Design Discussion: Civilian Hamlets And Victories (Expansion 1)

[Winge]

Regarding hamlets producing resources for players. One thought I had is the possibility of mythical/god tokens with universal effects (rather than one sided effects) that target both sides equally (either for good or ill) that take up this hamlet resource, and not any regular resources.

So lets say hamlets produce prayer (arbitrary name here!). Regardless of side, you have access to a few abilities that use "prayer", it doesn't matter which side you are using the AP of, prayer gods/mythics/whatevers affect both sides equally.

I was thinking roughly the same thing, although I was thinking that the special resource should be split between the two sides.

[Teal_Blue]

Regarding hamlets producing resources for players. One thought I had is the possibility of mythical/god tokens with universal effects (rather than one sided effects) that target both sides equally (either for good or ill) that take up this hamlet resource, and not any regular resources.

So lets say hamlets produce prayer (arbitrary name here!). Regardless of side, you have access to a few abilities that use "prayer", it doesn't matter which side you are using the AP of, prayer gods/mythics/whatevers affect both sides equally.

I was thinking roughly the same thing, although I was thinking that the special resource should be split between the two sides.

I thought that X4000 was going to use the 'resource' the Hamlets produce to make Towers for the Great Work Victory Condition, and as a 'Culture' in the Culture Victory Path, which acts as an Enlightenment when the  player has a certain amount of Hamlets achieve that state, producing civilian victories for both conditions.

-Teal

[Teal_Blue]

Firstly, the bandits VS hamlets thing.   Based on the design document here it looks like they'll just smash up stats a bit, yeah?   And of course the player can continue making changes after the bandits are gotten rid of.   What's to prevent it from being an exploit, like an endless target for bandits that can just be regenerated each time?  The scorched earth idea, I believe, was put in for that very sort of reason.  Granted, this one would only relate to the bandits, not to the opposing army, but still.

I was actually thinking about this too.  Maybe have a bandit only spend a turn or two looting a hamlet before moving on.  This might need some experimentation to see what's fun and balanced.

Its a bit early for me to say, with the design of the expansion so early, but from the design document X4000 posted it looks like the Hamlets will be invulnerable to bandit attack, but that the attack will lower the point score, which will have to be raised again somehow. It  looks like he has changed this to 'looting' as you mentioned.

-Teal

[x4000]

Wow, been away for a few days from this thread, apologies.  So many things going on at once, it's just insane.  But lots of progress on a lot of pieces of the design.  Most of the questions I have seen here have already been answered in the document I put up a few days ago: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16y5lsKgd4FYgjBjnS3GprYfwO99kNa6Uj4EBE43vEh8/edit#  So I won't just repeat those.  But some good questions put up in general:

1. Midgard Serpent functionality... that might change, or might not.  Hard to say.  On the one hand, it could be made to just act on building ruins actually in a living town (aka, not stuff valid for a hamlet yet).  On the other hand, I think that this creates an interesting disincentive to use it if you don't want your potential hamlets shrinking.  Right now I think it makes the most sense to leave it as it is, but it could certainly be changed later if needed.

2. In terms of the resource produced by hamlets, yes, I'm figuring it will be for the purposes of some new abilities in the Direct Actions section of the menu.  These will likely be a part of the base game, and trade will produce smaller quantities of this resource.  Possibly some of the abilities will be added only in the expansion, I'm not sure.  Possibly it would be a good idea to have the entire set that you have available to you (for both factions) be randomized per game out of a larger pool.  So yet another source of randomness, which is cool.

3. In terms of the bandits being way too easy to exploit here by them getting distracted... that is a super good point.  Bandits just can't be attacking these or that's not going to end well at all for the general balance of the game.  I've thus revised the document to instead have a "looting" mechanic whereby bandits do not attack or target the hamlet buildings, but instead have a negative effect on a single stat (same as before) if they happen to cross a hamlet building as they move on their merry way to whatever other destination.

[sojourner]

The one change that would make this most interesting to me would be allowing the hamlet buildings to crop up in existing towns. It would make half destroyed towns more interesting, and not just point fodder(at least they end up being such in my games).

[Teal_Blue]

Edited (too long)

  Some quick ideas about alternate victories...

 i am thinking we need to suspend war in the cities or even entirely between the factions when starting one of the alternate victory conditions. In order to give the player a choice and enough time to complete  the victory path.

Using a 'Cancel Negotiations' button if the RNG is minimizing the chances of getting the alternate victory within the turn limit.

Maybe then an 'over-time' turn count could be used? Where the turn count  could 'extend' from 90 to either 120 or 150 or 180 turns?

Or open ended until the player meets one of the victory conditions or loses?

Just some thoughts.

-Teal