Ubisoft goes completely Insane - Starts new harsh DRM Initiative

[x4000]

I will say, it's certainly helpful to us indies when the big guys do stuff like that.  Makes most of us look much better by comparison.  If everyone was completely thrilled with the AAA offerings, there might not be too much of a niche for indies, after all.

[Echo35]

IMO, with my own knowledge I can say that hackers/crackers/etc. will always find a way to bypass DRM/etc.; what DRM offers is only a minor inconvenience to the hardcore teams--when they release it, it is seen as another achievement and can boast about it.  Distrust fuels this relation.

Server-side games such as MMOs can also be broken--server emulation.


I don't know--generally most software and such scripted to obstruct piracy eventually is cracked and bypassed. 

I have yet to see a system that hasn't been hacked or bypassed. I've even played games weeks before their street dates. All DRM does is piss off the legit customers who now are having a hard time enjoying the game they actually paid for. Piracy is always going to happen, no matter what you do, so you might as well just accept it and make a decent game instead of the mess that most AAA titles are anymore.

[vonduus]

I agree with the opening post: This is insane - the combined result of greed and paranoia. X4k's little dialogue says it all: Ubisoft probably care for their customers, but they certainly care more for their shareholders.

My greatest fear is that they will get away with it. Most people are constantly online anyway, so they won't feel any difference. For people like me, who are on on off, it is a great pain in the xxx (not to mention how a lot of people in eastern europe, who often have sub-standard connections or 'pay-per-view' accounts, will feel towards this move - they are probably the ones who are first out with a cracked version of whatever Ubisoft believes is secure). But I belong to a minority, and the CEOs of the big business world seem to have chosen not to make business with people like me. I am sure gonna boycott all on-line-only singleplayer games, but I don't believe they will even be aware of it. And if their sales should go down they will probably whine and claim that it is because of piracy.

So the only solution is to play AI War Fleet Command and other indie games and to hope that the minority I/we belong to (X4k claims we are at least one million people worldwide) is big enough to keep the decent indies alive and well. And as long as the indies provide good games, no problem.

[deMangler]

S.N.A.F.U.

[HellishFiend]

Regarding the shareholders thing... I think the misconception is that some people think there is a way to transform pirates into customers. While there probably isnt a way to have any solid data on it, I believe that there is likely little or no conversion from pirate to customer thanks to any amount of DRM beyond simple license key/cd checks. If someone cannot afford or is simply unwilling to pay for a game, DRM is not going to change that, since there will always be a way around it. If we can all come to realize that eventually, everyone will be better off.

[deMangler]

Regarding the shareholders thing... I think the misconception is that some people think there is a way to transform pirates into customers. While there probably isnt a way to have any solid data on it, I believe that there is likely little or no conversion from pirate to customer thanks to any amount of DRM beyond simple license key/cd checks. If someone cannot afford or is simply unwilling to pay for a game, DRM is not going to change that, since there will always be a way around it. If we can all come to realize that eventually, everyone will be better off.

Agreed, in fact it seems that the actual effect is to turn customers into pirates because it offends the customer, treats them as if they are dishonest and raises the profile of piracy. I am not the sharpest tool in the box and I can see that.
What is wrong with these peoples ability to link cause and effect?
...Don't get me started......   

[eRe4s3r]

And even more important is that pirates are sometimes customers and sometimes pirates. So how harsh they are abused as customers can actually cause them to be even less of a customer and more a pirate.

Its always a bad idea to generalize something as massive as "pirates" into 1 scheme that fits. Pirates are as random and undefinable as any other group. And then theres the pirates who pirate stuff they bought because the Pirate version is out 6 days before retail (Mass Effect 2 PC) - or 7 days (Mass Effect 2 Xbox360) while steam unlocks are delayed 2 days beyond normal release date in many countries.

I think its wrong to say pirates are not customers, pirates are *always* potential customers but more DRM will probably cause them to NOT become customers.

[x4000]

Here's an interesting exercise: think about how you, personally, would properly manage a large farm product wholesaler.  I am assuming that none of us here know anything about farm product wholesaling, and probably most of us only know a little bit about farming at best.  Now, we're all quite smart and have enough general business sense to critique business folks and CEOs of all sorts of industries, wondering "why don't they get it!?"  It seems like they are morons, right?

But, back to the farm product wholesaling.  If you were put in charge of a huge company in that industry, would you know what to do?  I mean, goal #1 would be to make sure that your company stays in business and is profitable.  And it's good to keep the farmers and the customers as happy as possible, but if anyone is going to lose out it is going to be the farmers, and possibly then the customers, before your own company is going to lose out, right?  With a large company, you can wield that kind of clout based on getting to the point of having that much bulk and power.  So you'd make decisions based on whatever business training you have, and general best practices, and looking out for your own bottom line.

Then, for reasons I can't imagine, probably the customers and the farmers are going to be pissed at you.  Given that you've never been a farmer or a customer of a farm product wholesaler, you probably can't imagine what their specific complaints might be any better than I can.  So you or I would blunder all over the place, pissing everyone off as we did, possibly without even realizing we were blundering.

Okay, it's a strange analogy, but I think it's where this stuff comes from.  Some execs don't realize this sort of thing if they are out of touch with the technology, the motivations for gaming in the first place, and what it is to be a gaming customer.  Other execs know what is what, are true gamers themselves, and forgo the DRM (and often forgo the PC in the process).  Does a company that puts in hugely restrictive DRM have an exec that is a PC gamer, who routinely buys and plays PC games from a variety of publishers?  I have absolutely no idea, and I imagine it varies from case to case, but if I had to bet I know where my money would be.

It doesn't make the company as a whole evil, but I very much understand why it is so frustrating to customers (as it frustrates me, also).  Incidentally, I've never bought a product with excessive DRM or with Starforce or whatever -- just as a personal aside, I've always skipped those products entirely or bought them on consoles.  Not to make a point or anything, but because I simply don't want that crap on my PC.

[eRe4s3r]

Well, as a farming wholesaler..... .. mhh wait. What does a farming wholesaler even do? I have no idea ;p Isn't the question more that people who are "out of touch" are allowed to lead a company at all?

By the way, the only sensible answer to your example would be.. i would never want to join a farming wholesale business. ^^ I hate (all) farms, (most) animals, (all) children and (95%) of all humans. So i should probably never work in any position where i am part of the production chain of human food.  

But that said, even though i understand the reasons that doesn't mean i agree with the situation itself. The problem is, the more you understand about the world and how it really works, the less likely it is you want to live in it. To me this level of realization came when i understood how completely and utterly flawed our current global finance and trade system is and how it can never be "fixed" short of abolishing banks and the stock market. Which of course, won't ever happen.

Edit. Talk about a weird topic change mid-sentence, heh ;p
I read too much lately...

[x4000]

Oh, I think I forgot to explicitly state my point, which was: people who are expert businessmen, or expert in some other industry, don't necessarily make the jump between industries well.  I have seen this first-hand in my own past experiences with small companies, even.  So, certainly, the problem is that too many game companies hire expert businessmen who know nothing about gaming.

On the flip side, the opposite problem is often present where you have people who are expert about gaming, and yet know nothing about business, and so run their business into the ground.  You need a mix of both folks, ideally people who are experts in both.  To run the farm product wholesaler, ideally you want a former farmer with an MBA.  To run a large game company, you want someone with lots of business training but who also actually plays games and understands the culture.  That was the point I meant to make.

[Echo35]

Regarding the shareholders thing... I think the misconception is that some people think there is a way to transform pirates into customers. While there probably isnt a way to have any solid data on it, I believe that there is likely little or no conversion from pirate to customer thanks to any amount of DRM beyond simple license key/cd checks. If someone cannot afford or is simply unwilling to pay for a game, DRM is not going to change that, since there will always be a way around it. If we can all come to realize that eventually, everyone will be better off.

I know I'm an outlier, but believe it or not, I do actually buy games I pirate. In fact, the main reason I pirate games is to see if I like them or not. And in some cases, the lack of DRM or bullsh*t corporate practices is actually a primary reason for purchase. I never pirated AI War, and I bought it right after it came out, so there was hardly any reviews or coverage to speak of. It looked like an interesting game and upon further reading of Chris' business model, I decided to buy it purely off that. And I'm happy I did. I pirated Mass Effect 2 for the sole purpose of playing it early, but I bought it anyway. Same goes for SoulSilver and many other games. There are also games I own with crazy DRM that, despite the fact that I already own them, I pirate anyway, just so I can have a clean, working version with no "you don't actually own this game" crap to deal with. The pirate/anti-pirate cycle is a vicious one, and it has to stop somewhere. As you say, pirates are never going to stop and companies are never going to invent an anti-piracy system that really works, so the sooner they wise up and adopt a better business model, the better it will be for all gamers.

[eRe4s3r]

And Mass Effect 2 was really aggravating because it was 7 days before unlock ;/ I am fairly sure most pirates of that were customers who couldn't wait

[deMangler]

Oh, I think I forgot to explicitly state my point, which was: people who are expert businessmen, or expert in some other industry, don't necessarily make the jump between industries well.  I have seen this first-hand in my own past experiences with small companies, even.  So, certainly, the problem is that too many game companies hire expert businessmen who know nothing about gaming.

On the flip side, the opposite problem is often present where you have people who are expert about gaming, and yet know nothing about business, and so run their business into the ground.  You need a mix of both folks, ideally people who are experts in both.  To run the farm product wholesaler, ideally you want a former farmer with an MBA.  To run a large game company, you want someone with lots of business training but who also actually plays games and understands the culture.  That was the point I meant to make.

Yeah, seen it often. Another thing to remember is that these experts aren't evil (yes really, no! away with the pitchforks already...)
I've been involved in the running of large-ish volunteer organizations and very often 'experts' or professionals with experience and skills would get involved and want to put their experience to good use.
The problem being that their skills don't transfer just-like-that. Volunteer organisations work differently - simply because the workers are volunteering makes a huge difference on how they need to be treated, how the responsibilities are ring-fenced, how operations move from planning to implementation, etc, etc...
Anyway, my point is that they will usually not listen, they have the skills and experience, they are often respected in their fields and because they are not employed and you can't fire them and you do want to make use of their skills, so you just have to step back and let them learn from their mistakes and just do damage limitation until they 'get it'.
The sad thing is that very often by the time they have 'got it' they feel they have done their bit and wander off feeling all philanthropic only to be replaced with some new expert and here we go again.....

How this applies to the whole DRM thing  (eventually) as I see it is that, that the selling of easily reproducible goods is a whole different ball game from what they are used to, and their old approach just doesn't fit the situation. Instead of realising this is the case they are trying to 're-educate' their customers into understanding that their expectations of ownership and so-on are wrong and the experts know best. They have succeeded to some degree as well which is scary. Hopefully they will 'get it' eventually...
Anyway, blah blah....
dM

[Ozymandiaz]

If one look really, really deep into it, DRM's root cause is a result of our monytary system and social structure, as is everything else in our world.

Many people make games only to make money, when money is the prime motivation of a game, you get lots of pompous PR and flashy graphics (they want to sell sell sell!), but shallow gameplay.

Then you look at games that started out with a good idea and concept, where the game and idea is the main motivation. You might not get flashy graphics and tons of silly PR, but you get superb gameplay.

Now, the motivation to make money also spanws such things as DRM, since there is a percived "loss of money" due to "pirates".

This is often detremental to new games and ideas, since the people who really want to enjoy a game is deemed a criminal and punishd for liking it.

If humanity as a whole was to say abolish the monytary system, and move towards a resource based system where all human where provided for with food, drink, housing, health, communication access, all basic needs. Then we could fianlly see nice things start to emerge and people making games for the pleasure of making them, and it could be distributed freely to everyone who wants to play em.


Maybe this is just a "dream world", but the sad thing is humans could pull it off if we got off our asses, we got enough resources on the planet to provide for all of us, and we got the technology to do it. All we really lack is the, I guess, education and understanding that we do, and that it could benefit us all.

I realise something like this may not happen for hunderds of years (cause lets face it, our monetary system and current sosical structure can not last indefinatly). But I can dream

[HellishFiend]

If humanity as a whole was to say abolish the monytary system, and move towards a resource based system where all human where provided for with food, drink, housing, health, communication access, all basic needs. Then we could fianlly see nice things start to emerge and people making games for the pleasure of making them, and it could be distributed freely to everyone who wants to play em.


Maybe this is just a "dream world", but the sad thing is humans could pull it off if we got off our asses, we got enough resources on the planet to provide for all of us, and we got the technology to do it. All we really lack is the, I guess, education and understanding that we do, and that it could benefit us all.

I realise something like this may not happen for hunderds of years (cause lets face it, our monetary system and current sosical structure can not last indefinatly). But I can dream

What you're describing is not very different from Communism. Unfortunately, it is an idealistic system that looked good on paper but has never worked in practice and wound up being exploited by those in power.

Humans are imperfect beings, and as such, we require self gratifying motivation and reward for EVERYTHING we do. That means we need money, and always will. It's of no use to point out exceptions to this rule, either, because you're speaking in very, very broad terms and an exception here and there is no way to support the concept that such a system could ever work for humankind at any point in the foreseeable future.

So yeah, one can dream, but I prefer to be realistic and make the most of the fact that I was lucky enough to be born into a first world country.  It's not a perfect existence, and it shows off a lot of the flaws we possess as a species, but it's still much better than the alternative.