Author Topic: The "trap" of PvE game mastery?  (Read 1353 times)

Offline TechSY730

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The "trap" of PvE game mastery?
« on: February 13, 2011, 09:13:11 pm »
Do you think it is possible to master a PvE game so much you do not find that game fun anymore, no matter what stuff you try with it? Do you think such a point exists for all PvE games due to their fundamental nature?

In some games (say for instance, AI war), there may be ways of increasing difficulty. But what I am beginning to suspect that there comes a point where you become so skilled, there is no way to make the game harder without adding tedious grind (which isn't really harder, just longer), or making it "unwinnable".
I also suspect there eventually comes a point that no matter how much new variety is injected into the game, once that expert sees how this new stuff works, they are very quickly able to integrate it or overcome just as well as they could the older tools, thus only provide a very short period of actual fun challenge. Even if the environment is dynamically generated, you can get to the point where you know how to deal with every possible configuration it can spit out.

Note, this only applies to PvE games. PvP does not fall under the same sort of "trap", because other players learn as you learn, thus keeping the game (or metagame, in this case) in flux and thus part of the fun is staying in touch with it as it changes. (Though even then, near optimal solutions to the game can be found, and thus it does deteriorate to executing the near same every time optimal path, thus leading to a different "trap". Just look a tic-tac-toe for a worst case example)

I ask this because based on some feedback I have seen, we have a few AI war players that are so skilled, they are very close to reaching this sort of point.

Sorry if this post isn't very clear. Expressing pretty complicated ideas clearly in a "first draft" is not one of my strong points.

Offline x4000

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Re: The "trap" of PvE game mastery?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 09:56:56 pm »
It depends on the frequency of play, I think.  I tend to play strategy games only about 6 hours per week at most, sometimes as low as 3 hours.  But I play them for a very long time in months.  In terms of AI War, it's never gotten old on this schedule, largely because the game keeps changing and so forth.  I play 4-player co-op, and the dynamics of us cooperating (or failing to do so) also tend to make the game a lot more interesting over the long haul.

If you just play solo, and play a huge number of hours per week... I think that with any game, past a certain point, you're going to burn yourself out, plain and simple.  Partly for the obvious reasons, but also because you don't have time to mentally recharge. 

When I was in high school, I played tennis 2-3 hours per day, 6-7 days per week, for three years.  It was intense, and I was in extremely good shape at all times, but my actual skills at the game would tend to plateau despite whatever smaller improvements I was incrementally making to my serve, my net game, or whatever. 

However, on occasion I would have a break of a week or two, either because it was between seasons or it was family vacation, or a holiday, etc.  During these times off, tennis would fade out of my life for a bit during a welcome break, and it would stop filling my subconscious and my dreams.  And yet apparently my subconscious would still be working away, because when I'd come back after the break, I'd be jittery and rusty for the first hour or so, but then markedly better after that -- for good, usually, unless I fell back into some bad habits like lazy footwork in 100 degree heat.

My point is that when you're engaged too intensely in any single activity for too long a time, your ability to innovate and process goes way down.  You start falling into ruts, and the whole thing can be frustrating.  I can remember giving up in tiebreakers in some second sets in ladder matches because I simply wanted to go home rather than being forced into a contentious third set.  That third set would have been winnable, but it would have been just way too much of a grind and I was tired, bored, etc.  I knew just how it would play out, despite never having played this opponent before.

So what I'm saying is that I know how those folks feel, but I don't think it has anything to do with PvE, or any specific game.  I played Counter-strike ridiculously frequently for a few years -- and GoldenEye before that, and Mario Kart 64 around that same time -- and those all fell into the same ruts for me.  I've learned that the key to my personally being able to enjoy games for a long time is to take them in some moderation, rather than all in one big guzzling gulp.  Sure, when there's a new game or a new expansion or a set of new features that are exciting, it's great to play long and hard for a while.  I still do that.  But that sort of intensity just can't be sustained indefinitely, for months and months, is what I mean.  Eventually everyone burns out when they try to do that with any game.  Hell, that even happened to me a bit when I was in Chess club, because I was just playing way too much Chess.  After I was out of Chess club and playing online on Yahoo! more occasionally, my online rating shot up 200 points.  Go figure.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: The "trap" of PvE game mastery?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 10:12:21 pm »
(Quote really long. If you want to read it, look above)

That makes a lot of sense. Even "deep" games can get "stale" if you play them too much.

Now I know what to say the next time someone complains the game is too easy and bumping up the difficulty makes it seem "grindy" for them. ;)