Sunrider: First Arrival Free on Steam!

[Teal_Blue]

I just ran across this over on Steam and it is a cross between a Visual Novel and a tactical battle game. Very cool! and it is free. Thought i would mention it for all the space battle and VN fans! 

I haven't played it yet, but looks cool, though i did read it was rather short. But worth a look i think.

-T

[Coppermantis]

Looks interesting. I am a fan of visual novels and space battles, and you can't really go wrong for free, so I'm downloading it now. See what comes of it.

[Coppermantis]

So, I've been playing this for a while. I'm not too far into it, but my verdict so far is that it's unexpectedly competent for a free game. Not without a few issues, though.

To start it off on a positive note, the gameplay itself isn't (to use a comparison that everyone here will understand) AI War level of tactical depth, it's still enough to keep me interested, and the story itself carries the rest. I'm playing on normal mode and have completed 7 missions so far, and at the very least the battles have been diverse enough to not be repetitive. From what I see, I've still about half the units left to unlock, so that will probably introduce more possible strategies as well.

Normal mode is actually fairly hard, or maybe I'm just bad--I thought I'd set it to hard, but apparently I did not, so I'm probably just lacking skill. Some missions can be harder or easier depending on choices you make. All I can say now is that the one I'm stuck on right now makes me want to murder children which is actually a valid option for a Machiavellian solution.

The soundtrack is really good. That's always a plus.

I have two major complaints: Firstly, the battle interface can be finicky. Because of the perspective, when units are vertically adjacent, it can be difficult to select the intended target and I have to be very careful or I risk taking action on the wrong unit. Also, because the scroll wheel advances text for some reason, my instinct to scroll out to view the whole battlefield at the beginning causes me to miss narration, which sometimes entails important instructions. If there is a way to change that, I've not found it.

Secondly, the in-battle voice acting. By and large, the quality of the voice acting is fine. It's not ear candy like, say, Bastion, but it's decent. My problem is that the game is scripted to have a ship's commander speak in reaction to actions taken by or against her unit. Ordinarily not a problem, but sometimes the randomly-selected speech chooses the same line multiple times in a row, which sounds awkward. Especially when it's one of the longer sentences that is just really weird to hear repeated verbatim. It would be a simple enough fix--just tell whatever logic chooses the line to make a line ineligible if it was played immediately beforehand.

Anyway, I'm having fun. Thanks for pointing it out.

Edit: Sunrider: FA is free, while this is going for a dollar. Let that sink in.

[Histidine]

I don't have much to add to what Coppermantis said, so I'll just tell y'all to try this excellent game.

(Well, I should drop this tip here: if you're having choppy animations, try changing renderer (Shift + G). Closed beta version introduces significant improvements here.)

My problem is that the game is scripted to have a ship's commander speak in reaction to actions taken by or against her unit. Ordinarily not a problem, but sometimes the randomly-selected speech chooses the same line multiple times in a row, which sounds awkward. Especially when it's one of the longer sentences that is just really weird to hear repeated verbatim.

At least there are enough different lines that repetition is rare, unlike the static "took damage" quotes. All I can think of when a unit takes multiple small hits is "BREACH IN STARBOARD FUSION CHAMBER" (or similar stuff from Company of Heroes, or Dawn of War II: Retribution... hmmm, is this supposed to be a Relic thing?)

[Coppermantis]

At least there are enough different lines that repetition is rare, unlike the static "took damage" quotes. All I can think of when a unit takes multiple small hits is "BREACH IN STARBOARD FUSION CHAMBER" (or similar stuff from Company of Heroes, or Dawn of War II: Retribution... hmmm, is this supposed to be a Relic thing?)

I dunno, it seems kind of random. I got "Good thing the enemy's nearsighted, huh Captain?" three times in a row. Hull Breaches are always on deck zero The lines themselves are good, but, as you said, taking a lot of light damage leads to a lot of repition.

Though, to be honest, I love unit chatter in general, any game. I found a 13 minute video with DoWII's Commissar Lord saying all his various lines set to music and will just listen to it sometimes.

Just going to end with this. PACT responds with hostility to alt+tabbing. 

[Alex Heartnet]

I keep wanting to check enemy attack ranges and manually calculate exact damage numbers before making my move.  The game doesn't give me any way of doing this     Too much time playing Fire Emblem I guess

Edit:  I can make a pretty good guesstimate of how much damage my attacks will do.  However, why is it that my weapons always seem to do more damage then the amount listed and not less?  (Not that I am really complaining)

The game mechanics are smartly laid out.  I'm impressed.  The levels could do with some terrain though to create chokepoints and help reduce long-distance games of laser tag.

Also I'm a munchkin when it comes to unit upgrades, I always know exactly what to get...

[Alex Heartnet]

Found a rookie mission design mistake.  If I've learned anything from hanging out around the Freespace 2 modding community, it's that there should always be alternative sets of dialogue ready for when the player manages something that's not an intended part of the level design.



Yes, I did indeed bust up that entire fleet, but the dialogue assumes that I went after the main objective without killing everything.

[Coppermantis]

That level doesn't end until you destroy the whole fleet, no? All Icari is saying is that she intended to attack the PACT fleet. She's not commenting on your actions at all, except that you destroyed her booster.Unless it's possible to win without attacking her craft? I haven't ever done that.



Also, if you managed to win the mission that that dialogue precedes, then please teach me your ways. I've been throwing everything and the i am spam ( ) sink at it and coming up with nothing. I got the Agamemnon two spaces away from the end and lost it there, as far as I got. There are videos of hard mode that make it look easy, but I haven't had the successes they have despite trying to replicate the strategy. Perhaps the RNG winds just do not favor me.

My weapons always do less damage than listed. Armor, shields, and such take their toll as expected.

Spoiler/Update: Nevermind, I beat it after three days of trying. I'm not proud of having to waste almost all my command on that one battle, but I got through. Thank the Emperor. It does seem to react to how I won the mission--I took out Icari's ship with Black Jack and she later mentions that "your pilot [Asaga/Black Jack] did a good job taking it down." I'm assuming that it would change if I took it down with Liberty or Sunrider, but I'm not keen on replaying that monstrosity of a mission just to test a theory.

[Alex Heartnet]

Unless it's possible to win without attacking her craft? I haven't ever done that.

The mission won't end if she is the last enemy standing.  Gotta defeat her

So Icari sees a group of definately-PASC ships attacking a privateer ship, yet she somehow assumes that they are working together?  Seriously, Icari is too competent to fail such a basic spot check the whole scene should be rewritten.

Also, if you managed to win the mission that that dialogue precedes, then please teach me your ways. I've been throwing everything and the i am spam ( )

For me the Agamemmon never takes more then a few scratches.  Instead the Sunrider keeps having reactor containment problems.

gfskldhjkasrnesjkndkfjl seriously the entire game needs a nerf.  1337 players can have their fun on Hard Difficulty, yes.  Lower difficulties should be made more reasonable.

My weapons always do less damage than listed. Armor, shields, and such take their toll as expected.

Are you sure you are matching up weapons appropriately?  Maybe my calculations are off.

Then again I have a "take no risks whatever, the RNG hates you so you should plan accordingly" mindset when playing this type of strategy game.  It's a mindset that works well in Fire Emblem, but here the mindset needed is "Push your ships to their absolute limit and load the kitchen sink into the main cannon".

Though, to be honest, I love unit chatter in general, any game. I found a 13 minute video with DoWII's Commissar Lord saying all his various lines set to music and will just listen to it sometimes.

Have you heard of a game called Hostile Waters, by any chance?  The unit chatter is written in such a way that it creates randomized conversations.  Off the top of my head:

Patton:  "You'll do well in the tank corps!"
Borden:  "Thank you, sir"  or "I hate complements" or "Save the flattery".
Patton:  "Well don't let it go to your head son!"  or "Okay, now let's get back to business!"

[Coppermantis]

The mission won't end if she is the last enemy standing.  Gotta defeat her

So Icari sees a group of definately-PASC ships attacking a privateer ship, yet she somehow assumes that they are working together?  Seriously, Icari is too competent to fail such a basic spot check the whole scene should be rewritten.

Yeah, it does seem a little strange. The way I interpret it is that she warps in, fires a shot at a PACT vessel and misses enough that Sunrider interprets it as a hostile action, they respond in kind, so Icari makes the same assumption.

For me the Agamemmon never takes more then a few scratches.  Instead the Sunrider keeps having reactor containment problems.

gfskldhjkasrnesjkndkfjl seriously the entire game needs a nerf.  1337 players can have their fun on Hard Difficulty, yes.  Lower difficulties should be made more reasonable.

Something I learned on the Steam forums:

Does that basically mean that enemies are more likely to attack something that damaged them in the previous turn than something that did not?

yes, absolutely. attacking a unit and especially blowing it up gives your units a lot of 'hate' which makes the enemy AI prioritize those units more, as they are considered a threat. if you make sure you stay on the offensive you can sneak the [strike]Mochi[/strike] Agamemnon right past the enemies and they'll just ignore it

Basically every strategy for normal+ relies on this to get past the Agamemnon level. Perhaps it should be better communicated, but it also seems sort of obvious in hindsight.

Are you sure you are matching up weapons appropriately?  Maybe my calculations are off.

Then again I have a "take no risks whatever, the RNG hates you so you should plan accordingly" mindset when playing this type of strategy game.  It's a mindset that works well in Fire Emblem, but here the mindset needed is "Push your ships to their absolute limit and load the i am spam sink into the main cannon".

Yeah, aggressive is definitely the way to go here. Defensive tactics work too, based on what I hear from other forums, but the payoff is better for aggression so it's pretty much required on higher difficulties. I'm only on normal, so that seems to strike a good balance.

My weapons do sometimes do more damage than I would expect. Perhaps it's an unmarked critical hit of sorts? Then again, they also occasionally do absolutely pathetic damage, so I'm not sure what's up. For example, I once attacked an enemy PACT Mook with Blackjack's Assault gun, and it had 0 armor but the gun did something like 11 damage. Perhaps there's a damage falloff at range, too. That seems to be fairly consistent when I use the rapidfire weapons at long range, so I'd be willing to bet that that's the case.

Have you heard of a game called Hostile Waters, by any chance?  The unit chatter is written in such a way that it creates randomized conversations.  Off the top of my head:

Patton:  "You'll do well in the tank corps!"
Borden:  "Thank you, sir"  or "I hate complements" or "Save the flattery".
Patton:  "Well don't let it go to your head son!"  or "Okay, now let's get back to business!"

I have not, though that reminds me of the guards in Dishonored.
"Do you think you'll get promoted after what happened last night?" | "Shall we gather for whiskey and cigars tonight?"
"Indeed, I believe so." | "Yes, of course."

[Alex Heartnet]

Yeah, it does seem a little strange. The way I interpret it is that she warps in, fires a shot at a PACT vessel and misses enough that Sunrider interprets it as a hostile action, they respond in kind, so Icari makes the same assumption.

Even then Icari would notice the laser show going on and would surely ask about it after the battle.  Unless of course if the player somehow destroys all of the PASC ships before Icari arrives, in which case my point about having an alternative set of dialogue still stands.

Something I learned on the Steam forums:

Does that basically mean that enemies are more likely to attack something that damaged them in the previous turn than something that did not?

yes, absolutely. attacking a unit and especially blowing it up gives your units a lot of 'hate' which makes the enemy AI prioritize those units more, as they are considered a threat. if you make sure you stay on the offensive you can sneak the [strike]Mochi[/strike] Agamemnon right past the enemies and they'll just ignore it

Basically every strategy for normal+ relies on this to get past the Agamemnon level. Perhaps it should be better communicated, but it also seems sort of obvious in hindsight.

And the Sunrider unfortunately is in fact not laserproof.  I give up, this mission is beyond me.  Can I instead just borrow Asaga's Ryder and fly it into battle myself?  The Agamemon would stand a much better chance of survival that way 

I have not, though that reminds me of the guards in Dishonored.

Hey, those guards should be grateful that they are always assigned a task that fit what they trained for!  As opposed to, say, telling the ace pilot to drive a tank.

"I'm an aviator.  AVIATOR!" | "I fly!  I don't drive!"

[Histidine]

I noticed the whole "you see me directly engaging a PACT task force and you still think I'm with them?!" thing, but I never brought it up on the game's forum. Dunno why

SPOILER (highlight)

My personal guess is Icari, acting as Grey's agent, just made up the whole thing about assuming you're working with PACT at the time. She opened fire on the Sunrider to provoke Shields into capturing her, then "spilled the beans" according to script during her interrogation. Afterwards, she could escape her cell to "negotiate" Grey's proposal with Shields. This approach saves her the problem of trying to get him to agree to meet with her, and then to believe what she says.

END SPOILER

[orzelek]

The escort mission is insane. I've read on forums why they did it this way (aka to prevent people from killing all the PACT there to win) but what they ended up with is a monstrosity.
I found one way to win it using one of youtube videos and as far I can see it's the only way that can work atm. You end it one turn after 6 larger ships arrive and you need to have some luck so that 3 of them don't kill the transport. You help the luck by disabling one of them

[Coppermantis]

I modeled my plan after this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkmgp_b8y7s&index=5&list=PLjJPGRHVqhE8oims3CLKA36VQ9Hqmv-JZ

It's on hard mode, and you're right, on higher difficulties it seems like the only plan that can actually work. That seems the case with a lot of games, that on high difficulties you have to play the "optimal" way to win. On normal down, you have some freedom--I ended it two turns after the six cruisers arrive. If the Agamenmnon is in the middle +/- one row, they'll basically miss every shot, and it seems like if it's one row down or up the farther group of three will waste one turn moving in closer. Everything else, if you draw their aggro with your combat units, then the transport can finish the run unmolested.

It is possible to win just by killing ships. If you can destroy all enemies on-screen before the next reinforcements come, then the mission automatically ends in victory. Not really an option on hard, but I've heard reports of getting it done with a well-aligned Vanguard blast on normal.

[Alex Heartnet]

If the Agamenmnon is in the middle +/- one row, they'll basically miss every shot, and it seems like if it's one row down or up the farther group of three will waste one turn moving in closer. Everything else, if you draw their aggro with your combat units, then the transport can finish the run unmolested.

Almost worked like a charm!  Almost...

I give up on that mission.  Fine, fine, Icari I'll accept your offer.

I must say I love the morality system in this game.