Author Topic: The state of the industry  (Read 5205 times)

Offline Misery

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The state of the industry
« on: February 22, 2016, 06:30:34 am »
So, I dunno how many here have heard, but there's a particular debacle right now spinning around the recent release of Street Fighter 5.  The game came out incomplete.  I dont mean rushed, either... I mean LITERALLY incomplete.  It doesnt even have an arcade mode.  All that stuff "will be added later".  Capcom's stated reason is "they need to grab the attention of the pros ASAP!!!" so they released it early to do so.  But of course, this means they released what is still very definitely an early-access product, as a COMPLETELY FINISHED one, sold at absolute full price.  Once again, they're making consumers buy a promise from them.  A promise from a publisher already proven many times over to be untrustworthy (though, really, what major publisher isnt?)

And I'm watching arguements flare back and forth on video comments sections and forums, and watching people defend the funky hell out of this sort of thing... even the fighting game community itself, diving in to defend it's precious flagship title (despite that what Capcom has done is already pushing away lots of potential NEW players entirely and permanently, thus lowering potential community growth... which you'd think the FGC would want in order to support their game, but I guess that'd make too much sense) despite the problems around it, and despite the practices of this publisher.

Now, to their credit, Capcom has promised that the missing content (and nearly all of it is missing) will be given to players for free as time goes on.  Slowly, but free.  I give them credit for that, for not being EA and deciding to charge for little bits of it.

But I also think... is this really what the industry has come to now?  That people DEFEND this sort of practice?  It sure as hell isnt just THIS game.   There's been all sorts of problems of this nature (not just "unfinished" games, that's just the current example), over and over and over, and these companies lead their loyal fans into it like lemmings into a giant blender (or other giant lethal obstacle, those games were full of them).  At the same time though, while those fans still buy and defend, they continue to get more and more angry.  More and more finally hit a snapping point, and decide they've had enough.  But the problems continue, and these companies continue to act this way and pull this crap left and right.

And of course, talk of an industry crash looms hard once again, as it does every time this happens.  And it occurred to me:  At this point... I actually kinda WANT it to happen.  I think I might be genuinely entertained/satisfied by seeing it happen.  And I absolutely mean that.  And to me, that view... which I *never* would have even THOUGHT of 10 years ago... says that the industry as a whole has fallen HARD.  That it's... corrupted, almost.  Or at least that's my word for it.

Hell, I avoid AAA games like the plague these days, as I often say.  I get most of my gaming from indie devs like Arcen here, since that's where I'm going to find the good thing, and good companies that wont try to suck my money out my nose.   I didn't used to actively avoid specific companies.  But now I do it so regularly that I dont even think about it anymore.  When did THAT start?  It's depressing to think about it really...

And here at the Arcen forums, we've got quite an intelligent and actually friendly group populating this place, so I figured I'd do what I'd never, ever do at ANY other forum I go to:  Start a conversation about this whole mess, because I'm rather interested to see what you all think about it.

So tell me... what are your thoughts on this?  What do you think of the state of the industry?  What are your experiences with it these days, and what are your opinions on current trends and behaviors?  And where do you think it's headed?

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 07:48:27 am »
Fanboyism is an extremely strong force. To me it's absolutely unfathomable that this happens. If I pay full price for a product then I better sure get a full product.

I personally have a growing blacklist of companies I refuse to do business with. I've found that my gaming hobby has become just like music. I don't buy any music from big brands or record labels. If I'm buying I'm buying directly from the artist or not at all. I have enough music, I can live without their music if I can't pay them directly.

It's kinda the same with games. I don't want to give big publishers my money for a game that a studio put together. I wanna pay that studio. Mostly because the publishers don't give a rats ass about neither the game nor me as a customer. Usually they're ridden with "micro" transactions, bugs, limitations and "premium pack"-DLCs and still cost $60. Not to mention they're very often tired recycles of older games or yearly franchise releases. It's tiresome and incredibly uninteresting.

The most AAA game I've played lately is Dark Souls 2. I've not played a single AAA-style game in an entire year it feels like. Unless Wolfenstein counts, I guess it does. But it at least tried to be true to the source material.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 07:53:15 am by Mánagarmr »
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 07:50:57 am »
The AAA big boys are headed for a crash, that much is certain, it's just that I don't know when. I mean, I don't even have to speculate, I can just point to facts. The fact is that AAA is more scared then ever to innovate and try new things. They pump millions of dollars into games and get bad returns on them. So, they respond by trying to Triple Dip on their customers. A tactic that always has a short term gain and long term loss. I currently speculate a lot of their problems are the result of marketing departments that have too much power and no one keeping them in check. So, they set a date for a game's release and when that game's release comes, the game isn't ready so they rush it out. Because marketing refuses to change its date. It's the only thing that explains some of the completely insane business decisions for the past couple of years. EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc need to change but I don't see it happening in time.

As for Street Fighter 5, it only confirms what people have been suspecting for a long time. That AAA developers are now on the Early Access gravy train without actually admitting it in public. This is a release in a long line of releases including Mortal Kombat X, Star Wars: Battlefront (2015) and so on that have been really incomplete. But they get pushed out anyway with the promise of more features. Like every other early access game. They just have the gall to charge $60 + microtransactions + season passes + DLC and so on. At least Early access guys don't generally do that.

I think the closest I get to AAA is Hi-Rez, Paradox and Bethesda Entertainment titles (The Wolfenstein reboot series, Cities Skylines, Paladins/SMITE etc). Oh, I guess I play Square Enix titles from time to time now that I think about it. But with AAA, I'm extremely picky. I sniff any DRM, any microtransaction scheme and I'm out. I quite literally have better games to play than bash my head on a game that doesn't respect my time. I don't know how long the market is going to tolerate the triple dipping that's going on. I'd be curious to hear what their sales figures are. But sooner or later, this Premium experience is going to tire people out.

I do not know what to think of the new trend of splitting up games into episodic versions other than it being an extremely desperate decision. I mean, I still think episodic as a business model can work but the entire game has to be built with it in mind. And now we're seeing games (like the new Hitman) being made episodic after much of its development has been done. I see nothing but failure.

The indie flood on Steam is also headed for that same crash. We had a lot of indie successes over the past 5 years show us that there's money to be had. But then way too many decided that THERE'S GOLD IN THE MOUNTAINS and have been flooding the market with more games than can be supported. Now, we're starting to see successes even out and the indie market balance out. Which is probably going to mean the closure of multiple studios that we won't want to see go. Indie devs that have experienced a lot of success in the past are likely to see that same success blunted. Also, hopefully see a severe drop off of garbage in the near future. I'd love it to be this year but that's wishful thinking.....*sigh*.

But all that being said, 2015 was a really great year for gaming in general. So, I have a lot of hope that 2016 will continue to build on that....even though we've already been off to a rocky start >_<....
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Offline x4000

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 01:35:29 pm »
My thoughts:

1. Things are hard for developers and publishers.
2. Players have more choice than ever, and a lot of it is good.
3. A lot of the things players are able to choose from are essentially "one hit wonders" made on an infeasibly low budget for normal purposes.
4. Players are clamoring for ever-better graphics and production values and so forth in general on the AAA side, which leads to spiraling budgets.
5. Which leads to conservatism in design on the AAA side -- of course.
6. You've got the typical capitalistic forces at work, leading to a variety of ills both on the developer and player side.
7. Overall both players and developers tend to assume that one-off windfalls (either in awesomeness in the former or money in the latter) are actually the status quo.  This then leads to dangerous expectations on both sides.
8. Discount culture versus price inflation are a huge war.  It's complicated, but I think is what is leading to a lot of these incomplete games and nickel and diming (which is really ten and twenty dollaring).  Note: this is not an apology for the practices we hate, but combined with #6 I think it mostly explains those practices' origin.
9. In general things are way more complicated than the 8 points I have above, but I've lost my train of thought.
10. If there's a "crash," I think it's more like a slow tumble.  There's no overall market index here to just suddenly have a Black Tuesday event.  Things are too decentralized to bury copies of ET in the desert.  If there's a crash, it's going to be a mixed-state sort of situation (in the bipolar spectrum disorder sense).

...and back to work for me. ;)
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 04:23:15 pm »
so yea the industry definitely isn't in the best state at the moment BUT it could defiantly be a hell of a lot worse now a crash would cause a lot of harm obviously but it would theoretically actually sort of deal with the saturation issue we seem to be having.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 06:06:45 pm »
I've been looking at the industry like the realestate market was 20 years ago.  We're at the point at which people are able to say "look there's a problem" but not enough conviction to do anything more than buy in to the hype (which is part of the problem).

I mean, gamers are terrible at boycotting games and companies.

But once people start going "ok, no more" publishers will start feeling the pinch.  Eventually the whole charade will collapse.

Offline Misery

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 10:35:23 pm »
Fanboyism is an extremely strong force. To me it's absolutely unfathomable that this happens. If I pay full price for a product then I better sure get a full product.

I personally have a growing blacklist of companies I refuse to do business with. I've found that my gaming hobby has become just like music. I don't buy any music from big brands or record labels. If I'm buying I'm buying directly from the artist or not at all. I have enough music, I can live without their music if I can't pay them directly.

It's kinda the same with games. I don't want to give big publishers my money for a game that a studio put together. I wanna pay that studio. Mostly because the publishers don't give a rats ass about neither the game nor me as a customer. Usually they're ridden with "micro" transactions, bugs, limitations and "premium pack"-DLCs and still cost $60. Not to mention they're very often tired recycles of older games or yearly franchise releases. It's tiresome and incredibly uninteresting.

The most AAA game I've played lately is Dark Souls 2. I've not played a single AAA-style game in an entire year it feels like. Unless Wolfenstein counts, I guess it does. But it at least tried to be true to the source material.


Yeah.  What really baffles me though is HOW some of these people defend this stuff.

In the case of SF5, with it's debacle still ongoing and not likely to stop anytime soon, the central defense is always this:  "Capcom had been completely transparent about this to being with!  You idiots are at fault, you didn't listen when they talked about this!".  Nobody ever stops to think about the NUMEROUS problems with this idea.  For example, not everyone has time to go browsing news sites all the time to catch this info... and even if they do browse those, they're often only going to look at FRONT PAGE articles; things relevant to this can end up scrolled out quickly.  And of course even genre fans dont necessarily read that stuff either, or follow Capcom directly... I know I dont.  Or there are those with bad internet that CANT get at that info much, and that tend to buy games like this for the single-player stuff (and anyone that does this is a "filthy casual" to the FGC, and thus not an important consumer... the all-important PRO SCENE is what TRULY holds it together, all on it's own! They dont need any influx of new players to join that ever!  Capcom doesnt need customers that arent them!), or just for wacky local matches with friends.  Or gift situations... no parent is going to know about this when buying the game for their kid to play with his/her friends, or something like that.  Or any other reason for buying it as a gift.   

Capcom was never "transparent" about it.  Not at all.  To me, they were devious and sneaky.  Giving enough info to pretty much just the most vocal parts of their community, getting them on their side and defending them, while at the same time being able to keep that info from spreading too wide and causing people not to dive in and buy the game immediately.  Real transparency is more like how early access is done on Steam:  Every game on there is VERY CLEARLY labeled as such, right on the store page.  Followed by a description of the devs plans for the EA phase, and usually descriptions of what's missing, when it's coming, and how they're going to go about it. 

For real transparency, Capcom would have had to actually print this out, ON THE BOX, saying something like "Street Fighter 5: Early Access edition" right on the front of the box, letting people know that hey, you can basically try the game this way, but it's NOT the full game.  Buy it if this is OK to you.  Instead.... nope.  It's not made obvious in that way.  It's about as transparent as a brick wall.

And that's just them of course... the other ones that really bug me are these "episodic" games now.  That, I consider a really nasty practice.  It's letting them get away with selling those as full products even easier than before, and usually the reasons for splitting these games up are total crap.  And then each piece gets sold at a high price.  To me, this is even worse than microtransactions. 

Or you get that "season pass" crap... yet again, a publisher selling a promise.  I remember a time when games would have expansion packs (usually MMOs), and they'd appear on the shelves WHEN THEY RELEASED, which is when you were then able to pay for them, and they contained exactly what they said they did.  No promises, just real content right there in the box for you to install and use.  When exactly did that change?  When and how did this new way of doing things become acceptable to people? When did it become okay to sell non-existent things? I always wonder that question, and I can never quite figure out an answer.

I mean, "early access" stuff, I dont have a problem with.  I've been taking part in alpha/beta testing for a very long time... waaaayyyyyy before that term was even thought up.  Back when it really was just called "beta testing" and you pretty much never had to pay for it, even when the game was from a big company; sometimes you had to APPLY for it, but you didn't actually need to PAY until the final release.  It is a bit annoying to have to pay for it usually now, but at the same time when I grab an early access game it's from a smaller dev, and I dont mind supporting them as they continue to make the game, since they probably need it. 


And yeah, I havent really bought into any AAA game in... a long while.  Probably the closest I came to that was Anno, in recent years.  Anno 2070 was VERY worth it.  But the newest one is corrupted by the usual crap that's going around these days... I was so disappointed and angered.   Since then it's either been just indie games for me, or some things on Nintendo's console (as they havent started pulling any of this crap as of yet; I know I'm going to get a COMPLETE game when buying from them.  Usually.)

And I'm sure glad I didn't buy into SF5, ugh.  But then, I kinda expected Capcom would do something like that.  It's sad that it's gotten to that point where I just automatically expect that of all of the major publishers now. 


I've been looking at the industry like the realestate market was 20 years ago.  We're at the point at which people are able to say "look there's a problem" but not enough conviction to do anything more than buy in to the hype (which is part of the problem).

I mean, gamers are terrible at boycotting games and companies.

But once people start going "ok, no more" publishers will start feeling the pinch.  Eventually the whole charade will collapse.


That... I'm not sure if that's hilarious or depressing.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 10:47:37 pm »
This problems ocurs me for some time. The clear problem is, the industry will publish everything people will buy. And this is probably the best example of how stupid this works.
Capcom publishs a unfinished game and fans buy it, defend it. This signals to Capcom "Hey, people buy our product anyway, so why should weworry in the future? Let's cut even more from it.". There is no prrof that capcom will ever deliver this features that the game lacks (but I think they will, the problem is, they shouldn't have delivered the game in the first place when it's not finished).
If you buy stuff from people, you signal them, that you like it the way it is. and developers/publishers, in particular big AAA publishers, are lazy as hell. They will do as much as they have to but not more if they don't profit from it. o people buy it without Arcade Mode? Let's just cut it out entirely. Hell, know what? Let's CHARGE in the future for it as extra DLC.

This whole industry suffers from this thinking more and more and developers introduce new mehods to sell unfinished games and sell the content you need to play the whole experience as extra.
Either if it are special, deluxe editions of a game (for example Dungeon of the endless that offers an entire segment of the game as deluxe package), DLC content ("Day one DLC") or episodic games.
Charging for extra content is a small line between greed and honest development. One of the most sttupid exampley I came ever across is Darkout. I don't own the game, so keep in mind I can only tell that much what I found out by reading news (from the developers, from third parties).

The game started, like many of it's kind as an early access sandbox game but they promised a deep lore and story mode to differetiate from similiar games (like for example Starbound,w hich was also on EA at that time). And, again like many of it's relatives, it also started to get problems with fundings. development took too long, the developers calculated, that EA will fund the game instead of looking for other ways to fund it beforehand (what you should do in EA to begin with), so they faced the truth that they cannot continue development. So what plan do they have? They thought about Kickstarter but the lead developer said int the news the following:

"There have been suggestions on multiple occasions that we should start a Kickstarter campaign to raise money to finish the project, and we’ve actually thought about doing something like that for a long time. What holds us back is the fact that we don’t want to just ask for more money for Darkout, which you already own and paid for, and we don’t have any marketing budget at all to help spread the word beyond our current fanbase."

So in other words: He does not want to charge his customers again for a game that they bought already because they bougth it with the intention of having a finished product in the end.
HOWEVEr he clearly has soemthign else in mind: Sell the rest of the game as sperate DLC. This means the story content, additional stuff (items, resources, enemies, whatever there is in this game) and the ending of the game itself. So he says on the one side, he doe not want to charge for the game again but still charges for future stuff that has to be in the game but isn't. Genius.
To make it clear, what his really intention is: Kickstarter is a one-time funding, you present soemthign, you get your funding, when the funding time is over you have that much money and nothing more. And you HAVE to finish the game with what you get from there, nothing more. So he has to rely on what he gets from there or if he gets everything he needs to begin with. And if he screws up again (which is likely, he didn't do it right the first time) with the calculations, he has to stop the game development a second time and begging for a second time and... well, you know where this leads.. So how do you guarantee a ongoing funding that even exceeds after the game has been finished? DLC. Like all greedy developers, when you split the game in multiple parts, sell them as DLC, you can charge more for what is actually one finished product. This has nothuing to do with funding to begin with, this is clearly greed at it's peak.
And to make the whole scene more bizarre, he wrote also that the team will now start a SECOND game with what is left from the money, a smaller one that they can finish, that will fund the FIRST game. I think I don't have to mention, said second game never came out.
I was inetrested in this game while it was in EA but for some reason I didn't buy it back then.Looking now at it I'm glad. This is soem really messed up stuff and you have to feel really bitter about it.

The other thing I want to mention is Starforge: It was the typical sandbox survival 3D game that flood Steam (because it's popular or at least it used to be and now people are annoyed by it but developers still start their own versions of the same crap over and over).
Starforge looked promising, it had some unique features. It started with a Fort Defense mode that is actually a tower defense mode, you build turrets, enemies arrive in waves and you have to defend your fort. Thsi was really early in development but I worked more or less. There was also planned a deep RPG gameplay for the game. You could train different attributes and improve your char, so you can collect faster resources or deal more damage etc. They implemented a prototype of that as well and it worked.
You see, the key is, they made a lot of prototypes but never finished anything. And then funding ceased. And they had to fire a lot from their big staff (people say the developers had a too big staff for an indie newcomer). Graphic developers, that worked for them, took their models and textures with them, when they left, because Code Hatch was too dumb to cover this in the contracts. In the end the game was released in an unfinished state, a lot of the features mentioned above (the prototypes) were removed entirely because the developers saw it easier to remove them instead of working on them. we had to live with placeholder graphics and a buggy mess. The screenshots ot the front page are mostly fake (or at least they are from astate where the game didn't look like the mess it is now) but since big parts of the game were taken away, the game looks nothing like what you see there. The fans were disappointed, more so because Code Hatch said they won't develop at the game anymore unless it suddenly would have a big spike in the sales (which was impossible because of the state of the game).
They than started a new project. it was entirely the same thing with a new look. They changed the space theme to medieval one but in it's core it was the same: Sandbox in Early access. And again, sometime in the development, money got low, game was labeled "finished" and released in a messy state.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. people who bougth the second game deserve no better, it was clear fromt he start that Code Hatch tried the same scam again. And got awqay with it again. Whatever they are planning now, they don't get a hold in the gaming industry anymore, people remember such terrible moments.

The problem is, such thinking is not the exception, it happens all the time and currently Steam is flooded with such titles and developers who just want a piece of the cake and disappear when they got it. And as logn as people continue to support this crap, they will get away with it. If other developers see, that other got away with it, they will follow the example. And developers that are truly dedicated toward their projects, like Arce games, will go under in this flood, just because people are ignorant and by all the shit they get served. And then they cry "scam!" and want a refund. these people don't deserve it better. If they blindly follow them, they have to face that it's their own fault. I followed Starforge, I won't make the mistake twice. I totally ignored their second project when it started because I KNEW they woudl scam the people again. And I was right.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:50:56 pm by TheVampire100 »

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 10:51:39 pm »
hey so misery I've been thinking I want to ask you(of course any body else can say what they think on this part as well but its more directed at you) if the industry did theoretically did crash  do you think it would actually benefit this industry in the long term even though you seem to want to see it happen? obviously it wouldn't in the short term for yet more obvious reasons but (providing the industry managed to actually recover) if the people involved learned from the mistakes of the past(among other things) do you think it would a better industry than what it is currently like now?.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:56:18 pm by crazyroosterman »
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 11:15:07 pm »
I should clarify what I mean by crash. I'm not saying crash as in what happened to the US console market back when ET was released. (Which let's be real, videogames still managed fine from Japan and Personal Computers). I'm saying crash as in EA, Ubisoft and other publishers that follow this model will go bankrupt and those genre of games they were in will see a sharp reduction in releases. (So, generic open world adventure games and FPSes). We've already seen multiple crashes since the US console market one. We've seen the crash of Real-Time-Strategy, Hidden-Object-Adventure gaming, Episodic Gaming and cRPGs, just to name a few. Those genres crashed in the late 1990s and early ~2000s and only recently made a recovery and resurgence. I mean, cRPGs just up and died and mass culture didn't lament it until 2010s. RTSes are starting to make a comeback with Grey Goo, Homeworld and the couple of RTSes coming from Stardock and the like but it'll probably remain slow for the time being. Episodic/Adventure gaming saw its resurgence with Telltale Games. cRPGs have made a massive resurgence in the last couple of years which I find just crazy but cool at the same time. 

So while I do say crash melodramatically, it's not something that's going to kill gaming. Gaming seems to be a very resilient industry that ebbs and flows but I don't see it stopping dead anytime soon unless something unprecedented happens. But I can't even imagine what that would be because there are so many players (figuratively and literally) that will keep gaming going.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 11:35:11 pm »
To me a crash would be the loss of the large industry companies that only produce large, cookie cutter games with increasing graphical fidelity and lackluster (or outright lacking!) gameplay.

There would still be good games with good graphics, there would still be indie studios, there would still be innovation on making things look better, but it would be on the technology end of things: getting more fidelity for less work. There would be a surge in tools, editors, and cheap assets, all marketed towards the low budget indie development team.

Game companies would go from corporations of hundreds to loose organizations of a handful of small teams, working on multiple projects and sharing resourses. Think having an art team making characters and props which get used to build a platformer, a TD, and a RPG game all at once, with a couple of people writing story to tie the three games together into one narrative. It's the ultimate in reused assets.

Offline Coppermantis

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 01:16:10 am »
\
I mean, gamers are terrible at boycotting games and companies.
\

I read that that was a 4chan manipulation. I have no way to confirm that, but I'm staying skeptical. That in no way disproves your point, of course.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 01:28:45 am »
I thought it was common knowledge that the early release of streetfighter was due to the tournament events calendar? It's not really a casual title.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 01:51:35 am »
I thought it was common knowledge that the early release of streetfighter was due to the tournament events calendar? It's not really a casual title.

It wasn't though. And in NO way did Capcom ever say in their promotional material (trailers or otherwise) that it was being released for the pros. It was only once the game was on Steam making money that some press managed to wring out of Capcom that they were doing it. That is scummy. As. Hell.

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Offline Misery

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Re: The state of the industry
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 02:31:31 am »
I thought it was common knowledge that the early release of streetfighter was due to the tournament events calendar? It's not really a casual title.

Only common among the FGC.  And even then, in there.... there were still plenty that didn't know about it.  The reason why it might sound more common is because those in THAT community have been rambling and generally whining about it REALLY LOUDLY because everyone ELSE is having a super-negative response to their beloved Street Fighter.  The idea that it's common knowledge is entirely created by the FGC alone.  Capcom really did as much as they could to prevent that info from getting out to the GENERAL public.  The FGC, as ALWAYS, thinks that not only are they the kings of the hill, but that they're the only ones ON the hill.  That they're all that matter.  Needless to say it's not really possible for them to be any further from the truth, but their sheer ego allows them to believe nothing else.  But this means that by appeasing the core members (AKA biggest jerks, the way I see it) of that group, they got EXTREMELY vocal people on their side.  What's more, they got extremely vocal people on their side in a situation where those vocal people wouldnt start their freakout until the release had already happened.  In other words, the vocal group wouldnt spread the info that Capcom wanted to keep close to home... until Capcom triggered it themselves. Which caused that info, potentially damaging if sent out to the general public too early, to then become something that DEFENDS them in a way.  It's a downright devious plan... I almost have to applaud whoever came up with it, just for how carefully done it was.   But it's still a NASTY one.  As KingIsaacLinksr says, scummy as hell.   The norm for Capcom these days.  They're not EA or Activision, but they're doing their absolute best to catch up to those guys.   Of course... such a plan isnt perfect, and I dont think they anticipated just how violent the response would be from those that DO have a problem with it.  Steam's review count is pretty bad for them right now.  42% positive on this flagship title of theirs (needless to say, the number of total reviews is already pretty darn big).  One way or another... that must be doing some damage.  Even some of those in the FGC that, in previous years, would have defended them, are starting to say... no, Capcom, this is like the 8th time you've pulled this... you know what, I'm done, screw you.   Of course, it's impossible to see just what the final result will be.


many words and things


Ah, yes... I remember Starforge.  I remember the point when warning signs for that game started to really pop up.   But people just kept going after it anyway, because ZOMG PRETTY GRAFIX as usual.  These days all you have to do is show enough flash and flair, and you have people attached and ready to buy.   When the game finally "released", it wasnt a surprise to me what had happened to it.  Though, I too had dumped some money on it waaaayyyyyyy early on, which was annoying.  But it still just didn't surprise me.   That they had the gall to then do that again though... and that it WORKED.... that did kinda surprise me, with the stupidity of those that bought into it.

I remember Miner Wars was very similar in that regard.  It released missing a TON of things that were promised early on.  I had been so interested in that game for the longest time. Initially it looked like a combination of Descent and Minecraft in SPAAAAAACE, with super fast combat and all.... and I was like, sign me up!!!   And then it releases, aaaaaand.... extremely linear story mode.  And that's about it. It took a million billion years for them to make, too.  Now, the good thing is that the developers of that game redeemed the hell out of themselves almost immediately by then going and making Space Engineers... nobody really doubts the value of THAT game, and everyone can play it during development.  Everyone seems to love it.  I havent touched it myself in ages, but sooner or later I will.  So, kudos to them for getting it right the second time.  But that seems really rare; so many out there wouldnt CARE to get it right.  Which is the part of all of this that's so sad.  I hate that the industry has become this way. 

To me a crash would be the loss of the large industry companies that only produce large, cookie cutter games with increasing graphical fidelity and lackluster (or outright lacking!) gameplay.

There would still be good games with good graphics, there would still be indie studios, there would still be innovation on making things look better, but it would be on the technology end of things: getting more fidelity for less work. There would be a surge in tools, editors, and cheap assets, all marketed towards the low budget indie development team.

Game companies would go from corporations of hundreds to loose organizations of a handful of small teams, working on multiple projects and sharing resourses. Think having an art team making characters and props which get used to build a platformer, a TD, and a RPG game all at once, with a couple of people writing story to tie the three games together into one narrative. It's the ultimate in reused assets.

This is pretty much what my idea of a crash is as well, right now.   I think the effect would be very similar to the seismic crash of doom that centered around Atari all those years ago, but now the industry is big and varied enough that it's not going to blow the entire thing to hell in any one region or anything like that.  But it'd still do ALOT of damage... just not to everyone.  The big companies putting out all the things that are causing the problems, and that are the ones creating more and more obsession with graphics would be the central ones to collapse.  It'd be a huge effect, but there'd just be so much more room for it to happen now that it's not going to wipe out everything.


hey so misery I've been thinking I want to ask you(of course any body else can say what they think on this part as well but its more directed at you) if the industry did theoretically did crash  do you think it would actually benefit this industry in the long term even though you seem to want to see it happen? obviously it wouldn't in the short term for yet more obvious reasons but (providing the industry managed to actually recover) if the people involved learned from the mistakes of the past(among other things) do you think it would a better industry than what it is currently like now?.

And yes, I do tend to think it'd be a good thing.  More and more these days, in places I frequent, I hear the same thing over and over again:  People for whom gaming is their main hobby finding themselves not playing many games at all recently, because there's nothing GOOD anymore.  And the big guys, those greedy publishers, have drilled into their heads the idea that the big AAA games and similar things are literally all there is.  I try to explain to them that there ARE other places to look, other things to try, but those ideas are too ingrained now.  They dont want to try those "silly little garage games" (I forgot where I heard that term, but it fits the derision that usually goes with this).  Those are for kiddies!  And as always, they say this without ever looking at them.  In the case of a crash, it's going to possibly show that, underneath all that rubble... there's been all this other stuff the whole time.  And it's GOOD.  And it shows that games DONT have to be about flair and flash, that maybe... just maybe... the big guys had alot of it wrong the whole time.   It might allow new ideas out into the spotlight finally, and get people thinking of the stuff that made it all go wrong.  Maybe make them less prone to falling for it AGAIN in the future, having seen the damage it did.

And on the rare occaision when trying to get someone into other types of games works, the result is always the same... how did they not find those before?  They're so great!  They'll never go back to the AAA stuff!  They wish they'd found it sooner!   And this is followed by a facedesk moment from me usually.