Author Topic: The 2 new games from Arcen  (Read 6399 times)

Offline zespri

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The 2 new games from Arcen
« on: April 07, 2013, 05:44:21 pm »
Gosh, I just stopped checking the forum for a week or two and then when I come back there is Exodus of the Machine? Skyward Collapse? At first I thought it's a wrong forum!!! How is SH selling? Good enough for a possible expansion?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 07:14:29 pm by zespri »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 05:52:04 pm »
Gosh, I just stopped checking the forum for a week or two and then when I come back there is Exodus of the Machine? Skyward Collapse? At first I thought it's a wrong forum!!!
If it sounds insane, you're probably in the right place :)

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How is SH selling?
Not well at all.  Like Tidalis did during its opening phase, possibly a bit worse.  We're still doing decently overall (no doom and gloom like there was after Tidalis's release; Valley2 is actually stepping up to fill some of the gap) but something's gotta improve or some staff reduction is inevitable.

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Good enough for a possible expansion?
That's not totally out of the question, but it's not an automatic yes, either.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 08:05:31 pm »
Not well at all.  Like Tidalis did during its opening phase, possibly a bit worse. 

You guys need to make use of focus groups. Chris is all about worrying for his staff members jobs, but he always seems to make the game that he wants to make instead of thinking of that first. This is what happened with Tidalis, also. He was told multiple times that it was a match three in a sea of match three, and in spite of great reviews (it is a good game), it's not going to sell. The same thing is going to happen with shattered Haven. Not because it isn't a good game (I'm enjoying it), but it doesn't focus well amidst games of the same genre.

You have to decide between making the games that you want to make regardless of whether or not they sell, or working on focus groups and trying to find a happy medium between what gamers want to buy and what you want to make.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 08:24:37 pm »
You guys need to make use of focus groups.
How would one go about that?  I'm familiar with the term but generally it's been in connection with enormous corporations rounding up groups of people to take polls and various forms of A/B testing to figure out what color to make their new snack food logo, etc.  I'm not saying it doesn't work for them (small attempt at humor aside), but I'm not sure what you mean by the term in our case.

FWIW over the years we have been putting a lot more effort (and money, and time) towards PR, marketing, and otherwise increasing the chances that our hard work won't miss 95% of its potential sales because everyone who looks at the store page bounces off the trailer or whatever.  That includes making sure the idea is saleable before we really get into it.  This is not our area of expertise, and frankly it's a problem I don't enjoy trying to solve (and have personally brushed off in the past as not-my-problem), but as you and others have pointed out it's a problem we have to solve if we want good financial results.

So perhaps focus groups are a next step on that path (hopefully that "the Dark Side" sign a few miles back was just joking), but some reference material would be helpful.

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but he always seems to make the game that he wants to make instead
I can understand if it looks that way, but we are actually acutely aware of the tension between "what we'd like to do if it were 100% up to us" and "what we need to do to for financial reasons".

Shattered Haven was actually very cheap to make, compared to even Tidalis, because so much of the work had already been done back before AIW.  So even though it really underperformed financially it wasn't actually a bad call (even in retrospect) to make that game.  Whether it's a good call to make an expansion, that's a different question.

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This is what happened with Tidalis, also. He was told multiple times that it was a match three in a sea of match three, and in spite of great reviews (it is a good game), it's not going to sell.
From what we've heard from other developers Tidalis actually did pretty well for a game of its genre.  We just spent too much making it to reasonably expect a good return.


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You have to decide between making the games that you want to make regardless of whether or not they sell, or working on focus groups and trying to find a happy medium between what gamers want to buy and what you want to make.
Believe it or not: we know :)
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2013, 12:57:30 am »
Still waiting for that Arcengames 4x genre revolution ;)
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Offline zespri

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2013, 03:28:34 am »
I just went ahead and bought another copy of Ancient Shadow on Steam. Let me know if you financial situation considerably improves as a result =)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2013, 10:04:57 am »
Still waiting for that Arcengames 4x genre revolution ;)
Speaking of games that I'd like to make but don't think would be wise financially at this time :)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 10:07:25 am »
I just went ahead and bought another copy of Ancient Shadow on Steam. Let me know if you financial situation considerably improves as a result =)
Well, thank you for your support ;)

When we give frank answers to financial questions, though, it's not that we're trying to squeeze y'all for more money.  The overall population of the active (or even semi-active) community here makes for a lot of very good feedback, but in order for it to actually be a primary financial support would be numerically unreasonable :)
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Offline RCIX

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2013, 12:19:57 pm »
Well, I'll probably be picking up Exodus of the Machine and the next AI war expansion when they hit beta, so there's that. Always worth contributing to a small company with good products and services :)

Still waiting for that Arcengames 4x genre revolution ;)
Speaking of games that I'd like to make but don't think would be wise financially at this time :)
Doesn't AI war count as that? Not that it's a pure 4x, but...
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 12:23:26 pm by RCIX »
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2013, 12:53:36 pm »
Doesn't AI war count as that? Not that it's a pure 4x, but...

Nope.

If you can play game with no fog of war, it ain't 4x.

If you can play with no diplomacy, it isn't either.
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Offline LordSloth

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2013, 12:57:08 pm »
Edit: Unnecessary quoting removed (it was the last two posts for crying out loud)

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« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 01:00:19 pm by LordSloth »

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2013, 02:54:28 pm »
Well, I'll probably be picking up Exodus of the Machine and the next AI war expansion when they hit beta, so there's that. Always worth contributing to a small company with good products and services :)

Still waiting for that Arcengames 4x genre revolution ;)
Speaking of games that I'd like to make but don't think would be wise financially at this time :)
Doesn't AI war count as that? Not that it's a pure 4x, but...

AI war is as much a 4x as FTL is a rogue like..... but while saying that, I think games would be well advised to stop "sticking" to genre conventions... a good game is often not easily definable as "RTS" or "4X" or "FPS"

Actually, most good games I played the last 10 years are hybrids of genres so yeah.. I guess I was sloppy with that statement. Let's put it this way,

AI War is the only game from Arcengames I *really* liked so far. (That Child's play, and the  last expansion being the least most liked ones ,p) I think they broke the coherence of the tone of the game.

Tidalis was fun, but.. well..you know ;) It's very twitchy, especially later puzzles.
avww1/2 were platformers.. I don't like platformers much I noticed..
Soo...Saa...ehm..Shattered Haven I only saw let's plays, but I doesn't seem like a game I would enjoy... it's too much puzzle and too little RPG for my taste, though story seemed interesting. ;P

I hope one of the 2 new announced projects escape from this weird valley of unique games and dooes something that caters to the hardcore sci-fi crowd again. Or at least caters to some of the qualities I enjoy in games. Complex storytelling (Torment/BG2 style) or strategic challenges (AI war style).

Anyhow ,p
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2013, 03:10:22 pm »

I hope one of the 2 new announced projects escape from this weird valley of unique games and dooes something that caters to the hardcore sci-fi crowd again. Or at least caters to some of the qualities I enjoy in games. Complex storytelling (Torment/BG2 style) or strategic challenges (AI war style).

Anyhow ,p

Skyward Collapse should appeal to those that like strategic challenges, though it's not a straight strategy game by any means. It is however a unique game. :)

I can't speak to Exodus, as I'm not really part of the dev team on that one.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 10:56:01 pm »
How would one go about that?

I still intend to reply to this, I just haven't had the time to go in depth. Basically, I want to provide you with a list of where to find your audience and how to find out what they're interested in (real, quantifiable metrics). These do exist, and I want to provide links, but it's going to take me more than a few minutes.

After doing this, you need to have someone from your staff engage these venues. You need to get proficient at communicating with your European and Russian audiences in a different way than you might your American audience. And this needs to happen before your game goes to market by inviting them with your existing catalog, teasers, and community invitation.

The last thing I should add is, the number one thing any gamer wants is to feel like their own gamer experience was affected by their own choices and skill level. The best gaming experiences- and all gaming experiences mentioned on this community site- have been about games where there is some great struggle and when you come out on top, it's like being reborn as a gamer. You have achieved something. That's your audience. Your audience isn't Big Fish Games or something like that.

All the forgettable games are the ones where there are no memories attached. They are one and done, forgotten gimmick mechanics and shovelware.

So let me get those metrics or at least some of them so you can see quantifiable resources, and then have your business staff take a look at them. I don't think developers need to be marketers, especially if you pay people for that. Not that you should put your head in the sand and ignore the gaming world around you. The best game developers should also like playing games, not just making them, or you risk becoming out of touch.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 12:16:32 am »
So let me get those metrics or at least some of them so you can see quantifiable resources, and then have your business staff take a look at them.
Ok, when I see them I'll pass it along to Erik (our PR/marketing/etc guy) and see what he says.
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