Question about on-demand mechanic

[chemical_art]

The tutorial does say that almost all buildings require cut stone.  To me it is implied that stone is important.

Taking a second to look at the tooltips for the buildings shows you need a lot of stone.  If I need a lot of stone, I better produce a lot of stone. 

Not to be harsh but how much hand holding does a game need to do vs player self-discovery?

Considering how common a question it is, more then currently given?

If a book is hard to read, is it the fault of the reader or the writer?

[Cinth]

And it took me about 30 minutes of watching resources to figure it out.  I even wrote a post in strat discussion about it (dated but valid in concept). 

Depends on the book.  If you are talking about The Silmarillion then it's Tolkien's son who is to blame.  Some books just don't suit some readers.  Is that the writers fault?  I don't read anything in legalese or academia because I don't understand it.  Is it the writer's fault?

[chemical_art]

It should, optimally, be clear within the tutorial, and not the result of watching resource patterns. You cannot depend on noticing the patterns if you can avoid it, for example I never noticed the patterns, I just moused over the resources, see which is growing and which are falling, and adjust production accordingly. 

[Cinth]

"Building multiple pig farms gets you more pigs faster". "Building multiple iron mines gets you more iron faster". Rock is blah blah blah ... used in most buildings, siege weapons and one of the most core resources. Same for wood.

Butcher and smithy talk about in town only finished goods.. Carpenter and Mason talk about globally used finished resources.

All of this is in the tutorial.  The mechanic is gone over at least twice.  I had to learn it without the benefit of the tutorial.  And it isn't an uncommon theme that if you want to build more, you have to have more resources.
In SCII if I want to run 4 barracks pumping out marines non-stop, I need to have the mineral income to support it, namely a ton of SCVs bringing it in.  It's the same thing here.

Once you have the practical application part done, you get to where it doesn't matter.  I don't watch resources at all.  If I see something dip low on a production cycle, I drop more of it. 

[chemical_art]

I don't watch resources at all.  If I see something dip low on a production cycle, I drop more of it.

And there is the confusion sets in, because for finished goods this isn't true. The gut reaction to increasing goods in many cases is "increase production of the manufacturing of the unit, not the raw resources"

The solution to this is simple, actually. The resource tooltip for finished goods should simply show the math that derives it. For example, if one had 120 rocks, the cut stone tooltip would say something like...

"40 cut stone = 120 rock / 3"

That would make the math very clear at a glance, and instantly would convey the message much more effectively then the clumsy walls of text.

[Cinth]

3:1 is the same thing.  And that is what the mason TT contains.  I don't think a dynamic number there would be helpful when everything that requires cut stone has the amount available right there (and on the right hand resource bar).

[chemical_art]

A dynamic tooltip for cut stone would:

A) Fill in the white space currently lacking for the resource.
B) Convey clearly for those who have not played the tutorial / messed it among the walls of text that
    1. The rate that the resource is produced is not dependent on the number of converters
    2. Rock and cut stone, for example, are drawn together, rather then other situations where resource conversion is a one way street
    3. Help draw attention that drains on the raw resources are not just due creating things that need raw resources, but also that of making finished ones on a turn by turn basis.


These are all things that a player can learn on their own, yes. The same could be said though for players who didn't need the resource by turn by turn changes. However it would help new players tremendously, and would very cleanly and fairly easily I think put to bed one of the most common questions for new players. In game and without needing a tutorial, no less.

[Cinth]

Well... I'm not going to comment on players who forgo the tutorial.  I learned it without the tutorial, they can too.  You jumped off the deep end, I hope you can swim (personal opinion here).  The tutorial hits all these things multiple times.  If you don't want to bother reading the text, then I dunno.

When I look at the butcher or mason, I want to see the conversion rate. If I need to know how much bacon I can make on this turn, I can see it on the right.

I think what the tutorial might need is a simple resource chain description for the 3 types of chains. With an example.
Global raw   -> Rock, wood, pigs, sheep  *You stockpile these
Global finished -> Rock > Mason > Cut Stone  *These are made when you need them. You do not stockpile these.
Per town finished -> Pig > Butcher > Bacon *These are made in each town and only when you need them. You do not stockpile these.

Or something like that to recap what was important in the first setup steps.

[Misery]

The solution to this is simple, actually. The resource tooltip for finished goods should simply show the math that derives it. For example, if one had 120 rocks, the cut stone tooltip would say something like...

"40 cut stone = 120 rock / 3"

This, actually, is a good idea.

Consider adding that one to Mantis if you havent already.  That probably would indeed help alot with clarity.

[Mánagarmr]

After having played with it for a bit, it's a stupidly good mechanic though. I absolutely love it.

[Misery]

After having played with it for a bit, it's a stupidly good mechanic though. I absolutely love it.

Yep.  It works out pretty darn well.   Just needs to be less mind-shattering in terms of learning it.