on if they have to close distance or not.  And a melee unit with a fast speed sitting next to a target is going to beat on it repeatedly the next turn.  That's more or less the idea.

I wouldn't say that messed up balance per se, just that the balance is completely different now.  It's also more in the vein of what a lot of you had been suggesting, too.

Because it's so different, that was one thing I wanted to get in before the press and other players started learning the game; otherwise that was going to be a nasty shock (as with you),

[PokerChen]

Look what you have done, Mr. Developer. The Norse doesn't deserve such a beating - but the bandit keeps keep spawning next to and in their towns.

I don't mind the new AP balance, I think.  I don't know what this actually means for Singastein and God rampages (the ones that say multiple attacks per turn). I could do with some text somewhere that tells us # APs required to attack.

[x4000]

I could do with some text somewhere that tells us # APs required to attack.

Right there in the tooltip for every unit.   Generally the AP cost is 3.  If some units are OP with that, it's easy to change the AP up and down on a per-unit basis.

The Singastein and so forth reduce the AP cost to 1, which is the same as before.  So not much changes there.

[orzelek]

If current balance is intended... then I'm sorry it's weird.
You have handful of units that are uber - like nothing else is worth building (maybe sieges). Lithovoloi would count here. Same with Akontistai.
Bandits have their unique Hippo-Toxote. This one went now into area denial death field unit. Especially when standing in forest.

Basically if you have anything other than plains melee needs to be very lucky to approach and attack or they will get brutally shot. All "heavier" melee that can move few tiles (or 1 in rough terrain) is simply an archery target. Or bandit food for Hippo-Toxotes

And after all of that.. you hit neat edge of civilization and you have bandit country with loss because of score counter. Or city death due to aforementioned bandits.

[x4000]

Okay, I should have been more clear: the current mechanics of the balance are correct, and in general the amount of turns that units can attack with are intended.  But I didn't mean to imply that every aspect of the balance is going to be perfect or something.  Obviously this is a big shift, so the AP costs of some of the units will probably need adjustment.  I will look specifically at the ranged units, which seem to be your main issue right now -- that about sum it up?