Why wrong FOV is not a small issue

[eRe4s3r]

Explained by a proper game art school - one that most AAA developers never visited

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blZUao2jTGA (Part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1XsPYPGcl0 (Part 2)

Coming up again, because of the absolutely terrible Darkness II FOV fiasco

I am cross posting this over various forums so don't be shocked to see it popup elsewhere..

[x4000]

What did Darkness II do?  Have too low of a FOV on a PC port?  I'm not familiar with the game at all.

[eRe4s3r]

Darkness 2 like all bad console ports has a fov below or at 60° that can not be changed and thus makes about 1 in 5 gamers on PC motion sick within 10 minutes, right down to near instant.

[x4000]

Yikes.

[eRe4s3r]

Heh Yeah it should explain why some (probably not enough) people are very vocal about this issue, and "we" the more sensitive to limited FOV people (its a difference in how the brain processes visual feedback) some people are very good at detecting peripheral motion and it makes them LITERALLY SICK when the fov is wrong ^^

I am thinking of creating a website of shame where i just list PC games by developers and their FOV (and whether or not theres issues or not)

Have to think about this for a while... it might become quite popular.. widescreen gaming only cares for the aspect ratio which is only peripherally (hehe) related to the peripheral vision / fov problem

[BobTheJanitor]

Silly console programmers. If they keep trying to hide things from rendering behind narrow FOVs, we'll end up with an FPS where you can only see things in a 15 degree arc and the light falls off to darkness 10 fee in front of your character. But that tiny postage stamp that you can see will be rendered beautifully!

[eRe4s3r]

The thing that baffles me, on consoles there is a logical reason for 60° fov (distance to TV - long controller cables) but on PC, with keyboard and mouse, people sit a LOT closer to the screen and have nowadays also huge screens (21" and above) in this case, a fov of 80 or more is physically REQUIRED.

There is absolutely NO excuse not to make fov an option, its not a preference, not a cheat. Its a physical reality that closer to screen requires higher FOV in the game because the human FOV is fixed.

This is a problem for as long as crappy console ports exist, and Digital Extremes, the makers of Darkness II, Bioshock II, and Homefront. Are like the epitome of ignorance when it comes to this. Their sole goal seems to be to make (some) PC gamers SICK. Out of spite, and fully intentional, because they KNOW this issue exists.

[keith.lamothe]

Out of spite, and fully intentional, because they KNOW this issue exists.

Now now, don't attribute to spite what is fully explained by laziness

[Hearteater]

Or management.

[eRe4s3r]

Maybe I should ask them? ;p I feel like doing this.. 1 cynic deed a year.. and all that.

Gonna write

"Dear Digital Extremes
Why are you constantly trying to make us PC-Gamers sick? We never did anything to you, always loved your games, yet you thank it by locking the FOV of your games to 60° even though any biology student knows that the human eye has a fixed FOV, and as such the closer one gets to the screen the higher the FOV of the game has to be. For consoles a 60° might make sense, but nowadays people actually have PC Screens above 15" (hard to believe, I know) where such zoomed in fov is a physical, real and biological problem.

For 3 games we suffered by your ignorance of the basic principles of human biology and sight, and now you did it again with Darkness II. As if your previous games had not already caused enough nauseous people, you truly topped it this time, many people I've talked to who played your game on a big-screen on the PC got nearly instantly sick. Motion sick, that is. Because you are, with your zoomed in and locked FOV, depriving our brain of a needed visual frame of reference.

I hereby ask you with not a pinch of jest, but with maybe 2 pinches of cynicism to please think of the people who have to clean up after their best friend just got motion sick from playing Darkness II. We PC-Gamers, nah, who I am kidding... I am not a group of gamers, I am a single gamer who got motion sick from playing Darkness II for the SOLE reason that the FOV is way, way too zoomed in. This is not a preference, or a cheat, a properly adapted FOV that takes into account distance of eye to screen, size of screen and aspect ratio is a biological necessity for a small yet very vocal part of your customers. Customers, whom for 3 games (Bioshock II, Homefront, Darkness II) you have tortured intentionally and knowingly, forcing them to devise custom hacks and tools to make your games playable without making the players sick like a fresh sailor on a boat during a storm.

Sincerely,
a severely motion sick Darkness II player. On a 23" screen, on PC.
"

And yes, i am not kidding, gonna send them this 1:1 via their websites contact formula .. tomorrow ;P

[chemical_art]

odd, I've never noticed, nor have I felt sick, playing said games.

[eRe4s3r]

Nothing odd at all, as you would know when watching the vids *hint* this affects only some people, on bluesnews i could find about 4 who got motion sick and that was in a topic with 20 posts.. so yeah

I can assure you, if you had this particular sensibility you would after the 3rd game, be ready to blow things up or set them on fire. Nothing is more aggravating than a game you bought with a locked FOV that makes you sick. Happened to me with Fear 3.

Also only relates to FPS games.

I worded my posts carefully too, but i will make it even more obvious in my message to Digital extremities It only affects, i would guess, about 15% of the gamers and only those who regularly play and work on PC's. Distance head to screen "arms length" large screen that takes at least 70% of your vision, etc.

It sucks nobody really researches this, because.. you know, it isn't really something doctors care about, motion sickness, why some people can't see 3D in Movies with headaches, etc..

[chemical_art]

do not mistake my lack of feeling as disbelief. I too get headaches watching 3D movies.

Unfortunately to me, it relates to my eyes crossing when I get extreme nearsightedness. While it may be possible for 3D to  compensate for this, I must relegate myself to knowing I'm in a minority, so will instead miss out.

I don't feel your pain exactly, but I do understand it a little.

[eRe4s3r]

Well i posted this

Dear Digital Extremes

Why are you constantly trying to make some PC-Gamers sick? We never did anything to you, always loved your games, yet you thank it by locking the FOV of your games even though any biology student knows that the human eye already has a fixed FOV, and as such the closer one gets to the screen the higher the FOV of the game has to be. For consoles a 60° might make sense, but nowadays people actually have PC Screens above 15" (hard to believe, I know) where such zoomed in fov is a physical, real and biological problem for a small yet vocal minority. Just like some people get headache from 3D, a number of people simply CAN NOT play games with a locked FOV, particularly not if these games use the console fov.

For 2 games we suffered by your apparent intentional ignorance of the basic principles of human biology and sight, and now you did it again with Darkness II (Demo). As if your previous games had not already caused enough nauseous people, you truly topped it this time, many people I've talked to who played your game on a big-screen on the PC got nearly instantly sick. Motion sick, that is. Because you are, with your zoomed in and locked FOV, depriving our brain of a proper frame of reference.

I hereby ask you with not a pinch of jest, but with maybe 2 pinches of cynicism to please think of the people who have to clean up after their best friend just got motion sick from playing Darkness II. We PC-Gamers, nah, who I am kidding... I am not a group of gamers, I am a single gamer who got motion sick from playing Darkness II Demo, Bioshock 2, as well as Homefront for the SOLE reason that the FOV is way, way too zoomed in. This is not a preference, or a cheat, a properly adapted FOV that takes into account distance of eye to screen, size of screen and aspect ratio is a biological necessity for a small yet very vocal part of your customers. Customers, whom for 3 games (Bioshock II, Homefront, Darkness II Demo) you have "tortured" intentionally and knowingly, forcing them to devise custom hacks and tools to make your games playable without making the players sick like a fresh sailor on a boat during a storm.

Sincerely,
a severely motion sick Darkness II player. On a 23" screen, on PC.

Ps.: FOV = Field of Vision

Pps.: Should you be interested in learning the principles of field of vision game art schools have a great many courses on them.. here are 2 examples on youtube, explaining why a locked FOV is not just a choice by developers, but bad design.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blZUao2jTGA (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1XsPYPGcl0 (Part 2)

PPps.: Obviously, I don't expect a reply, this was a "someone should write the Developers" kind of dare from a Forum where I, just 20 minutes after the Darkness II Demo released on steam, found 4 people who could not play your game without feeling like they are on a boat, and I took it upon me to ask why you are doing this to us. Should you, despite my firm believe you won't, reply anyway. Then please don't take Insult to the fact that I will repost part or all of the reply as there are a great many pc-gamers wondering.

Who bets I won't get a reply?

And yes, i will post the reply, should there be one ^^

[Volatar]

do not mistake my lack of feeling as disbelief. I too get headaches watching 3D movies.

Unfortunately to me, it relates to my eyes crossing when I get extreme nearsightedness. While it may be possible for 3D to  compensate for this, I must relegate myself to knowing I'm in a minority, so will instead miss out.

I don't feel your pain exactly, but I do understand it a little.

You are not as small a minority as you think. I have a similar problem, though caused by a different issue. One of my eyes is significantly better than the other, so my brain has completely stopped using the lesser eye. I have no depth perception. I cannot see 3D devices. Real life is 2D to me.

My opthamologist said that the quiet minority that can't see 3D movies is so large a minority she is surprised that they are trying to push the technology again due to its economic inviability.