Author Topic: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808  (Read 4742 times)

Offline Cinth

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2013, 11:14:17 pm »
Except for the exceptions. ;)
Exceptions: The Red Text Generator, to the death of you!!
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2013, 11:23:47 pm »
All right, a new version for ya: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Skyward_Collapse_-_Pre-Beta_Release_Notes#Alpha_0.810

Maybe that will get those two, maybe not.  Fingers crossed. ;)
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Offline Cinth

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2013, 11:36:23 pm »
I'll give it an hour and I'll hit it up again lol.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Oralordos

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2013, 11:51:46 pm »
From the sounds of things, it seems Cinth has really earned that free copy of the game with all of the bug hunting. Especially the hard work in finding reproducible situations. I kinda feel guilty only mostly pointing out that if the player pays attention, the economy was still overpowered. Oh and convincing one of my friends to get it as soon as it hits beta.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2013, 12:03:40 am »
It's fun for me.  It's the aspect of my old job that I miss the most.

./humor

And if you actually look...

CalculateDamageIDoToHim

Chris has it out for me ;)

./endhumor
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Misery

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2013, 08:36:10 am »
Ok, couple of things I've noticed with this patch:


1.  Certain siege units are damn near invulnerable;  like the battering ram, which has a ton of health, and instantly melts any melee unit that attacks it.  And boy are you in trouble if that rolling nightmare grabs power from a ruins tile. Just ONE of those might be able to obliterate an entire city unless you can somehow get a horde of ranged guys attacking it. The rest of the siege units are just absurdly strong.... currently, before the "Woes" are added, it's a pretty bad idea to actually build siege-producing buildings, and even then I'm not so sure.

2.  Even WITH siege units though, there's one thing that suddenly seems massively imbalanced, which is defense towers.  There's a couple of problems with this;  first of all, the defense they give is worthless.   The siege attacks are simply too strong for it to matter (and heck, I'm not actually sure it's doing ANYTHING against those), and the defense also doesnt matter against normal units, because they'lre going to take tons of hits to do much damage to buildings ANYWAY.    But even beyond all of that.... as best I can tell, there's only one unit in the game that can defeat a tower (not counting gods here), which is the Trojan Horse.  Even the strongest of other units would take a squillion hits to pop one of these.  Any city with a tower, it's normal buildings can be lost, but unless a Trojan Horse is coming at it, the actual hall will be unbreakable, because that tower will never shatter.   And that's just with ONE tower.... let alone more.

3.  While I'm still on medium difficulty in my current game (dont want to restart again just yet!), I'm trying to play without smiting buildings at all.   Finding this..... difficult.   The main problem:  A lack of low-level tactical options. There's about four of these:   1, the unit level-up thing  2, Commandment, and 3, placing a ruins tile, and 4, smiting a land tile.  These ARE useful, but quite situational. If I've got a city producing too much crap, like, say, the red guys took some big hits from random things, and the blues, who were previously producing at a similar rate, are now stronger and producing WAY too many, well... there's not much I can do to STOP that flow.

And placing buildings somewhere often doesnt seem to help;  the only buildings that do anything offensive are unit-producers, and these wont help in many situations, because you have no way to get them to specific areas without dragging the entire army there.... and even then, that's only if you're targeting the enemy side.  Not to mention they produce slowly, and doing something like building a new city is a very slow process.   If there's a problem like a group of bandits appearing BEHIND a rear city (which has happened a few times), there's next to nothing that can be done about it with normal units (except dragging the entire enemy army behind it, which is unlikely to work anyway).   When this has happened, I've pretty much HAD to place mythological units to deal with this, because there's just no other options.  All of the normal units are too busy with the constant war in the center of the board.   This is making those unit types (mythological) seem abnormally important, and I'll end up devoting like 2 or 3 cities on a side JUST to producing the resources that can summon those things, since they're the only things that can get at specific spots.   Heck, even counting the rest of the mythological menus, there's nothing in those that helps with that sort of situation.     Now, I'm not really sure how often it's intended that I use the mythological units, but I feel like I'm relying on them a bit too much.  But maybe I *am* supposed to be using them alot past a certain point?  Heck if I know.

Now, granted, just 3 or 4 bandits back behind a city isnt really that much of a threat, but I've been considering that sort of thing more of a test;  trying to find ways to simply defeat something that's back there without using Commandment (because dragging entire armies around EVERY SINGLE TIME something like that attacks seems a bit off to me), and without throwing an angry god at them every time (not that I can yet anyway). And.... yeah, so far it's not happening.  Well, not without Ice Giants and the like.

Now it's totally possible that I'm approaching things in simply the wrong way here (which, honestly, is likely what I'm doing! I love strategy games but I can also be rather dense about them), so if there's any tips or such, or something that I'm outright missing that'd be a big help.

I do think though that the siege bit needs tweaking, and that the towers need some changes, to be useful for defense while not having 999,999 health.

Offline Mick

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2013, 08:44:09 am »
I'm wondering if the incense costs of Norse mythological units are what they are supposed to be? The game tells me that Norse should rely more on them because they have weaker armies, but to be able to build them I seem to have to build a ridiculous amount of seers - while at the same time supporting a larger "regular" military to handle the greek units.

I know the factions are supposed to be balanced in different ways on purpose, but I spend a lot of the time trying to help the Norse and NOT wanting to help the greeks in any way. Is it expected that if one side is just dominating that I should basically give up spending their actions, I hate to do that because it feels wasteful. It just seems that the Greeks are so much easier to build up in general.

Offline Misery

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2013, 08:54:26 am »
I'm wondering if the incense costs of Norse mythological units are what they are supposed to be? The game tells me that Norse should rely more on them because they have weaker armies, but to be able to build them I seem to have to build a ridiculous amount of seers - while at the same time supporting a larger "regular" military to handle the greek units.

I know the factions are supposed to be balanced in different ways on purpose, but I spend a lot of the time trying to help the Norse and NOT wanting to help the greeks in any way. Is it expected that if one side is just dominating that I should basically give up spending their actions, I hate to do that because it feels wasteful. It just seems that the Greeks are so much easier to build up in general.

Aye, I'd wondered this as well.   Though, if I recall, I think Chris said that there's still a bunch of balance changes yet to make to get them to that point?   Personally, I think the fish/rice costs of all of that type of unit should be reduced a bit.... 300 was too low, but 600 is too high.  Mostly, it just seems like you need WAY too many fish/rice focused cities to use those units to their max potential.



And to add to my earlier post:   Not doing as badly now, learning a bit more here with the new balance and such.   This game, it can definitely be a bit quirky in terms of HOW you apply your tactics, but it's very satisfying once you figure some things out.   Though there's still alot of throwing Ice Giants and such into the fray.


Also, really liking the Cerberus unit.

Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2013, 09:12:16 am »
Coming soon to a release near you:

* The health of defensive towers are now 3x that of a town center, rather than being invincible.

* Some siege unit rebalance:
** Siege units can no longer counterattack enemies that attack them; this makes them more vulnerable in a lot of interesting ways, and the whole class thus feels more like siege weapons in a general RTS.
** None of the siege units have auto-heal any more, since they have such high base health.  This also plays into their uniqueness as a group, as they are like juggernauts you have to stop..
** The health of siege units has been dropped by half of what it was in the prior version, although it's still very high.

* The incense costs of the Norse mythological units have been reduced dramatically.
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Offline Mick

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2013, 09:15:41 am »
I love the change to counteracttacks. It's much more fitting. A siege unit should really have escorts if they want to protect themselves, they shouldn't be able to just destroy armies all by themselves.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 09:20:08 am by Mick »

Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2013, 09:17:43 am »
Right; but even so they are pretty dang high-health on there, so escorts don't have to be too precise (since you can't remotely guarantee that).  But your guys that attack them aren't just suiciding, anyhow.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2013, 09:41:06 am »
Coming soon to a release near you:

* The health of defensive towers are now 3x that of a town center, rather than being invincible.

* Some siege unit rebalance:
** Siege units can no longer counterattack enemies that attack them; this makes them more vulnerable in a lot of interesting ways, and the whole class thus feels more like siege weapons in a general RTS.
** None of the siege units have auto-heal any more, since they have such high base health.  This also plays into their uniqueness as a group, as they are like juggernauts you have to stop..
** The health of siege units has been dropped by half of what it was in the prior version, although it's still very high.

* The incense costs of the Norse mythological units have been reduced dramatically.


This sounds like a perfect fix for all of that.  Siege units for the most part dont even make sense for having auto-heal, too, so that change seems logical (most are made of wood and such...)

Though I did see some odd behavior with siege units as well:  http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11432  That one is them attacking white-marked buildings over and over.

I also had one, the battering ram, suddenly stop and just sit perfectly still for about 5 or 6 turns (while literally in the very center of a city that it isnt done smashing yet).   And some ballistas that were smacking enemy units in front of them (with melee attacks, not their ranged shots) a few times, though that one didn't happen often.


I'm finding that the increase in the siege units' effectiveness really is quite the change, as VS city combat now actually HAPPENS, forcing me to rethink some tactics from when that pretty much never happened.   Sure is getting interesting fast!  But it's satisfying to figure out the tricks necessary to deal with that new chaos.   The only real problem is that I cant control or do anything with the gods that I have right now, since their tokens arent in. 

Offline x4000

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Re: Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.808
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2013, 10:07:32 am »
Cheers -- if you think those changes were huge (in terms of impact on game flow), I have some more whoppers for you coming right up shortly, including a fix to that bug of yours that I'd already seen on mantis.  Thanks!
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