Even when your own fellow persons with disabilities and LGBTQ folks are persecuted- no, have their very lives threatened- you don't see the value of participating because the math you are doing means both candidates cancel each other out. Even when the planet you live on is being threatened, you see it as a wash.
It's like I said: a vote for EITHER side ends up hurting SOMEONE. RIght now with things as they are, those two groups seem to be hurting. If it had been the other side though, it'd just be OTHER groups hurting. There is no option that doesnt lead to pain. None. This, to me, is the very nature of politics; politicians, as a rule, are rather selfish individuals
Two groups? No, far more than two groups. I only gave you the two that you identified with. I completely left out religious minorities, anyone who uses the Internet, immigrants, students, women, our planet/environment, and minorities not enumerated here.
But I would like to know, if Hillary had won, what sort of equal amount of pain would have happened that nullifies voting? I'm genuinely trying to understand why remaining ignorant and not participating is the right answer. You haven't answered why not learning about the world around you and not being educated is a valuable pursuit. Why is it valuable to you to not learn?
In Hitler's Germany, would you have voted? Or would have voting against Hitler also cause pain that would make it a waste to vote? I'm going back to the question of, when do you choose to participate?
I can't imagine four years of this.
EXACTLY. What you said at the top there: Far more than two groups. There's so much that can go wrong in politics, that when you add the very simple and indisputable fact that politicians are greedy and selfish, and that they basically campaign like salesmen (which is effectively what campaigning IS, selling a product, as the very same techniques are used) rather than, again, showing what they really can do for people. I've heard so VERY often now that BOTH candidates were freaking awful. I have no bloody clue WHICH groups would have been hurt under Hillary's rule. It doesn't MATTER which ones: THe fact is, various groups would have been hurt. Perhaps the LGBT and disabled communities wouldn't have... but other groups, not currently hurting, would have simply taken their place. This is the very nature of this system, when it's effectively controlled by greedy salespeople who seek only higher positions and more screen time.
When both options are godawful, I'm not going to select either. Not when simply refusing to choose is an option. It reminds me of, again, another concept associated with sales/marketing (which I'm now going to repeatedly equate to the political election process), which is the concept of "voting with your wallet". Where if you think a company is bad, awful, nasty, you don't buy their product: That's how you show your displeasure to them. And maybe if all the OTHER options in that realm are just as bad... maybe you just get by without that type of product, because you simply don't want to support such nasty, nasty groups doing shady things. This concept has been effectively drilled permanently into my mind: Both from my experiences with the game industry (groups like EA and Activision, who I generally refuse to buy from), and also by my father and stepmother, who know *a lot* about sales and related concepts. To buy something is to support the company selling it... it's a very simple concept. Everyone knows that. But look at what happens when people just keep buying things from bad companies simply because they don't know of any other choices: you get situations like the rampant money-grubbing that affects the gaming industry right now. People REFUSE to simply refrain from purchasing from the big guys, so the big guys just keep doing all the awful stuff they are doing.
I tend to view politics in the same way. A political candidate CANNOT reach a major position without support. It's that simple. The entire system cannot work without support... this is also simple. Considering that the entire system is a corrupted, poisonous mess... I'm not going to support it. Not when I know that ANY vote will hurt someone. I was not raised by my parents to harm people with my choices. Something I've always been taught is that sometimes you need to know when to just walk away from something. There are times to fight, sure, there are times to take action, but sometimes, there's no such thing as the "right" action. In those cases... in other words, THIS case... I walk away. As I said, I help people in other ways. Wether or not you believe this is of course up to you... but it's the simple truth. It's not something I speak of very much, being as negative as I am, but yes, I do things for people when those things really are necessary.
And in those cases where I help, there IS a good option. And so, that's the option I choose. When there is a genuinely good option in a situation, I will not walk away from it, simple as that. I do not like leaving things unfinished, and I also don't like seeing people hurting in a situation where I can DO something (without then hurting an equal number of people, which is all that voting does, in my view).
But in politics? There is no good option. None. Both candidates are poisonous: I don't need deep research to know this. Hell, LOTS of people know this, and I guarantee you that very few voters REALLY research their choices. But to many, both sides were so obviously BAD that it became extremely evident that there was no such thing as a good choice. One of the few things that I do know about politics is that technically, there are more than two parties. For people that feel that both of the main parties are godawful, they often feel like they have this "duty" to still vote anyway, just because "voting is the thing you do". So they'll vote for some third party, who even I know will never, ever win... that's such a very simple fact that even I grasp it easily, in politics. I, personally, do not believe in empty gestures like that. Again, I don't like things that accomplish nothing, which is exactly what happens in that case. Why waste my time? If you were to know me in person, you'd probably see LOTS of examples of this sort of thing... the lack of making empty gestures. For example, I never engage in small talk, because it doesn't DO anything. It's just "a thing you do", and the reason is BECAUSE "it's a thing you do". That's an empty gesture. I just wont do it, as it makes no sense to me. Call it an effect of the autism, perhaps... heck if I know. I just know that it's a personality trait I cannot shake. It's part of why I'm so very, very bad socially and know very few people. Hell, ALOT of what socializing I do actually comes from THIS forum.
Though admittedly that opinion is likely based largely on my belief in open-mindedness and letting others make their own choices and have their own beliefs without treating them worse because of it, as long as those choices and beliefs don't involve any harm to others.
Aye, I agree with this and tend to have the same belief. Hell, the nature of my blasted condition (or whatever word you want to use for autism, any term is fine by me, I just say "condition" because it's easily understood) and also the nature of, well... the LGBT stuff... kinda means that OF COURSE I'm going to see it that way. I like to hope that everyone in this place does as well, really.
Also I think people should try to be a little more relaxed with this, it seems to be getting closer and closer to a hate-fest, you can disagree with someone, but please try to do it in a nice way, rather than condemning them for having a different opinion, this forum is generally a nice place, and I for one would like to see it kept that way.
Ehhh.... I wouldn't say that. I don't see any hate from anyone here and nothing resembling a full-on argument. Like a great many topics in this forum, so far, this is just debate. It seems that we're good at this here. Heck, I get into random debates with people pretty darn frequently (usually over gaming topics, often with Wingflier), but a proper debate is NOT an argument; there's no bad emotions or dislike anywhere... it's just a good old-fashioned debate. They can be very interesting.
However, if this DOES devolve into that at any point, I'll simply slam the topic shut. I really, really doubt it'll go anywhere near that. That sort of thing seriously just never seems to happen here. Yeah, there was that gun topic, but I consider that a total fluke. This is a pretty darn pleasant place really. There aren't any nasty or mean sorts here. Heck, I've not met anyone that I dislike in this place, not even one person, and for me that's pretty rare.