Author Topic: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!  (Read 3273 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2013, 08:53:55 AM »
Whew, lots of things.  Some stuff I've just already fixed in the release notes.  For the other things:

1. Regarding human units ignoring available tokens, I'd need a savegame to look into that.  No idea why that would be.

2. Regarding soul cost of mytho units: honestly "messiness" has never really been a concern for me.  I think that there will be more stuff that mixes in soul costs, and certainly resource costs.  All-soul costs was never something that was completely intended, that's just how it started because I can't retroactively add a cost like that without care or I risk pissing people off.  I think that the current style of soul costs helps make the mytho game slightly more challenging to do, but I knew it would not stamp it out since buildings also give souls.
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Offline nas1m

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2013, 09:03:54 AM »
2. Regarding soul cost of mytho units: honestly "messiness" has never really been a concern for me.  I think that there will be more stuff that mixes in soul costs, and certainly resource costs.  All-soul costs was never something that was completely intended, that's just how it started because I can't retroactively add a cost like that without care or I risk pissing people off.  I think that the current style of soul costs helps make the mytho game slightly more challenging to do, but I knew it would not stamp it out since buildings also give souls.
This is totally okay - at least in my book... I see the soul cost of mythos as a welcome, almost purely thematic, addition really.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 09:06:25 AM by nas1m »
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Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2013, 09:12:53 AM »
Great!
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2013, 09:32:51 AM »
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2. Regarding soul cost of mytho units: honestly "messiness" has never really been a concern for me.  I think that there will be more stuff that mixes in soul costs, and certainly resource costs.  All-soul costs was never something that was completely intended, that's just how it started because I can't retroactively add a cost like that without care or I risk pissing people off.  I think that the current style of soul costs helps make the mytho game slightly more challenging to do, but I knew it would not stamp it out since buildings also give souls.

I'll leave this issue then, although I do disagree with the current implementation. Some Mythos now have four resource requirements which I think is a little too much. I like to keep things as simple as possible, and I don't think there's much benefit to the added soul cost, especially with only a near nominal 1 soul price. Still an unnecessary overcomplication in my book. That's probably my last thought on the subject, though.

Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2013, 09:47:44 AM »
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2. Regarding soul cost of mytho units: honestly "messiness" has never really been a concern for me.  I think that there will be more stuff that mixes in soul costs, and certainly resource costs.  All-soul costs was never something that was completely intended, that's just how it started because I can't retroactively add a cost like that without care or I risk pissing people off.  I think that the current style of soul costs helps make the mytho game slightly more challenging to do, but I knew it would not stamp it out since buildings also give souls.

I'll leave this issue then, although I do disagree with the current implementation. Some Mythos now have four resource requirements which I think is a little too much. I like to keep things as simple as possible, and I don't think there's much benefit to the added soul cost, especially with only a near nominal 1 soul price. Still an unnecessary overcomplication in my book. That's probably my last thought on the subject, though.

It may be that we wind up doing the simplifying.  I think it's worth exploring in the meantime, though, because there are some more things in the works that may affect the soul availability and thus make the cost on mythos a lot more relevant.  That said I also agree that four resource costs are in general too much, and so that's only on some mythos and in relatively rare cases.  Everything else is three max.
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2013, 10:05:30 AM »
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It may be that we wind up doing the simplifying.  I think it's worth exploring in the meantime, though, because there are some more things in the works that may affect the soul availability and thus make the cost on mythos a lot more relevant.  That said I also agree that four resource costs are in general too much, and so that's only on some mythos and in relatively rare cases.  Everything else is three max.

Alright, we'll leave it for the time being as I don't know what's coming up in future changes. My spidey sense is telling me that there are fundamental cracks in the Mytho material resource mechanic/costs that is being papered over with the addition of the souls cost. As you say, though, let's see how it develops. Actually, I'm a little worried that this Souls thing might become a general band-aid for various fundamental problems that could otherwise be fixed in a simpler manner.

I do like the general Souls give you rare uber powers mechanic, though.

Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2013, 10:15:12 AM »
I don't think that the mythos are generally too uber, honestly; even the few people who play with them excessively aren't finding the game broken or something.  It's not like the mountains defense strategy.  This was just a minor tweak in terms of balancing a bit better; in a way that affects edge cases moderately, and most cases minorly.  I do wish to integrate the souls into the game more and more, and in a lot of senses yes they'd be for tuning balance in various ways.  But I don't think of them as a band-aid in particular (and also, if there are simpler approaches to whatever tuning, I'm always all ears).
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Skyward Collapse 1.402 Beta "Man The Defenses!" Released!
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2013, 10:50:52 AM »
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I don't think that the mythos are generally too uber, honestly; even the few people who play with them excessively aren't finding the game broken or something.  It's not like the mountains defense strategy.

Exactly. That's one of the reasons I don't like the Soul cost thing, I just keep thinking "is this really necessary?" The mountains solution you came up with was tremendous, actually making that type of mountain defense strategy a welcomed part of the game rather than just stamping it out completely.

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I do wish to integrate the souls into the game more and more, and in a lot of senses yes they'd be for tuning balance in various ways.

I actually quite like the current separation of the resources and souls costs. It makes things simple. You've got a list of uber skills that cost only souls, so have at it, but choose wisely. That alone works for me. I'll wait and see what you come up with, though.

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But I don't think of them as a band-aid in particular (and also, if there are simpler approaches to whatever tuning, I'm always all ears).

I was hoping the removal of the Mytho free upgrades would have been enough. Not quite, I guess.

Offline x4000

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