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Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: Wingflier on March 13, 2015, 10:17:33 AM

Title: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Wingflier on March 13, 2015, 10:17:33 AM
http://store.steampowered.com/app/265770/

Check out some of the reviews on this one.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on March 13, 2015, 11:07:16 AM
No, that would be Sid Meier's Starships: http://store.steampowered.com/app/282210/

Oh wait, it's evened out.

But I'm pretty sure there's a worse rated game than that one....just can't think of the name.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: chemical_art on March 13, 2015, 11:37:30 AM
Must be starcraft, there aren't even any stars! (/sarcasm)

More seriously I think of Sword of the Stars II
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on March 13, 2015, 01:58:16 PM
X Rebirth, that's another one that seems to get a lot of hate.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: chemical_art on March 13, 2015, 02:48:29 PM
X Rebirth, that's another one that seems to get a lot of hate.

Ah yes that too. I think both that and SotS2 get so much hate is that because they are not only bad games, but come from games which were very great.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Wingflier on March 14, 2015, 01:29:23 PM
X Rebirth is actually getting a lot of praise since a recent patch apparently. Sid Meyer's Starship was bad but I found some positive reviews. I can't find a single positive review for the one I posted. Actually I don't know another game on Steam that's rated that badly lol.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: WingedKagouti on March 14, 2015, 02:07:44 PM
The most positive words I've heard about Master of Orion 3 is that the engine isn't broken and there are mods that make it a not so terrible experience to play.

The only reason that game didn't fall into obscurity is the name.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 14, 2015, 06:05:16 PM
I actually quite liked MoO3, and never got into the firs two parts. But I also started out with the third, so my experience is probably fundamentally different.

Star Drive is a nomination of mine, along with Distant Worlds.
But honestly now - there is such a tremendously, mountainously large pile of bad space games, it's very much harder to find a truly good one than to stumble into puddles of bad ones.

Edit: I just vomited up some pieces of Endless Space. F?ck that sh!t.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Cyborg on March 14, 2015, 06:53:26 PM
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1173375/images/o-ATARI-LANDFILL-facebook.jpg)


Thread over.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Aklyon on March 14, 2015, 06:59:56 PM
But was that actually a space game? :P
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: chemical_art on March 14, 2015, 07:23:33 PM
...along with Distant Worlds...


What didn't you like about it?

(There IS a lot to not like, just curious which specifically you didn't.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 14, 2015, 08:16:33 PM
X Rebirth, that's another one that seems to get a lot of hate.

Ah yes that too. I think both that and SotS2 get so much hate is that because they are not only bad games, but come from games which were very great.

No SOTS2 gets the hate because the devs dropped it like a rock and scammed everyone when they offered refunds for a very limited period of time but promised they will patch the game to greatness and reward people that don't ask for refund, only to a month later drop support for the game entirely. People have not forgotten. I sure haven't.

Rebirth on the other hand will never be a good X game. But if you do a mindwipe it is in it's half-assed state barely acceptable ;)

Can't talk about Sid Meiers Space ships, but Beyond Earth was already bad, and so it doesn't surprise me Sid Meier lost touch completely as to what actually makes a game good. Or maybe his name is only attached to get sales.. After CIV BE and Starships SID MEIER name is likely tainted ;/
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: doctorfrog on March 15, 2015, 01:31:43 AM
Sid Meier's Starships as a title sure sounds like a return to form, something inventive, fun, maybe slightly brilliant, and ultimately approachable. I pictured designing star ships from the ground up, sending them out, conducting fun but intricately balanced battles.

But no, it's basically a dull amalgam of everything Firaxis did for the last 15 years.

On the other hand, I'm now going to fire up Weird Worlds: Return to Infinite Space.

To contribute a scorn-title, Dark Star One got a lot of hate for promising to revolutionize the universe and being merely decent and bland. Least, that's what I could tell since the copy I bought wouldn't run on my machine back then.

(https://i.imgur.com/qTDvChc.png)
from: http://www.gog.com/game/darkstar_one

Beware of any review that starts out "we ____ gamers/enthusiasts," of course.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 15, 2015, 03:22:24 AM
Star Drive is a nomination of mine, along with Distant Worlds.


Hm, I'd heard that Distant Worlds: Universe was actually pretty good... is there some aspect of it that ended up being a problem?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 15, 2015, 09:45:48 AM
I might be about to step into that same old beehive again, so tell my family I love them if I don't make it out alive this time.

I really really don't like Distant Worlds. I tried hard to like it since there are some good ideas behind it (free market economy, non-involvement by the government, and above all the very important outsource-whatever-you-like-to-the-AI, which every game should have), but almost all other aspects and the execution are thoroughly off-putting to me.
It's been a year since I last touched it, so I won't be going into all the details.

Combat: All around horrible. Could just as well not exist or be entirely abstracted.
Writing: Clichés. Nothing but. I don't know whether it's laziness or aggressive, laborious intent to bore. Includes the races - sh!te.
Economy: Good idea, but the execution makes no economic or even logical sense.
Visuals: Ugly. And a suprisingly resource-intensive kind of ugly that won't even run on my notebook. Impressive for a 2D game.
Treatment of space: It could just as well not be set in space. Space is meaningless to the game.
AI: Unusually for games this large, it can actually handle all areas of the game. Sadly, it's not at all good at it.
Gameyness: Again, clichés lifted straight from any other game. Calling it GalCiv - Free Market Edition would not be far off.

Argh. I can't think straight about it.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: chemical_art on March 16, 2015, 09:11:55 PM
I might be about to step into that same old beehive again, so tell my family I love them if I don't make it out alive this time.

I really really don't like Distant Worlds. I tried hard to like it since there are some good ideas behind it (free market economy, non-involvement by the government, and above all the very important outsource-whatever-you-like-to-the-AI, which every game should have), but almost all other aspects and the execution are thoroughly off-putting to me.
It's been a year since I last touched it, so I won't be going into all the details.

Combat: All around horrible. Could just as well not exist or be entirely abstracted.
Writing: Clichés. Nothing but. I don't know whether it's laziness or aggressive, laborious intent to bore. Includes the races - sh!te.
Economy: Good idea, but the execution makes no economic or even logical sense.
Visuals: Ugly. And a suprisingly resource-intensive kind of ugly that won't even run on my notebook. Impressive for a 2D game.
Treatment of space: It could just as well not be set in space. Space is meaningless to the game.
AI: Unusually for games this large, it can actually handle all areas of the game. Sadly, it's not at all good at it.
Gameyness: Again, clichés lifted straight from any other game. Calling it GalCiv - Free Market Edition would not be far off.

Argh. I can't think straight about it.

All your complaints are very valid! No need to worry about being vaped.

Yes, indeed I can see you points. The game is unique is just how "hands-off" the galactic state  is. But the hands off portion is not fine tuned, to be sure. A very valid negative. The game tries to simulate (one way or another) just how difficult one person can manage a galactic empire. A fan of the macro might think: Finally! Something to show how inefficient this is! A micro fan will think: Darn it! Just how inefficient this is!
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 17, 2015, 03:46:41 AM
*slowly backs off and wipes Distant Worlds from his wishlist*


I might've...just hoped for a good game :/
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 17, 2015, 04:56:17 AM
Next entries in the bad games list:

Star Ruler
Star Ruler was promising to the point where I made the mistake of buying it without testing it first. I was extremely p!ssed with the game at first, because many vital systems seemed to be simply missing. It got a little better later on, but most of the post-release work was actually done by modders - who couldn't, sadly, put in the still missing core systems.
Star Ruler 2 is currently in the works, and it appears to become a glossier, very much dumbed-down affair with a lot of magical technobabble cop-outs thrown in for dat cardboard flavour.

Stellar Impact
The first MOBA I played, back when I didn't know there was such a genre. Quite tactically interesting due to the wetwater-navy-like movement and the limited arcs of fire on the ships, but sadly lacking in every other department - very ugly visual style, tons of overused gaming staples (many of the same that make me want to vomit at the sight of any and all MOBA specimen nowadays), crappy communication between devs and community, no spaciness whatsoever. It died out quickly.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 17, 2015, 10:01:45 AM
I might be about to step into that same old beehive again, so tell my family I love them if I don't make it out alive this time.

I really really don't like Distant Worlds. I tried hard to like it since there are some good ideas behind it (free market economy, non-involvement by the government, and above all the very important outsource-whatever-you-like-to-the-AI, which every game should have), but almost all other aspects and the execution are thoroughly off-putting to me.
It's been a year since I last touched it, so I won't be going into all the details.

Combat: All around horrible. Could just as well not exist or be entirely abstracted.
Writing: Clichés. Nothing but. I don't know whether it's laziness or aggressive, laborious intent to bore. Includes the races - sh!te.
Economy: Good idea, but the execution makes no economic or even logical sense.
Visuals: Ugly. And a suprisingly resource-intensive kind of ugly that won't even run on my notebook. Impressive for a 2D game.
Treatment of space: It could just as well not be set in space. Space is meaningless to the game.
AI: Unusually for games this large, it can actually handle all areas of the game. Sadly, it's not at all good at it.
Gameyness: Again, clichés lifted straight from any other game. Calling it GalCiv - Free Market Edition would not be far off.

Argh. I can't think straight about it.

...wow.  That's one of the most scathing opinions of a game I've seen on this forum from anyone that isnt me.

So.... a fair amount of.... dislike for this one then, is the impression I'm getting.


Hm, there should almost be a topic for GOOD space games as well.  Finding good ones really is kinda hard, isnt it?  I know of Elite: Dangerous, which I got recently and which is really good so far, and then there's.... uhhhh.... Arcen's stuff.   No, seriously, I cant currently think of anything else...  Well, okay, I could technically list about 10 bazillion shmups that take place in space and are good, but I dont think that'd count for the purposes of this discussion.

I can think of a number of games that SEEMED good and turned out to be kinda crap (Endless Space, Planetary Annihilation), though some are debatable of course.  Mostly though... yeah, I cant think of any. 

Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: WingedKagouti on March 17, 2015, 10:36:12 AM
Hm, there should almost be a topic for GOOD space games as well.  Finding good ones really is kinda hard, isnt it?
Try diving into the ones that are regarded as classics: Master of Orion, Master of Orion 2, Homeworld, Homeworld 2, Elite (the original), Wing Commander (most of the series), Star Control 1-3
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Aklyon on March 17, 2015, 11:03:28 AM
I thought people didn't like Star Control 3?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 17, 2015, 01:01:48 PM
...wow.  That's one of the most scathing opinions of a game I've seen on this forum from anyone that isnt me.
Hey, at least there are SOME positive things to be said about the game. In theory, at least.

There are even worse examples - Endless Space, to me, has no redeeming features whatsoever. I paid money for it, and would ten times as much just for the devs to stop making games. They make some of the most overhyped, unjustly praised games of our times, IMO.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Toranth on March 17, 2015, 04:19:26 PM
...wow.  That's one of the most scathing opinions of a game I've seen on this forum from anyone that isnt me.
Hey, at least there are SOME positive things to be said about the game. In theory, at least.

There are even worse examples - Endless Space, to me, has no redeeming features whatsoever. I paid money for it, and would ten times as much just for the devs to stop making games. They make some of the most overhyped, unjustly praised games of our times, IMO.
I actually think Distant Worlds is one of the better space 4x games out there today.  If you notice, many of your problems are with the feel of the game - and it is pretty thematically shallow and derivative.
Personally, I had huge problems with the interface and the AI, especially the economy "Anti-micromanagement" AI.  I spent too much time either cheesing the AI for better performance, or fighting it to get it to do something not completely stupid.  Like when a fleet of Freighters steals all the fuel right before my fleet gets there...

If you're willing to spend a lot of time on the Distant World forums to learn all the tips and tricks before playing more than the tutorial, and if you're willing to play a slow game with a fair amount of deep-menu-delving, and the cliché artwork and themes don't bother you - than Distant Worlds is a good choice.


Nothing will make Endless Space a good choice, though.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 17, 2015, 05:09:50 PM
Imo if a space 4x game manages to make space sci-fi feel GENERIC then that is a special kind of messed up.  And so I have to kinda agree with people here, plenty of bad space games. Sure we might fall into nostalgia and mention MOO2 but MOO2 is very limited in gameplay even for a 4X (at least for my tastes nowadays) so it is unique but it is only very little there. The imo only decent "Space" game is freelancer, though more could have been done with that idea, at least someone tried. Best space RTS kinda Homeworld cataclysm/HW2 and Nexus....

Space RPG? Mass Effect.. and oh boy, that's the only one that even exists. How sad is that. not a single RPG that portrays sci-fi in space except Mass Effect. (Or does anyone know any other comparable game?)

Many games are simply lacking flavor, something that puts them apart. Spaceships are just graphics, the question is does a space game offer more or different experiences than any other? And often the answer is "no"

Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: WingedKagouti on March 17, 2015, 05:42:54 PM
Space RPG? Mass Effect.. and oh boy, that's the only one that even exists. How sad is that. not a single RPG that portrays sci-fi in space except Mass Effect. (Or does anyone know any other comparable game?)

Many games are simply lacking flavor, something that puts them apart. Spaceships are just graphics, the question is does a space game offer more or different experiences than any other? And often the answer is "no"
If you count something like Mass Effect as a space game, then you should also count Anachronox. Horrible combat system that takes all the worst parts of jRPG combat and fuses them into an uninteresting mess (that gets slightly better once you unlock the final bits of the "special powers" system). Fetch quests that have you running around trying to figure out who to speak to. Graphics and an interface that quite clearly speak of min/late 90's fumbling around with what was new technology at the time.

What sets it apart, and the only reasons I have ever completed it, are the story, setting and characters. Characters with motivations and personalities that don't feel like someone just went through a checklist of "Protagonist", "Love interest", "Sidekick", etc. The basic plot is fairly standard "unlikely heroes band together to save the day", but the way the player (and characters) learn about things and general progression of the story makes it worth at least experiencing once. The setting has many fairly unique elements and there are plenty of interesting bits hidden everywhere. The game does have a good amount of humor in it, whether you like that is quite subjective, but for me most of it was good.

Also, one of the party members is an actual planet.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Captain Jack on March 17, 2015, 07:47:46 PM
Space RPG? Mass Effect.. and oh boy, that's the only one that even exists

Haha oh wow. Excuse me, I feel the need to carpet photobomb this thread.  I see Anachronox was already mentioned, I won't repeat the recommendation. Yes I will: It's great.

As a reminder, these are GOOD space RPGs:

(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060603062220/starwars/images/d/d9/Kotoriibox.jpg)
With mods. First one's finished, this one is smarter.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Star_Control_II_cover.jpg/256px-Star_Control_II_cover.jpg)
Yes Star Control 2 is an RPG even without a level up system.

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Z1-EFLuF--/avrsp3f4xujzzwwujxji.jpg)
And before anyone gets clever, JRPGs are fine.

(http://www.gamefabrique.com/bigimages/phantasy-star-4.jpg)
See previous.

(http://86bb71d19d3bcb79effc-d9e6924a0395cb1b5b9f03b7640d26eb.r91.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/infinite-space-box-artwork.jpg)
I only exaggerate slightly when I call this the single greatest space RPG ever made. It's clever, is science fiction instead of science fantasy, lets you customize spaceships, has branching paths that affect the plot, is dramatic without being melodramatic and is great. And yeah it was by Platinum and on the DS. Here, read the review (http://www.1up.com/reviews/infinite-space-review), buy it on Amazon.

And I suppose if you actually want something in the vein of Mass Effect there Xenoblade Chronicles X (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvpNXhzscjQ), with the caveat that it has a 95% chance of involving actual deicide because it's a Takahashi game.

Bonus round:

(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100114082017/megamitensei/images/0/05/SMT_Strange_Journey_Cast.PNG)
It's not set in space, but SMT Strange Journey has an aesthetic right out of the Rocketeer and might as well be on a different planet.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Aklyon on March 17, 2015, 08:06:58 PM
Wasn't Infinite Space that one DS game with REALLY LOUD SOUND EFFECTS and no music options to speak of? Didn't finish it because of that if it was.

As for SMT Strange Journey, its more of an Etrian odyssey-like game with SMT style/difficulty later. Certainly is more sci-fi than usual as far as I know of the series though.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Captain Jack on March 17, 2015, 08:18:18 PM
Wasn't Infinite Space that one DS game with REALLY LOUD SOUND EFFECTS and no music options to speak of? Didn't finish it because of that if it was.
That's the one. I used headphones.

As for SMT Strange Journey, its more of an Etrian odyssey-like game with SMT style/difficulty later. Certainly is more sci-fi than usual as far as I know of the series though.
Most SMT is science fiction via cyberpunk. Persona is a spin-off that ditched that, other spinoffs have more or less. Devil Survivor has less, Soul Hackers has more, and Digital Devil Saga mixes science fiction with transcendent Hinduism.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 17, 2015, 11:48:21 PM
Space RPG? Mass Effect.. and oh boy, that's the only one that even exists

Haha oh wow. Excuse me, I feel the need to carpet photobomb this thread.  I see Anachronox was already mentioned, I won't repeat the recommendation. Yes I will: It's great.

As a reminder, these are GOOD space RPGs:

Kotor1/2 is definitely a space RPG, and I admit my folly! Whoops ;) And to think I just played that 3 days ago.

As for the others, I sadly don't own a Wii.. WiiU nor a DS so never played any of them. But I did play Star Ocean 2.. and forgot all about that ;)

But Anachronox ends on a cliffhanger that literally never resolved ^^ I did enjoy Kotor 1 and 2
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 18, 2015, 04:26:12 AM
...wow.  That's one of the most scathing opinions of a game I've seen on this forum from anyone that isnt me.
Hey, at least there are SOME positive things to be said about the game. In theory, at least.

There are even worse examples - Endless Space, to me, has no redeeming features whatsoever. I paid money for it, and would ten times as much just for the devs to stop making games. They make some of the most overhyped, unjustly praised games of our times, IMO.
It's...pretty?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 18, 2015, 04:27:21 AM
Wait...Mass Effect is considered an RPG? I've always seen it as a story-driven cover shooter.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 18, 2015, 05:46:59 AM
It's...pretty?
No it isn't. It has many polygons and pixels and visual effects and colours and whatnot, but it is not pretty. Technologically up-to-date maybe, but the design sucks hard - everything is taken from Cliché. Boxy robot race ships, swarming insectoids, a bird race that makes its ships look like birds...and the humans just get everything from W40k. No accomplishments there.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Histidine on March 18, 2015, 07:48:53 AM
Infinite Space definitely was a great game, for all its limitations (DS small screen cramps the UI; some balance issues; a couple of Guide Dang It death points; left-field ending; some generally unclear stuff). If there was a PC remake I would be a happy man.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 18, 2015, 09:22:29 AM
Wait...Mass Effect is considered an RPG? I've always seen it as a story-driven cover shooter.

Yep.   It's considered an RPG.

To me, that says that the RPG genre has kinda fallen.  Down 13 flights of stairs.  Into some mud at the bottom.  Which has bees swarming over it.

Cant exactly say I'm a fan of that game.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: chemical_art on March 18, 2015, 09:29:50 AM
While I consider writing to be nice, I place gameplay as my first concern, even among RPG's.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 18, 2015, 09:52:35 AM
Wait...Mass Effect is considered an RPG? I've always seen it as a story-driven cover shooter.

Yep.   It's considered an RPG.

To me, that says that the RPG genre has kinda fallen.  Down 13 flights of stairs.  Into some mud at the bottom.  Which has bees swarming over it.

Cant exactly say I'm a fan of that game.
ME 1 was pretty good. A bit hamfisted writing and awkward gameplay. ME2 was pretty much a masterpiece in my mind, but hardly an RPG. But as a story-driven covershooter? Yea! ME 3 was nice. Repetitive gameplay but better writing. SHITTY end :P
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 18, 2015, 07:56:24 PM
I think if anything it just shows that I place a slightly different value on story/immersion than gameplay. The gameplay was really bad in ME 1  through 3.. but story, character development and immersion were top notch. If you look at 1 through 3 as a whole.

Ending was meh, but at least it was one. Lots of RPG's don't have proper endings.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on March 18, 2015, 08:32:55 PM
Wait...Mass Effect is considered an RPG? I've always seen it as a story-driven cover shooter.

Yep.   It's considered an RPG.

To me, that says that the RPG genre has kinda fallen.  Down 13 flights of stairs.  Into some mud at the bottom.  Which has bees swarming over it.

Cant exactly say I'm a fan of that game.
Hard to disagree with you on these comments. I recently played The Witcher 2 RPG that's supposed to be a pinnacle of the genre. Yeah....that's not a good sign if that's true.

I'm still writing my thoughts on the review but it's about 50/50 on positive/negative.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on March 18, 2015, 08:34:53 PM
Wait...Mass Effect is considered an RPG? I've always seen it as a story-driven cover shooter.

Hmm...technically it's an RPG but I'd say it's one of the lightest RPGs I've seen from AAA devs.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Zebeast46 on March 18, 2015, 09:54:44 PM
Heard from so many people that skyrim was amazing, got it and was so badly disappointed I forgot about it after 8 hours. As a veteran of Mount and blade warband (over 350 hours) I was combletely disappointed in the gameplay (i mean, when you hit a half naked guy with a giant hammer you expect him to stumble a bit). The writing was great, but after a bunch of quests I realised that nothing I did changed the world in any shape or form (that's a lie, it only changes slightly from your actions on major quests and not at all on minor quests).

I know alot of people here like rpg's and Skyrim, but after getting bored of it I decided not to play another rpg because apparently the pinnacle of the genre is boring to me.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 18, 2015, 11:16:34 PM
There is generally a large rift between RPG's that give you tons of freedom (Skyrim, Fallout 3/NV) and RPG's that give a guided path with some branches (Witcher, Mass Effect, Dragon Age)

But if you didn't like either of those games then RPG's are generally not for you ;) There are games that are in-between both, guided path with some freedoms, Torment, BG/IWD/NWN* (at least some campaigns) so maybe one could call that the "balanced" approach, but at the end of days I've seen people call Divinity Original Sin a good RPG, and then I have to REALLY cringe. (imo has some of the worst writing since... NWN main campaign)

To me, an RPG's defining points are writing, character *growth*, general dialog, character writing (Ie, backstory, personality) and choices, party interactions and related consequences of all these elements. And going by that all the games mentioned are RPG's, but only few of them are actually any good. And saying that Mass Effect for example, just reiterates established Sci-FI tropes is unfair, no game before or after ever did that with such polish. And the sign of a AAA game is not innovation, but polishing an idea so much that it becomes a big budget game.

And you shouldn't forget that you can be judging Mass Effect now years after it concluded, when Mass Effect 1 came out, that was an absolutely fresh experience.


Last point, there are always some people that do not seem to be able to immerse themselves completely into a story and world, for those both Skyrim and Mass Effect must be the worst games ever ;)


Ps.: Infinite Space runs nicely on desmume with mouse and keyboard, hah. Played it a bit but seems very very repetitive. Not a huge fan of this combat system ;)
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Coppermantis on March 19, 2015, 12:37:19 AM
Yeah, a lot of modern RPGs have been de-emphasizing stuff like character stats and things like that, which is disappointing, but I still enjoy a lot of them. The Witcher series, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect are all very fun and are still decent RPGs in my opinion because they do give you a chance to roleplay a character, which, as far as I'm concerned, should be the only standard for what an RPG is. Some people insist that you need to have a ton of party/character stats like in traditional tabletop RPGs, but I don't think that's the case. ME2 and 3 had pretty bare-bones stats systems, but are still RPGs in my mind despite some claims.


That said, I am disappointed in how a lot of stats are being streamlined. Take Dragon Age: Inquisition. I greatly enjoyed that game, but playing it after Origins I was disappointed in the removal of herbalism, trapping, and especially speechcraft skills. Those aren't necessary to make a good RPG, but I enjoy having them to give more depth to building my character. I like having a Speechcraft skill because I enjoy being able to solve problems without violence, like is frequently possible in Fallout and DA:O, for instance.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 19, 2015, 01:03:34 AM

To me, an RPG's defining points are writing, character *growth*, general dialog, character writing (Ie, backstory, personality) and choices, party interactions and related consequences of all these elements.

This, I think, is a perfect example of why I loathe the RPG genre so much.

I dont play games to watch the game.  I dont play games to read the game either.  I play games... TO PLAY THE DAMN GAMES.  I expect good gameplay to take the forefront over.... absolutely every other conceivable concept that may be a part of the game, with not even one tiny exception EVER.  The moment when something starts to overtake that is, to me, the moment when things start to go horribly wrong.

As such, RPGs bore me absolutely to death.  And they're almost always EASY, too.  Though I admit that my idea of difficulty may be a little... warped.  But still.

I've never once seen a compelling arguement as to why I should ever choose playing an RPG (which, more often than not, tend to have bad storylines/writing/everything to begin with) over reading a book (where the entire point of their existence IS stories and such) when I feel like enjoying a good story.

The "role playing" aspect in particular I dont get.  I see something like Mass Effect being played, and.... that's not role-playing to me.  It gives a canned selection of dialog options at each juncture..... almost none of which I would ever actually say, in most cases, but the game forces the choice of one anyway.  Even if my ACTUAL choice would be "Stop talking already, I get the point.  Let's just get to this big thing we gotta do and get it done now, yeah?", or in some cases, simply kicking someone and then wandering off.    Even as not fond of story stuffs in games as I am, I'd take the pre-written stuff without choices over that any day.

Ugh.  I'll never understand those, or things like, well, any AAA game or things like that these days.  Just.... bah. 
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Coppermantis on March 19, 2015, 01:30:33 AM
If that's how you like games, that's fine. In a lot of cases, I'm quite the opposite--it takes a good story to really get me engaged with the game. Stuff like, say, One Finger Death Punch are quite fun, but I usually don't come back very often after I've had my fun, though I still will pick one up from time to time if I just need a quick dose of fun. I like an engaging story just as much as I like engaging gameplay.

Of course, games meet with varying degrees of success when it comes to telling a good story. Yeah, if you want a story, there's always books as you say, but I don't think that precludes a game having a good storyline. A lot of games don't, but I don't think it's true that no games tell as good of stories as novels do. Matter of opinion there.

Plus, for me, experiencing a story through a game is different from a book. There's music, which, if used properly, can augment any given scene, visuals and such, and a different sort of pacing than you'd find in a movie or a book. Your choices having an effect on the story (where it actually happens, not like Skyrim where what you do is basically irrelevant) can make events more powerful too since you have a stake in what happens.

If you don't think any games have successfully accomplished this, then fine. I just disagree. I've read a lot of books and written a novel myself, and I certainly understand what you mean when you say that books are better at telling a deep story because the author generally gets more creative freedom, but playing a story-based game does provide a different experience and I don't think it's any less enjoyable. Just because someone else has told a better story somewhere else doesn't mean that another story isn't worth reading.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Captain Jack on March 19, 2015, 02:13:18 AM
It's funny you say that Misery, considering just how many times Mass Effect lets you tell the plot to sod off and let you get back to playing.

I'd actually recommend you Star Control 2. It's a tragic dead branch for how RPGs could have developed, but it seems like it'd be more your thing. This is a serious suggestion by the by since it seems you're more irritated with AAA "standards" (note sarcasm) than RPGs.

saying that Mass Effect for example, just reiterates established Sci-FI tropes is unfair, no game before or after ever did that with such polish.

Wat. No. This isn't true at all. Star Control 2 came out in 199-freaking-2 and does science fiction miles better. Mass Effect's science fiction was clumsily wrapped around Bioware's "go to four places and then a fifth for the final boss" plot. Now production values? You're absolutely right, and I say that as someone who likes Mass Effect.

And the sign of a AAA game is not innovation, but polishing an idea so much that it becomes a big budget game.

And you shouldn't forget that you can be judging Mass Effect now years after it concluded, when Mass Effect 1 came out, that was an absolutely fresh experience.
Sorry if it seems like I'm beating on you, but the sign of a AAA game is marketing dollars. Spore and Sim City 5 were AAA games. Were they polished? On no one's planet. And it's absolutely fair to judge Mass Effect now, people still play it now. Good game design is timeless,  which is why people fall in love with games made before they were born.

(Also if you think the IS is repetitive now just wait until you get fighters. Ridiculously overpowered. Still, even if it never quite gets past rock-paper-scissors+chicken, I actually found later combat exciting.)

Heard from so many people that skyrim was amazing, got it and was so badly disappointed I forgot about it after 8 hours. As a veteran of Mount and blade warband (over 350 hours) I was combletely disappointed in the gameplay (i mean, when you hit a half naked guy with a giant hammer you expect him to stumble a bit). The writing was great, but after a bunch of quests I realised that nothing I did changed the world in any shape or form (that's a lie, it only changes slightly from your actions on major quests and not at all on minor quests).

I know alot of people here like rpg's and Skyrim, but after getting bored of it I decided not to play another rpg because apparently the pinnacle of the genre is boring to me.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the people who told you that don't play many RPGs. Skyrim's the pinnacle of cool locales to superficially interact with, but not RPGs. And were you joking about liking Skyrim's writing? I can't tell, but in my opinion it was a big step away from good writing. Pretty bombastic though.

If what you specifically want is tactile feedback I suggest Dwarf Fortress. Even shooters don't model realistic impacts until death-ragdolling.

Fake edit: Coppermantis, you've said exactly what I feel about videogames, better than I could. I wouldn't say that Misery doesn't like stories in videogames so much as for him, the story is his relationship with the game's systems. Anything that hinders that relationship, like a critical path, ruins the story.

I won't ever agree with that way of looking at it since I have far too much affection for my clumsily written game stories, but just imagine if every game's story felt like Heavy Rain. Blech.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 19, 2015, 02:55:30 AM
saying that Mass Effect for example, just reiterates established Sci-FI tropes is unfair, no game before or after ever did that with such polish.

Wat. No. This isn't true at all. Star Control 2 came out in 199-freaking-2 and does science fiction miles better. Mass Effect's science fiction was clumsily wrapped around Bioware's "go to four places and then a fifth for the final boss" plot. Now production values? You're absolutely right, and I say that as someone who likes Mass Effect.

But you can't compare those 2 games like that imo. One is an adventure/shoot-em up the other is an RPG with 3rd person combat. At first glance you might compare them as space related sci-fi games, and there I would even agree that Star Control 2 had more interesting.. well, stuff happening. But these 2 games tingle completely different urges for me. Star Control 2 was a game about exploration and survival. Mass Effect was for me always a game about Characters, Party members and the Reapers. (Even though you don't actually ever fight them in ME2 they remain an overarching plot element). That they gameified the progression is thanks to the game coming to consoles (Where that is sadly a thing for AAA titles that needs tons of sales) and is of course a weakness, but all things considered Mass Effect is one of 3 games where I still remember the plot, all the party members and everything major happening. ;) Playing through 3 Games means a lot of investment in a game world and story, after all.

And the sign of a AAA game is not innovation, but polishing an idea so much that it becomes a big budget game.

And you shouldn't forget that you can be judging Mass Effect now years after it concluded, when Mass Effect 1 came out, that was an absolutely fresh experience.

Sorry if it seems like I'm beating on you, but the sign of a AAA game is marketing dollars. Spore and Sim City 5 were AAA games. Were they polished? On no one's planet. And it's absolutely fair to judge Mass Effect now, people still play it now. Good game design is timeless,  which is why people fall in love with games made before they were born.

(Also if you think the IS is repetitive now just wait until you get fighters. Ridiculously overpowered. Still, even if it never quite gets past rock-paper-scissors+chicken, I actually found later combat exciting.)

You needn't worry ,) I do not ever get angry over someone leading a discussion with me ^^

Well part of AAA titles is marketing, but the other part is that it has to appeal to the masses :) And that always leads to certain things that are in these games. Sim City 5 and Spore are good examples of what it means when you apply AAA standards to games that should NEVER have had them. Spore and Sim City 5 also are good examples for what a horrible mistake dumbing down gameplay and themes for the goal of appealing to casual audiences can be.

It must be repeated that to me gameplay is not always paramount. I love playing Visual Novels more than I love a game that's pure gameplay. Though I do like simulations. But if you put me in front of Star Control 2 and Mass Effect assuming I hadn't played either, my first game would always be the one that draws me into a self-contained immersing story and world with interesting party members and dialogs.

It's interesting that some people consider story in games like books. To me that are 2 completely different things. A book (and I have read about as many as I played games ,p) involves my own fantasy, it immerses me in my own fantasy based on text. But games show me a fantasy and immerse me into that, leaving me mental capacity to listen to voice actors look at pretty things and shoot things. And make decisions in game that do in fact often lead to tiny differences ;) Renegade and Paragon playthroughs are pretty different, not VERY different, but enough to feel like 2 different stories.



Final note: This topic perfectly illustrates why devs are well advised to know their target audience. Sim City 5 was a mess not because it had lots of cash, but because they wanted to draw in new players, not fans of Sim City 1234 ;p Cities Skylines is the opposite, taking all that was good from Sim City 5 and applying it to a game that is more like Sim City 1234. That also makes it substantially easier (Sim City 5, despite being marketed to casual audiences, was a very difficult game because of the traffic and agent based simulation which lead to TONS of problems that players had to adapt to).

And personally I wish more games like Mass Effect would exist. And when I say Mass Effect is UNIQUE then I mean it in that sense that no other sci-fi game satisfied these particular needs and wants for me. Star Control 2 was fun, until I played it through. But I remember literally NOTHING of it. Mass Effect I played through twice each game, and I remember every major plot point in that, including names of characters (Which I am notoriously bad at usually). Only other game that compares to ME1/2/3 is BG1/2/TOB .. at least for me ;)


And regarding IS
Maybe it gets better when I get fighters, but currently I am at that point where you unlock the pirate destroyers... ;p
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 19, 2015, 05:35:39 AM
Eraser, I'm going to have to disagree a bit with the Simcity/Skylines comparison. Skylines is also, to a much more sensible degree, using agents. All citizens are actual agents in Skylines, whereas water, power and pollution are not.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 19, 2015, 05:43:51 AM
If that's how you like games, that's fine. In a lot of cases, I'm quite the opposite--it takes a good story to really get me engaged with the game. Stuff like, say, One Finger Death Punch are quite fun, but I usually don't come back very often after I've had my fun, though I still will pick one up from time to time if I just need a quick dose of fun. I like an engaging story just as much as I like engaging gameplay.

Of course, games meet with varying degrees of success when it comes to telling a good story. Yeah, if you want a story, there's always books as you say, but I don't think that precludes a game having a good storyline. A lot of games don't, but I don't think it's true that no games tell as good of stories as novels do. Matter of opinion there.

Plus, for me, experiencing a story through a game is different from a book. There's music, which, if used properly, can augment any given scene, visuals and such, and a different sort of pacing than you'd find in a movie or a book. Your choices having an effect on the story (where it actually happens, not like Skyrim where what you do is basically irrelevant) can make events more powerful too since you have a stake in what happens.

If you don't think any games have successfully accomplished this, then fine. I just disagree. I've read a lot of books and written a novel myself, and I certainly understand what you mean when you say that books are better at telling a deep story because the author generally gets more creative freedom, but playing a story-based game does provide a different experience and I don't think it's any less enjoyable. Just because someone else has told a better story somewhere else doesn't mean that another story isn't worth reading.

It might make my own arguement make more sense to simply add "I have zero patience", which I mean sincerely.  Cutscenes and talky bits are slow.  Granted, I tend to think EVERYTHING is slow, but still.  I can read dramatically faster than characters can speak or scenes can happen (particularly in these days of super dramatic drawn-out scenes). 

It's one of the reasons why I get into bullet-hell shmups so much, or something like Nuclear Throne:  Stuff just... keeps.... coming.  And tends to fill the screen.  That and I need a challenge to hold my attention.  I've always found that story-based games are too easy, because if they're hard, the player might not get to experience it all;  I think that's what started my dislike of them, because I just get bored and end up not looking forward to later parts.

And with so many cliches and things repeated in major games over and over and over and over (small band of random idiots somehow confronts and defeats some huge, world-ending threat after an incredibly nonsensical series of events, in JRPGs, for instance) that I usually just dont feel like I"m missing anything.   That I dont care one bit about things like voice actors (seriously, name *any* one of them and I'll have no clue who you're talking about and will lose interest in the conversation instantly) and am not impressed by graphics or flashy effects doesnt help one bit.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 19, 2015, 05:52:02 AM
Eraser, I'm going to have to disagree a bit with the Simcity/Skylines comparison. Skylines is also, to a much more sensible degree, using agents. All citizens are actual agents in Skylines, whereas water, power and pollution are not.

Indeed.

But unlike Sim City 5, Skylines has no day/night cycle or dynamic schedule for citizen activities. The agent simulation in Sim City 5 was actually pretty advanced (hence it was limited in it's city area so massively). The only thing Skylines simulates to a great degree is traffic and movement, but movement and traffic are very easy to simulate. Since it's a basic pathing problem. In Sim City 5 you also had to worry about GOODS (agents) getting to FACTORIES and Worker (Agents) producing products (Agents) that then get distributed via drones (Agents). And day night means you have rush-hours, we should be very thankful Skylines doesn't simulate that.

The depth of the agent simulation in Sim City 5 is extreme ;) And imo it was too extreme, overused and abused. ;P
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 19, 2015, 06:01:13 AM
It might make my own arguement make more sense to simply add "I have zero patience", which I mean sincerely.  Cutscenes and talky bits are slow.  Granted, I tend to think EVERYTHING is slow, but still.  I can read dramatically faster than characters can speak or scenes can happen (particularly in these days of super dramatic drawn-out scenes). 
The way you describe yourself is basically like someone with ADD on crack. I mean, I have ADHD myself, so I know how it is to be impatient and easily distracted when bored, but the stuff you describe just sounds insane ^^
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 19, 2015, 06:01:59 AM
Eraser, I'm going to have to disagree a bit with the Simcity/Skylines comparison. Skylines is also, to a much more sensible degree, using agents. All citizens are actual agents in Skylines, whereas water, power and pollution are not.

Indeed.

But unlike Sim City 5, Skylines has no day/night cycle or dynamic schedule for citizen activities. The agent simulation in Sim City 5 was actually pretty advanced (hence it was limited in it's city area so massively). The only thing Skylines simulates to a great degree is traffic and movement, but movement and traffic are very easy to simulate. Since it's a basic pathing problem. In Sim City 5 you also had to worry about GOODS (agents) getting to FACTORIES and Worker (Agents) producing products (Agents) that then get distributed via drones (Agents). And day night means you have rush-hours, we should be very thankful Skylines doesn't simulate that.

The depth of the agent simulation in Sim City 5 is extreme ;) And imo it was too extreme, overused and abused. ;P
Typical case of realism < fun?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 19, 2015, 06:45:11 AM
Eraser, I'm going to have to disagree a bit with the Simcity/Skylines comparison. Skylines is also, to a much more sensible degree, using agents. All citizens are actual agents in Skylines, whereas water, power and pollution are not.

Indeed.

But unlike Sim City 5, Skylines has no day/night cycle or dynamic schedule for citizen activities. The agent simulation in Sim City 5 was actually pretty advanced (hence it was limited in it's city area so massively). The only thing Skylines simulates to a great degree is traffic and movement, but movement and traffic are very easy to simulate. Since it's a basic pathing problem. In Sim City 5 you also had to worry about GOODS (agents) getting to FACTORIES and Worker (Agents) producing products (Agents) that then get distributed via drones (Agents). And day night means you have rush-hours, we should be very thankful Skylines doesn't simulate that.

The depth of the agent simulation in Sim City 5 is extreme ;) And imo it was too extreme, overused and abused. ;P
Typical case of realism < fun?

Indeed, that and using a hammer for things that aren't nails.. or agents for water/electricity/sewage (which are all load/pressure simulations, and not agent simulations) if you wanted to simulate that that is...
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 19, 2015, 07:32:54 AM
It might make my own arguement make more sense to simply add "I have zero patience", which I mean sincerely.  Cutscenes and talky bits are slow.  Granted, I tend to think EVERYTHING is slow, but still.  I can read dramatically faster than characters can speak or scenes can happen (particularly in these days of super dramatic drawn-out scenes). 
The way you describe yourself is basically like someone with ADD on crack. I mean, I have ADHD myself, so I know how it is to be impatient and easily distracted when bored, but the stuff you describe just sounds insane ^^

Actually, I'm autistic, which can... sometimes be similar.  Specifically though, I dont have Asperger's, the one that people like to repeat endlessly.  I have a different sort, and some of my so-called symptoms are.... the best word I can find is "reversed".  Makes things kinda strange and warped.  It has some advantages though;  my reaction time and general processing speed is a bit ridiculous, though the downside of that is that most things seem at least somewhat slow.  Useful in gaming though, that's for sure.  There's certainly other problems though.... my memory is absolutely terrible and I can forget things that happened a minute ago (NOT useful in gaming), and IRL I"m about as social as a brick.

I dont normally explain that bit or mention it (among other things), because too many people are bloody stupid and become total asshats about it, particularly in the shrieking vortex of idiocy that is the internet.... but then, this isnt an average forum, at least to me anyway.  We dont even get flamewars here!  Nobody yells at anyone else!  Bloody amazing, really.  There arent any other forums I go to where that is the case.   Heck, most places, this very topic would have had at least a couple of people shouting f-bombs at each other by now. 

I've forgotten what else I was going to say.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 19, 2015, 08:19:44 AM
Actually, I'm autistic, which can... sometimes be similar.  Specifically though, I dont have Asperger's, the one that people like to repeat endlessly.  I have a different sort, and some of my so-called symptoms are.... the best word I can find is "reversed".  Makes things kinda strange and warped.  It has some advantages though;  my reaction time and general processing speed is a bit ridiculous, though the downside of that is that most things seem at least somewhat slow.  Useful in gaming though, that's for sure.  There's certainly other problems though.... my memory is absolutely terrible and I can forget things that happened a minute ago (NOT useful in gaming), and IRL I"m about as social as a brick.

I dont normally explain that bit or mention it (among other things), because too many people are bloody stupid and become total asshats about it, particularly in the shrieking vortex of idiocy that is the internet.... but then, this isnt an average forum, at least to me anyway.  We dont even get flamewars here!  Nobody yells at anyone else!  Bloody amazing, really.  There arent any other forums I go to where that is the case.   Heck, most places, this very topic would have had at least a couple of people shouting f-bombs at each other by now. 

I've forgotten what else I was going to say.
Well, autism has about 6 billion ways of manifesting itself. My sister has "atypical autism", my one girlfriend is an aspie and my other girlfriend's ADHD like me. So yeah...I've seen my fair share of "diagnoses". I just found it fascinating to hear...read you "talk" about it.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Pumpkin on March 19, 2015, 09:22:04 AM
I dont normally explain that bit or mention it (among other things), because too many people are bloody stupid and become total asshats about it, particularly in the shrieking vortex of idiocy that is the internet.... but then, this isnt an average forum, at least to me anyway.  We dont even get flamewars here!  Nobody yells at anyone else!  Bloody amazing, really.  There arent any other forums I go to where that is the case.   Heck, most places, this very topic would have had at least a couple of people shouting f-bombs at each other by now.
Read this. (http://steamcommunity.com/games/264140/announcements/detail/234519279442528799)

Heck, most places, this very topic would have had at least a couple of people shouting f-bombs at each other by now.
True. I never noticed how true. Thank you for reminding me (us) how peaceful this place is.

Sorry for interrupting the "worst *** ever" topic. I'm out.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Wingflier on March 19, 2015, 03:17:44 PM
Are we forgetting about Drox Operative?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 19, 2015, 07:50:44 PM
Are we forgetting about Drox Operative?
What about Drox Operative?
It's ugly as sin, has nothing at all to do with space, and the ARPG play is pretty overused...but apart from that, it at least tries to shake things up a bit.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: chemical_art on March 19, 2015, 09:58:31 PM
Heck, most places, this very topic would have had at least a couple of people shouting f-bombs at each other by now. 


This is a saving grace of this forum, yes. When I hear most people bash my "pet game" I would arm the cannons and prepare for war. But here? "Yes, everything you say is valid [even if I don't agree]" Because everyone has the decency to give me the same benefit. This forum is so relaxed I don't even feel the need to express "I disagree" It is enough to state"I can see what you say"
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: mrhanman on March 20, 2015, 12:40:22 AM
Are we forgetting about Drox Operative?
What about Drox Operative?
It's ugly as sin, has nothing at all to do with space, and the ARPG play is pretty overused...but apart from that, it at least tries to shake things up a bit.

I've only played the demo, but I thought the graphics and style were at least adequate.  Certainly not ugly, anyway.  And what do you mean it has nothing to do with space?  You fly a spaceship of some sort around from planet to planet.  That's pretty space-y, right?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: doctorfrog on March 20, 2015, 02:05:48 AM
Space roguelikes are pretty rare, and have generally preserved all the stat-driven tactical combat simulation that modern RPGs have seen fit to do away with.

This one, I might buy, once it comes down in price (with Shrapnel Games publishing it, never gonna happen, though): http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Ibology/AI/AI_page.html

I think the best three games set in space I've ever played are Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (not interested in quibbling over whether this is a space game since it is terrestrially based), System Shock 2, and Star Control 2.

Everything else seems to fall short of those earlier play experiences, and nothing seems to have really leapt ahead of them. It's not enough to play the same thing with better graphics, games need to evolve, not just get prettier and more refined, or with one or two novel twists.

Also, I don't think I can really enjoy a space flight sim in the year of our lord 2015 if I can't walk around in my ship, and also land on planets and stations and walk around there as well. You can have Elite Dangerous and the endless vapor that is Star Citizen, I'm willing to wait another decade to get the real space games that everyone else in this thread really wishes existed.

It's gonna be a couple generations or more.

The next space game I will be playing, though, is Space Shuttle (https://www.atariage.com/software_page.html?SoftwareID=1313).
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 20, 2015, 05:27:59 AM

Also, I don't think I can really enjoy a space flight sim in the year of our lord 2015 if I can't walk around in my ship, and also land on planets and stations and walk around there as well. You can have Elite Dangerous and the endless vapor that is Star Citizen,

Wait a minute, isnt one of Star Citizen's big selling point the fact that you CAN do those things?

It's current state is NOT the finished game.  I am told (in really, really extreme detail) that those things will indeed exist in the game, and a bit more than just that (repairs, for example, dont involve simple menus and such; you have to actually go to the spot and repair it, even if it's on the outside of the ship...).

Wheras Elite just isnt about that element to begin with.


Have you considered Space Engineers?  That game is HUGELY popular and there's about 5 bazillion mods for it.  The game is VERY complex, and the updates are extremely rapid (every week or so, like Nuclear Throne is doing), and even in it's early access form, it's got ALOT of depth and content.  And yes, this is one of those ones that's safe to purchase in early access;  I wouldnt be recommending it if it wasnt.  Hell, one of the recent updates added programmable.... somethings, some sort of computer console I'm betting (Steam flipped out before I could have a good look at the thing), that you program in C#.  It might be worth looking into if you havent already. 

The only problem is it requires a beefy computer, due to the very high amount of physics stuff that it will always be doing.   But holy heck, it is DETAILED. 

You wont land on planets in this one, but that's not what it's about.  It's about building and interacting with your ship (and repairing it, the damage modeling is detailed), mining and utilizing asteroids (you could build stations on them, for instance, which is a common use of them, if you want.  Or just build a big smiley face, I dont know, whatever) and so on.  Seriously, that one really is something special.

And finally.... there's Space Engine.  I have a hard time describing this one.  Here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mootV7Iqa34

Obvoiusly, you can see all sorts of stars, a bazillion of them, in the background of most of those shots.  Here's the thing about Space Engine:  You can click on any one of them.... ANY of them.... and have the game jump you towards it (which is impressive to see).  Each can have it's own individual planets and asteroids and thing.  Every planet, you can go to the surface of. The surface of each is very detailed.  All of it seamless.   For the planets that are well known to astronomers and such, they are recreated in detail in the game.  Everything else is procedural, though not in an "enter a seed" sort of way.   If you find a particularly cool planet somewhere, you could mark down it's coordinates, send them to a friend, and they can go and find that very same planet, and explore it.  They'll find the same craters or mountains or lakes or whatever as you did if they look in the same spots.   You can travel to different galaxies as well, which isnt immediately evident (I found this just randomly on accident, friend of mine didn't believe it until I showed him) which again, is filled with... a bazillion things. 

Seriously, it's freaking incredible.  When I first found it I sat there for 3 totally hypnotized hours just exploring at random. And that's ME doing that, and as I said, I aint exactly made of patience here and dont sit still well.   

And the feature list is huuuuuuuuuge.  The developers have made a list of things that describe where they want it to eventually go, and... if they pull it off, it's going to be the Dwarf Fortress of space games.  But even just in it's current state, it's awesome.  If the game even looks somewhat interesting to you, I very strongly suggest going and having a look at the features listed on the site, because there's ALOT of them.  The game gets very.... science-y. 



Also I looked at that link you dropped there, and arrrrgh.....   I'm going to buy the damn thing, arent I?  I'm going to buy the damn thing.  I dont know why I even try to resist, I always end up buying eventually (AKA, within the space of an hour or so), I may as well do it now.  That looks really darn good and right up my alley.

Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 20, 2015, 06:00:20 AM
Are we forgetting about Drox Operative?
What about Drox Operative?
It's ugly as sin, has nothing at all to do with space, and the ARPG play is pretty overused...but apart from that, it at least tries to shake things up a bit.

I've only played the demo, but I thought the graphics and style were at least adequate.  Certainly not ugly, anyway.  And what do you mean it has nothing to do with space?  You fly a spaceship of some sort around from planet to planet.  That's pretty space-y, right?
Not in my book, no. The game could just as well be set underwater, in an empty cereal bowl, or in a dungeon below a doomed village. None of the mechanics require or reflect anything belonging to space; Bugs Bunny is a better representation of a rabbit than DO is one of space.
And Soldak, as much as I like their games, have crap taste in visuals. At least to me, the more leeway they get, the more ugly things become - Din's Curse had human-like proportions on things, but everything looked like it had been created with a minimum of effort. In Drox Operative though, the gloves come off - now everything looks like effort never factored into it, and everything was just mashed together randomly. None of the shapes or colours make sense or even look good.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 20, 2015, 07:12:47 AM
Also I looked at that link you dropped there, and arrrrgh.....   I'm going to buy the damn thing, arent I?  I'm going to buy the damn thing.  I dont know why I even try to resist, I always end up buying eventually (AKA, within the space of an hour or so), I may as well do it now.  That looks really darn good and right up my alley.

Okay so quoting myself there, aaaand.....  ye gods, that Shrapnel place is.... irritating.  The price, I dont care about.  That's fine, whatever.  But the store and the way they handle things.... ugh.  DRM from Hell on this one.  Which doesnt appear to be functioning correctly, at least right now.   Really, you shouldnt have to put in a serial number into a game that is singleplayer only, yet NEEDS TO CONNECT ONLINE just to do some crazy magic rituals with that number before you're able to actually play it. 

It's like they WANT people to pirate it.  What kind of corporate dolt thinks this is a good idea?  Ugh. 

Looking around though apparently the game is absolutely fan-freaking-tastic, so it might be worth the fact that I have to deal with customer support with one of these damn companies for about the billionth time.   It's like a routine, now.   And problems with other services have been worse than this, that's for sure.  I'm not even going to try to describe what the Desura client is currently doing lately.

Might just see if the laptop will do this.  I'll actually be angry if it does.

EDIT:  or it did it after I repeated it enough.  I'm just gonna blame Windows.

Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 20, 2015, 07:37:20 AM
Shrapnel Games sounds like a company but it's just one guy, if I remember correctly. It's the dude who made the Space Empires series.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 20, 2015, 07:53:57 AM
So I tried Infinite Space, and oh boy. How can anyone play this? The Story seems to be sewn together from the desiccated corpses of every sci-fi anime ever, the menu structure is extremely aggravating -tons of different screens and tons and tons of "are you sure you want to leave this screen" - and, oh let me get back to the story, the main character is so much of a cardboard cutout I want to find a way to get him killed and replace him. Combat seems to come down to a gamble, apart from having better ships, and consists of repeated (and fortunately skippable) cut scenes with horrible audio. Also, so far it's not a space game IMO - it could just as well have been sailing ships and islands instead of spaceships and planets.

I'm trying out Approaching Infinity next. Here's to hope.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 20, 2015, 09:36:31 AM
So I tried Infinite Space, and oh boy. How can anyone play this? The Story seems to be sewn together from the desiccated corpses of every sci-fi anime ever, the menu structure is extremely aggravating -tons of different screens and tons and tons of "are you sure you want to leave this screen" - and, oh let me get back to the story, the main character is so much of a cardboard cutout I want to find a way to get him killed and replace him. Combat seems to come down to a gamble, apart from having better ships, and consists of repeated (and fortunately skippable) cut scenes with horrible audio. Also, so far it's not a space game IMO - it could just as well have been sailing ships and islands instead of spaceships and planets.

I'm trying out Approaching Infinity next. Here's to hope.

AI definitely aint for everyone.  Biggest problem:  The tutorial does NOT tell you enough.  There's *alot* of stuff to the game overall.  Like, a ton.   The tutorial will tell you only the absolute basics, and even then, it'll not explain them fully.

I, so far, am quite enjoying it.  Some things in it are very typical of roguelikes... extremely simplistic combat (does ANY roguelike ever not have that aspect?), for instance, you've got a ranged weapon and a melee weapon when on planets, and so far for me at least just a missile.... thing, for space combat; apparently more can be gotten there (as in, more than one weapon equipped on the ship at once), but I've not figured that out yet.  Unlike many roguelikes though, particularly on planets or in stations or whatever, each enemy type is actually DIFFERENT and does different things.  This part, I like, as alot of roguelikes dont actually do this.

And none of that Nethack sort of thing where you get an unidentified thing, the only way to figure it out is to use it, so you use it and instantly die.  Yeah.  None of that here.  That's good, because I haaaaaaaaaaaate that.   

Exploring planets and other things that require an away team can be tough because of the blasted oxygen.   That system can be pretty annoying, but I can understand why it's there, so I dont mind it too much.  And you'll do MUCH more combat on planets than in space.  Away team death does not = captain death (usually) so that's not instant game over, but ship destruction is.

I dont entirely understand the crafting yet, and I DEFINITELY dont understand the "lab" thing, that's.... confusing.  Interesting, but confusing.

Interface is a little strange, but functional.  There's like 50 thousand buttons in the top right of the interface that do stuff I dont remember.

Dont expect anything from the graphics.  Typical roguelike:  They are very function-over-form.   They look fine to me (alot better than most tilesets), but then I tend to think ASCII looks nice, so my opinion on that probably doesnt mean much.  The dude that represents your team on away missions though looks alarmingly stupid. 


But yeah, after a couple of hours, I'm thoroughly enjoying it so far, and there's alot to it, yet I've barely scratched the surface of it.  So far I'm thinking that for me at least it was a worthy purchase.  Love games like this, but I have trouble finding ones I consider genuinely good and deep enough to keep my attention.

Also:  this one looks to prove to be a LONG game.  If you turn perma-death on, well.... yeah.  That one's gonna HURT if you go down far into it, as this isnt one of those roguelikes where a run takes like 15 minutes.  It's more like Dungeons of Dredmor.... that game, it can take 15 *hours* when the dungeon size is at it's default and the difficulty is medium or high.  And it suuuuuuuucks to die on like, the last floor in that game.  I'm expecting this one will prove to be very, very similar in that regard.

EDIT:  Or it turns out the game doesnt HAVE an ending unless you specifically choose to do one of the end quests, which are apparantly lengthy and complicated.  There's no end to the number of sectors and things that you can explore and do whatever you want in.

EDIT:  Okay, so I found a dungeon thing, has very good things in it but the captain has to come along with the away team (he dies, it's game over), did mostly fine, chopped through many of the normal baddies without trouble, ran back to ship for healing when needed, was nearing the end of the area... boss appears.  No way I can kill it, so, run back to the ship.... and I die *on* the exit tile, the moment I reach it.  Just.   What.    Now THAT is an irritating way to go down.  ONE more turn and.... uuuuuugh.   
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: doctorfrog on March 20, 2015, 07:54:55 PM
words
I'm showing some major prejudice against Star Citizen, I'll freely admit that. I honestly don't think its end result will be very compelling to me, even if every feature bullet point is ticked. By the time it is "done" it will have wandered completely off my radar, having turned mostly into a combination of online store and its own operating system. It will also have an esoteric in-language, interface, and a hostile inbred crypto-culture like Eve Online. That's my dour prediction. Right now, though, it's an intriguing list of promises, and little more.

Space Engineers actually looks fun, and I'm looking forward to it as a finished project, hopefully with a lively in-game universe.

You're buying Approaching Infinity? It does have a demo, do try it out first!
edit: you've bought it and enjoy it. Cool, thanks for your impressions. If Shrapnel ever untightens its bowels about the price, I might untighten my wallet strings and buy it!
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on March 20, 2015, 08:05:51 PM
Shrapnel truly has absurd pricing ...

Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition : 27€
After Infinity Normal Edition: 40€

Something is very wrong there ;)
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Cyborg on March 20, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
Regarding the autism topic.



I have serious questions about the amount of autism diagnoses we are seeing. I have serious questions about the difference between behaving badly and exhibiting symptoms of autism. And I have serious questions about accountability. I have serious questions for parents that actually *want* to declare their children autistic.


Actually, these are all the questions that were being asked about the sudden increase in ADD diagnoses in the 90s and then followed by depression diagnoses. And a mountain of medication that followed.
Questions. Lots and lots of questions.


Do I think it’s fake? Do I think depression and ADD are fake? No. However, when does one cross the line between just who someone is versus a medical disability? For example, how much of the DSM could we diagnose bad behavior in the Middle East? Is that a medical problem? How much of the behaviors associated with autism could also be associated with childhood trauma (Hint: all of them!)? How much of the behaviors associated with autism survive any of a number of other diagnoses?


Does it even matter? Only when it comes to accountability. When does one have to be accountable for their behavior and when is it a disability? Lots and lots of questions.


Without a medical marker, we have observational diagnoses, which is factually ambiguous. However, declaring someone to have autism as a disability comes with legal protections and becomes a shield for a variety of behaviors. I have concerns about that.


I don't have concerns about people needing adaptations, modifications, notions of understanding how to interact with someone, spending extra time understanding of the person, indulging obsessions, or otherwise making the world more accessible for people exhibiting symptoms of autism. I don't doubt that some people are clearly suffering.


But I do have questions.

Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 21, 2015, 01:04:49 AM
Regarding the autism topic.



I have serious questions about the amount of autism diagnoses we are seeing. I have serious questions about the difference between behaving badly and exhibiting symptoms of autism. And I have serious questions about accountability. I have serious questions for parents that actually *want* to declare their children autistic.


Actually, these are all the questions that were being asked about the sudden increase in ADD diagnoses in the 90s and then followed by depression diagnoses. And a mountain of medication that followed.
Questions. Lots and lots of questions.


Do I think it’s fake? Do I think depression and ADD are fake? No. However, when does one cross the line between just who someone is versus a medical disability? For example, how much of the DSM could we diagnose bad behavior in the Middle East? Is that a medical problem? How much of the behaviors associated with autism could also be associated with childhood trauma (Hint: all of them!)? How much of the behaviors associated with autism survive any of a number of other diagnoses?


Does it even matter? Only when it comes to accountability. When does one have to be accountable for their behavior and when is it a disability? Lots and lots of questions.


Without a medical marker, we have observational diagnoses, which is factually ambiguous. However, declaring someone to have autism as a disability comes with legal protections and becomes a shield for a variety of behaviors. I have concerns about that.


I don't have concerns about people needing adaptations, modifications, notions of understanding how to interact with someone, spending extra time understanding of the person, indulging obsessions, or otherwise making the world more accessible for people exhibiting symptoms of autism. I don't doubt that some people are clearly suffering.


But I do have questions.

And most of those questions, I think, are perfectly valid.  I personally get SO tired of people doing the "self-diagnosis" thing.  It's so bloody stupid.  I dont care if people get offended by that one, I'm going to endlessly keep repeating it.  That kind of crap is one of the largest reasons by far why the number of diagnosises (I dont know how to spell that) are rising so dramatically, because people are doing it in a very half-assed way.  It's so idiotic.

My own diagnosis was a bit more... abnormal.   My father believes in being very thorough, and has the money to do things that way.  As such, this didn't involve dealing with one specialist;  it involved a team of about 7 of them and this loooooooooong barrage of complicated tests of all sorts.  It took quite awhile and required many seperate sessions.  I dont have any doubts as to it's validity; but if it had been dealing with ONE guy over a session that's like one hour long.... ahh, that'd not suffice, for me.  Too vague.  So it bugs me that most do it that way.  And you're right, it is used to shield alot of stupid things that some people do; this bugs me as well. 

Just... ugh.  There's too much stupid around the whole thing, that it hurts alot of those that ACTUALLY have it.  I see that pretty often when dealing with others that have it;  they usually definitely dont have things easy.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 21, 2015, 05:25:32 AM
People keep telling me I must have some form of ADD, just because my concentration, attention and memory are shot to hell. I keep telling them it's because I drank to much as a teen, played too many video games, or because elementary school was too easy for me. Or maybe it's just the way I am? In any case, I don't know in what way any sort of diagnosis (Plural: Diagnoses. Do not confuse with Diogenes or Theognosis.) would help me. It's not like the world will suddenly give me things for free; and I seriously doubt that medication would do more good than harm even if it worked on me.

On topic:
Dear god, Approaching Infinity having perfunctory graphics...wasn't a lie. I'm going to need to muster my courage before I can make it past the character creation screen.

And Infinite Space...I have more crew now, but I don't understand how the fact that I have several ships factors into the game. I only see one set of HP displayed in battle, I assign my crew to posts globally and not on a per-ship basis, and only the frontmost ship seems to appear in the cutscenes. A manual really would do some good, I guess.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 21, 2015, 07:38:28 AM
Yeah, I'm heading to a neuropsych eval in a couple of weeks time and that will finish up what has been a two year process to determine how I work. Notice I didn't say there was something "wrong" with me. The evaluation is not to put a stamp on someone and say "you have asperger/ADHD". It's to find out how your brain is wired. If it turns out you also have a diagnose like that, well then you can get training and perhaps medication to help deal with it.


I, however, do not have any problems saying I have ADHD even though the eval isn't completed entirely yet. Because we know already that such things are heriditary and both my mother and father, one of my sisters, both her children have ADHD. My other sister is autistic and two of her children are diagnosed with ADD/ADHD respectively. Combining that strong genetic lineup with the initial evaluation my psychologist and I've done together in mapping up my life, I'm pretty convinced of the fact. That doesn't give me the right to act like a jerk.


A diagnose isn't an excuse to order the rest of the world to adapt to you. It's not a free ticket to being an asshole to people. A diagnose is a handicap. Just like missing a leg or suffering from epilepsia. It's YOUR problem and it's YOURS alone to deal with. Thankfully, ADHD comes with a few perks as well. My point is that it's helpful if my surroundings are aware of my diagnosis and how that can affect them. But I do not expect to be treated any differently than anyone else. That would extremely narcissistic.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 21, 2015, 07:38:57 AM
On topic:
Dear god, Approaching Infinity having perfunctory graphics...wasn't a lie. I'm going to need to muster my courage before I can make it past the character creation screen.
Ever played Space Empires IV *shivers*
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Captain Jack on March 21, 2015, 06:40:24 PM
And Infinite Space...I have more crew now, but I don't understand how the fact that I have several ships factors into the game. I only see one set of HP displayed in battle, I assign my crew to posts globally and not on a per-ship basis, and only the frontmost ship seems to appear in the cutscenes. A manual really would do some good, I guess.
Have you equipped your extra ships? You can check which ones you have at the CTA under Edit Fleet, though you're still early enough in the game that I think you might just have one slot. The ships you're collecting are designs until you build them, and then in a pool of possible ships until you add them to your fleet. Fleet size is determined by Yuri's Fleet Leader ability and goes up as you do story stuff.

And yeah crew is universal. Think of it as having officers on the flagship and generic crew everywhere else.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 21, 2015, 09:08:48 PM
Dear god, Approaching Infinity having perfunctory graphics...wasn't a lie. I'm going to need to muster my courage before I can make it past the character creation screen.

Just be glad it has graphics at all.

It could look like this: 

(https://www.adayinthelifeof.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/df.jpg)

Which is usually the sort of look that I associate with roguelikes.


Definitely enjoying it myself though, that game holds my attention well.   You gotta really be careful when making decisions though, like any game in that genre things can go bad really darn fast.  Expect possible frustration.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 22, 2015, 04:42:22 AM
Infinite Space: I have the starting ship and the first destroyer, with the latter fully equipped...with cargo holds, mostly. I have no idea how those work. Still, the battle interface makes little sense to me - am I actually using two ships in battle? I have one set of hitpoints, only ship is ever seen firing.

Approaching Infinity: Well, NO graphics I can get behind. I put god knows how many hundreds of hours into Dwarf Fortress, Nethack, Zangband...but ugly graphics are a huge problem for me. When someone puts work into something and it gets worse, then I really would have preferred the bare-bones simplicity of no graphics.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 22, 2015, 09:50:38 AM
Infinite Space: I have the starting ship and the first destroyer, with the latter fully equipped...with cargo holds, mostly. I have no idea how those work. Still, the battle interface makes little sense to me - am I actually using two ships in battle? I have one set of hitpoints, only ship is ever seen firing.

Approaching Infinity: Well, NO graphics I can get behind. I put god knows how many hundreds of hours into Dwarf Fortress, Nethack, Zangband...but ugly graphics are a huge problem for me. When someone puts work into something and it gets worse, then I really would have preferred the bare-bones simplicity of no graphics.

My guess is that they probably did it because there's too many out there that seem to be almost physically unable to look at ASCII graphics.  I know a few like that.  Show them as much as you want, it'll still look like absolute gibberish to them.  And try to SELL something like that....

Nope, gotta be a tileset. Even though LOTS of tilesets are bloody awful.  But you cant sell something that "doesnt even have graphics".   Sigh...  I'll be honest, I *frequently* miss the DOS era, where *lots* of games, sold for actual money, were done entirely in ASCII.  I have about a bazillion of them. 

Well, whatever.  Silly looking though it can be, the tileset is functional enough to do it's job (and not as bad as many other tilesets I've seen).  As long as it's easy to tell what everything is, I personally have no real complaints.

Also, it seems that the developer of this one is going to continue to update it.  With additional actual content, not just bugfixes and such.  So that's good.  Though it's got a ton in there to begin with, really.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Captain Jack on March 22, 2015, 02:31:22 PM
Infinite Space: I have the starting ship and the first destroyer, with the latter fully equipped...with cargo holds, mostly. I have no idea how those work. Still, the battle interface makes little sense to me - am I actually using two ships in battle? I have one set of hitpoints, only ship is ever seen firing.
Cargo holds generate a small amount of cash every time you dock at a spaceport. You'll want something that'll boost combat stats before long, but you'll be fine for a few sectors.

It sounds to me like you haven't equipped your second ship to the fleet. This LP on Bay12 might be able to help, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129297.msg4490810#msg4490810) but I admit I haven't read it myself. Basically you want to go to the CTA and then the fleet subsection. On the left side of the lower screen there's a square grid showing how your ships are arranged relative to one another. Drag a ship to the space to start using it. Here's the thing: your max fleet size is dependent on Yuri's skill. I don't think you have fleet commander 2 yet. That'll change really soon.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 23, 2015, 05:28:33 AM
It could look like this: 

(https://www.adayinthelifeof.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/df.jpg)

Which is usually the sort of look that I associate with roguelikes.
...it's probably a bad sign that that screen shot makes perfect sense to me...
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 23, 2015, 09:24:37 AM
...it's probably a bad sign that that screen shot makes perfect sense to me...

Eh, it makes sense to me as well.    Been a fan of that game for some time now.   Though I still dont really know adventure mode much. 

Though, this forum having people that know what's what in that screenshot doesnt surprise me  ;)
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: WingedKagouti on March 23, 2015, 09:26:59 AM
...it's probably a bad sign that that screen shot makes perfect sense to me...

Eh, it makes sense to me as well.    Been a fan of that game for some time now.   Though I still dont really know adventure mode much. 

Though, this forum having people that know what's what in that screenshot doesnt surprise me  ;)
The real question is whether you'd pay $10 for a game that looks like that.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on March 23, 2015, 10:40:05 AM
I'd pay 100$ for DF.
Luckily it isn't actually that expensive, so I only donated them some 15€.

Adventure mode is pretty much Dismemberment : The Game. If you're lucky it's also Dismemberment : The Game : Chapter 2 : Dying to Infections.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 23, 2015, 11:14:19 AM
...it's probably a bad sign that that screen shot makes perfect sense to me...

Eh, it makes sense to me as well.    Been a fan of that game for some time now.   Though I still dont really know adventure mode much. 

Though, this forum having people that know what's what in that screenshot doesnt surprise me  ;)
The real question is whether you'd pay $10 for a game that looks like that.


I'll go with what Khan said, I'd pay a ton for that game.  I've never seen another game with the sheer ridiculous amount of depth and content as that one.  It's only real issue is the absolutely terrible, horrible learning curve of doom, and the #)%&-ing interface for setting jobs for each dwarf (that one part of the interface is SO annoying, that there's a seperate program to run alongside the game that does it in a different way, and I never, ever play without that).  That game really is proof that graphics dont make good gameplay, since the ASCII format allows for a ridiculous amount of stuff/information on the screen at once.  Also probably makes it a bazillion times easier for Toady to work on, not having to do new art for each addition.  Those who make tilesets for it can do that, I play without those though.

I think the only other games I have that gives me that kind of replay value and sheer amount of awesome stuff to do is Minecraft, and then probably AI War as well actually.

Says alot about the industry as it is today, really.  To me, anyway.  That I can pay like, $10 (if that) for games like these, that give hundreds, even thousands of hours of gameplay without getting old.... yet if I go buy a new game on console for like, $60, alot of them at that price might give like, 12 hours, maybe.  Replay value usually coming ONLY from multiplayer.  Just... ugh.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Pumpkin on March 23, 2015, 01:33:44 PM
I totally agree that DF is the worst space game ever! There is no lasers and no space docks, only trading, and the flight physic is horrible. I won't even pay a dime for a space game like that!

(Who's out of context? You or me? First define "context". Then read the title of this thread.)

 :P :P :P
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on March 23, 2015, 08:30:42 PM
....."context"?


I know not the meaning of this word.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 24, 2015, 04:20:04 AM
This is off topic. One does not simply stay on topic in off topic.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: doctorfrog on March 26, 2015, 03:26:08 AM
please no fighting in the war room
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on April 01, 2015, 11:59:29 AM
Blah blah blah, Endless Space was a horrendous mess, blah blah because Games 2 Gether, blah blah blah.

I'm sure people remember the gist of what I said. :P
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mick on April 01, 2015, 12:14:22 PM
Blah blah blah, Endless Space was a horrendous mess, blah blah because Games 2 Gether, blah blah blah.

I'm sure people remember the gist of what I said. :P

General agreement.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on April 01, 2015, 04:09:26 PM
I actually never followed the whole g2g affair. Can someone give me a more extensive gist of it?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Captain Jack on April 01, 2015, 05:32:03 PM
I actually never followed the whole g2g affair. Can someone give me a more extensive gist of it?
Not much to say about it. They come up with three ideas for a character, mechanic or concept and put the community to vote on it. The winner gets implemented, the losers do not. This is fine for fluff and even for units types, but apparently they extended the concept to bug fixing and QOL improvements at one point, which is just odd.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on April 01, 2015, 05:39:32 PM
Features too.  Where three great features would come out and the two losers would never be considered again.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on April 02, 2015, 03:23:25 AM
But that's reta!ded :o
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mick on April 02, 2015, 07:34:50 AM
I don't see why other companies don't adopt this model.

Please vote on the feature you'd like us to put into the next Civilization game:

A) Technology
B) War
C) City Development
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on April 02, 2015, 08:59:34 AM
Trendy is doing something similar with Dungeon Defenders 2, but it's being treated as a priority queue.  "Which feature do you want us to spend more time on for the next update?" kind of thing.

https://www.dungeondefenders.com/2/initiatives
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on April 02, 2015, 10:28:12 AM
That sounds a lot more reasonable. Probably isn't a bad idea, actually.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on April 02, 2015, 11:56:51 AM
That sounds a lot more reasonable. Probably isn't a bad idea, actually.

Hasn't been too bad so far.

What's really been frustrating has been the "Oh...that thing...Uh, the guy who was working on that quit and we...have no idea how it works." for some teased features that get quietly forgotten about.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Shrugging Khan on April 02, 2015, 04:46:53 PM
Well, that's fine for an excuse as far as stalling goes...but how can that justify just dropping a promised feature? If some dude who quit could do it, I suppose the core team could figure out how to do it on their own some time, too?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on April 02, 2015, 05:04:23 PM
Well, that's fine for an excuse as far as stalling goes...but how can that justify just dropping a promised feature? If some dude who quit could do it, I suppose the core team could figure out how to do it on their own some time, too?

Its not stuff that's been scrapped entirely, it's just been stuff that's been put aside because no one has an understanding of how it's supposed to work.  And it's not stuff that came up for a vote, it's more stuff that was talked about in a blog post or similar.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Misery on April 03, 2015, 04:07:44 AM
Blah blah blah, Endless Space was a horrendous mess, blah blah because Games 2 Gether, blah blah blah.

I'm sure people remember the gist of what I said. :P

"Games 2 Gether"?

What?
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on April 03, 2015, 08:39:38 AM
"Games 2 Gether"?

What?

http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/G2G-Votes2/
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Toranth on April 03, 2015, 10:49:08 AM
"Games 2 Gether"?
What?
http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/G2G-Votes2/
I particularly remember the "Trade route summary" screen that took HOW long to get added to the game after release?

Because obviously no one would want basic knowledge necessary to running their empire at the release.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Brenda_Webb on May 13, 2015, 05:17:12 AM
Dead Space 3, if you could call it a space game. Gone are the peaks and valleys that made the same game so very exciting in its previous two prequels. This game is nothing but a constant flood of predictable, ammo-saturated combat areas. All you do is spend way too much time fighting other gun-toting humans. That's about it.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: tombik on May 29, 2016, 06:57:41 PM
Sorry for Necroing, just felt like those two games are worth to mention:

Not as bad games, the ones who read through the discussion might see why I am sharing those:

Infinite Space 3
http://store.steampowered.com/app/269990/

Consortium
http://store.steampowered.com/app/264240/
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Wingflier on May 29, 2016, 08:20:22 PM
Oh lawd we gonna have to start calling you Kel'Thuzad.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 30, 2016, 04:21:53 AM
So that's why this thread showed up again. I figured this was just a little too old to still be going on. Cool! Especially all the part in the middle about neurological disorders. Quite fascinating to read now, years later.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: eRe4s3r on May 30, 2016, 09:17:07 AM
I think this thread despite being old is still valid and worthy ;) Also

# Death Space 1 and 2 were awesome and 3 was totally meh, 3 completely squandered the entire potential (open world with dynamic infection, survival and cooperation with survivors on the station to escape) instead it was a stupid stompy stabby shooty game...

# Infinity Space 3 is.. not my thing.. although space

# Consortium .. will never *forget* my first experience with it, got stuck on literally the first door and couldn't proceed. How can you even.. contemplate releasing a game like THAT? Although I guess today it's kinda decent... and weird.. also not really space since it's a dimensional shuttle plane thing.. ;p


Also just to complete the reply, I think Get2Gether is one of the *worst* things that ever scratched game development. I already said it before but I consider game development by committee a really bad idea ,) And seems for Endless Space 2 they learned a few lessons.. http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/forumdisplay.php?59-Endless-Space-2

Also judging from the design documents they had a few similar ideas to Stellaris
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on May 30, 2016, 10:13:17 AM
Also just to complete the reply, I think Get2Gether is one of the *worst* things that ever scratched game development.

Yes, yes it was.

Trendy is doing something similar (https://dungeondefenders.com/2/initiatives) with DD2.  I told them it was a terrible idea before it started, told them why it was a terrible idea, namely that having the vote totals visible at any point before the voting ends will produce skewed results.

Worst part of it has been the recent "which hero next" votes.
Why?
1) All of them will get added eventually so there's really no point in voting
2) It was a 3-way contest, top 2 "got added" and the third one went into a second round of 3-way.  The people who wanted the Barbarian had to spend twice as many points as anyone else (all other influence votes, the losing side was refunded the points).
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: TheVampire100 on May 30, 2016, 11:06:25 AM
Don't get me on DD2. They have fucked up so many times, I finally decided to deinstall the game.
The only reason why I kept up with this much crap was because I paid for the game (before it went free) and thought that I have to get my money worth of it.
Have I got it worth? In terms of gameplay time maybe (80h exactly) but int erms of fun? No. While the controls are a lot easier to handle, mainly because every hero has only a small portion of towers and abilities he had in DD1, the game itself reeks of "F2P". But not in the good way.
Can you have fun free to play? Yes, it is not pay to win (except you can for some reason buy bags only with gems instead of medals), so you don't have to throw your money at them. Their main income was cosmetics, some costing already 10$. I say "was" because their new income seems to be new heroes. They produce new heroes at a very fast pace instead of fixing old problems. They released Ayss Lord and a lot of people say he is probably the most op hero in the game. He is probably the "lazy" mode of DD2. He summons creatures, that have a big attack range, especially the skeleton archers which, when positioned right, can oversee an entire map. And then you can overclock them, so they are even stronger, mainly the archers attack not a single enem but everyone in sight. The Abyss Lord is also the first hero that has some sort of "super tower" that he can build only once but move freely around after that (with a small building duration).
After Abyss lord they released EV2, a new version of EV from DD1. I cannot say anythign about her because that's when I tapped out of the game.
The thing is, every new hero costs 12.000 medals, a new currency they introduces just for the heroes (but is now used on anything else to give the illuwwion they are useful for anything else). Before that we had the "Wyvern Tokens" which basically fullfilled the same role as the medals but are now worthless. You can still spend them but you cannot get them anymore, so basically they were removed fromt he game. Why do you do this, why do you remove a perfectly functional currency and replace it with soemthign else that does exactly the same but has a different name? And why, if you do that, do you not transfer the Tokens into the new currency? Because Trendy (the developers) want that you have to grind hardcore for the new heroes they release. And yif you cannot, you have to pay real money. A new hero costs slightly less than 15$ on release, 20$ if you want that shiny costume with him (of course). And when you finally scratched tigether every single coin you've foudn to buy it for free, the next hero is released. And they are already doing the next one and I tell you it will become ready next month. They release new heroes now every new month, each will cost the maximum amount of medals that you can hold (12.000) when they come out, they will drop this to 10.000 after the first 2 weeks.
Also, for some reason, the ability spheres of the new heroes (which give you some stat bonuses and special abilities) can only purchased for medals, not for gold (unlike the oney for the four standard heroes). So even if you get the new hero, you won't have medals to buy his ability spheres.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Draco18s on May 30, 2016, 12:34:38 PM
but int erms of fun? No. While the controls are a lot easier to handle, mainly because every hero has only a small portion of towers and abilities he had in DD1, the game itself reeks of "F2P". But not in the good way.

Preaching to the choir.

I will, however, point out that heroes went from 5 towers/2 abilities (total 7) to 4 towers/3 abilities (total 7).  So technically not a net-loss.

I haven't bought any costumes, I didn't agree with some of the pricing (fiery huntress my immediate response on seeing it was "THAT is a skin I'd pay $10 for" and then they wanted $30).  I also didn't like the cost on the abyss lord or the hard cap on medals being exactly the same as the cost for a new hero (12,000).  And yes, I disagree with the decision to phase out wyvern tokens, I thought that was dumb.  I think the reason they did it was so that people (by which I mean everybody) couldn't free-purchase the abyss lord day 1.

The abyss lord is the most OP hero in the game and I don't like it, but apparently that's the benchmark for the "new balance."  (Ignoring the strategy revamp, of course).  His "super tower" is the colossus.  And yes, you can only build 1 (per abyss lord you have in your collection; someone did some really silly stuff because of that).

EV2 I dislike in so many ways.  So many.  You have no idea how much I hate her kit.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: broilab on October 13, 2016, 04:38:20 AM
Duke Nukem Forever
Plumbers Don't Wear Ties

They are the worst.
Title: Re: The worst space game ever?
Post by: Mánagarmr on October 13, 2016, 08:34:49 AM
Duke Nukem Forever
Plumbers Don't Wear Ties

They are the worst.

Uh not even close. Duke Nukem Forever may be a bland, run of the mill shooter, but it is in no way *bad*. It's an average shooter at best, but not bad in any way.