Author Topic: steam sale: Summer camp special  (Read 15621 times)

Offline Fiskbit

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2011, 03:23:13 am »
I like shootemups a lot, but Beat Hazard turned out to not be the game for me. It has a pretty solid sense of style and presentation, but beyond that, I think it gets a lot wrong and has little to encourage me to continue playing it.

If you'll be playing with keyboard and mouse, I immediately recommend against Beat Hazard. While I'm told that the gamepad controls are like what you'd expect if you've played Robotron 2084, Smash TV, or Geometry Wars, the keyboard and mouse controls are an awkward design where WASD controls your ship and your mouse controls a cursor which your ship aims at. All shots you fire will hit wherever the cursor was when they were fired, so if the cursor is below your ship and you move your ship right, you'll go from shooting straight down to shooting down-left. This setup means that you're controlling the direction in which you're firing with BOTH keyboard and mouse, while with a gamepad, you'd only be doing this with one analog stick (the right one, used for aiming), as it should be. This one simple issue does a lot to drag down the experience, as it muddles the controls and makes it too difficult to hit any ship you haven't explicitly put your cursor on as you're trying to dodge everything that's flying at you.

The presentation is slick and the colors sure do look good on my Trinitron tube, but the game does way too much flickering that makes me feel a little uncomfortable as I play it, despite lacking any sort of epilepsy problems. Furthermore, the enemies' shots can be rather hard to see against the exploding colors that make up the background. Also, for a game supposedly based on your music, I can't really tell what it's using my music for. Yes, my music plays during the stages, but it never feels like the game is really driven by what's playing, unlike games like Audiosurf, where there is a clear correlation.

Finally, as a shootemup, I feel this game really falls short. It doesn't feel at all like most games of the genre, with enemies that take way too many shots and don't shoot back nearly enough. It also has not nearly enough enemy variety; expect to mostly see the same ship over and over for each of the 3 classes of small, medium, and large ships. I love the variety of enemies in Geometry Wars and similar games, but this definitely does not have that. Additional variety would contribute not only to making each stage more enjoyable, but improving the game's longevity, as well.

There may be something to the game I'm not seeing; it's a pretty popular game, and if you're playing with a gamepad, you're already set to have a lot more fun with it than I did. That said, I don't have any reason to recommend buying the game.
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2011, 02:51:30 pm »
Supposedly the music effects what sort of ships/asteroids will appear. I will admit that I haven't seen any correlation either, but if you play the same song you'll always get the same enemies in the same pattern.

On the summer achievements, for me the worst random one was the one for Nations Red. You had to just keep playing until the game randomly spawned enough grenade boxes, which could take 5 minutes or an hour. Dumb idea for an achievement.

My bigger complaint about the achievements, though, was that some of them were just poorly thought out. The devs should have stepped back and realized that some people are going to get their game JUST to try and get this achievement. (yes, it's silly, but people do it) So they should have used the achievements as a way to showcase what was fun about their game. Some of the worst were things like Lead and Gold. It asked you to get 7 headshots in a row without dying, which is something that I bet almost never happens in a real game. So, of course, immediately people started making servers specifically to get this achievement and nothing more. That means that they are not experiencing the game at all. They are just using it as a means to an end, and probably 90% of them will never come back to the game, because they have no good mental associations to bring them back.

Also bad, the achievement for Hoard. It was way too hard. It was doable, once people messed around with it for a while and found out exactly what behavior was best to trigger it, but it was a bad achievement in general, given for playing the game in Hoard mode (not a good representation of the rest of the gameplay) and playing it wrong (trying to avoid eating princesses, when that's what you normally do in Hoard mode, not to mention being the only way to regain health). A terrible impression to give to brand new players whose word of mouth will lead to new sales for you...

The SMB one was hard, but that's sort of to be expected from SMB. My only issue was that it was many worlds into the game, and I would have rather seen it given for doing something towards the start of the game. Again, because people will be buying these games new to get the ticket. Make it challenging if you want, but make it accessible. I admit, this is a ticket I unlocked with a save file. I have a game all the way up to about halfway through the Hell level, but I didn't feel like rushing through it trying to A+ everything. I enjoy SMB in short bursts. Long grind fests would just aggravate me.

Probably one of the best achievements by my criteria was for DoD Source. Although it was a bit buggy about unlocking for most people. In general, at least, it was fine. It was simply to win a round on two maps. An achievement given for actually playing the freaking game correctly. Amazing. It leads to potential new customers actually just going in and experiencing the game the way it was meant to be played. No convoluted multi-step process requiring multiple people on a server to cooperate so they can all get their tickets. Just play the game, have a good time, and eventually get the ticket. Well done.

I'm sure there are other bad ones, but I've ranted enough. A lot of the tickets fell into the category of uncreative but inoffensive. They may not get you in and really playing the game, but at least they don't require doing anything outlandish. I'd probably have to put the AI War achievement in this category. Of course, to really get new players playing AI War without requiring them to dedicate hours to completing the tutorial is a real challenge. So it's probably best that the achievement was given for something as simple as getting a bit of an energy surplus and nothing more complicated.

Anyway, my point being that these devs should have thought through what they were being offered here. A chance to get people to play your game long enough to do one thing. What is the one thing you want new people to do in your game? I bet if you asked it that way, you would never have someone say 'Get 7 headshots in a row, derp derp!'

Offline Otagan

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2011, 02:54:06 pm »
Were you playing with Beat Hazard Ultra?  I admittedly enjoyed the base game quite a bit, but the vastly increased variety that Ultra brings to the table is a shot of adrenaline into the arm of the game.  Plenty of enemy types and a fleshed out perk system to provide different experiences really helps to change things up.

You're totally correct on the controls, though.  I'm blessed with a wireless 360 controller and a PC adapter, so that's all that I use when I play the game.  Mouse and keyboard, while reminiscent of a number of arcade shooters on the PC, doesn't quite work in this game.

Lastly, I've been playing too many Audiosurf/Beat Hazard/1...2...3... Kick it! style games lately to comment in any coherent way on the effective use of music.  I started typing up something only to realize I was confusing Beat Hazard's stage generation with 1...2...3..., so I'll just let that one lie.
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Offline arcee

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2011, 04:25:20 pm »
(this is for pre-Ultra, I'm not sure if Ultra + the associated patch for the base game changed anything)
Beat Hazard's generation was mostly based on the volume of the music.  Current volume affected your firepower, and levels over different time scales affected enemy and boss generation.  So a song that's always intense, like Through the Fire and Flames, will have a ton of stuff generated but at least your firepower is always up.  Songs that change back and forth get a lot harder, as sometimes there's lots of stuff to deal with but your firepower has dropped.

Offline Fiskbit

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2011, 02:09:42 am »
I've not tried Beat Hazard Ultra. It sounds like it addresses at least some of my complaints, so that's good. :)
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Offline zespri

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2011, 04:13:10 am »

Offline Nalgas

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2011, 04:26:37 am »
Anyone tried http://www.gaslampgames.com/blog/category/dungeons-of-dredmor/ ? Is it any good?

I was wondering the same thing.  I've heard good things from pre-release previews but haven't checked it out myself.  I went for Cthulhu Saves the World today instead to kill time while waiting for my big crap from the summer sale to finish downloading, because I've been waiting for the PC version of that for months, and it's fun so far in a Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden-style parody of 90s JRPGs kind of way.

Offline zebramatt

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2011, 06:16:48 am »
Anyone tried http://www.gaslampgames.com/blog/category/dungeons-of-dredmor/ ? Is it any good?

I was wondering the same thing.  I've heard good things from pre-release previews but haven't checked it out myself.  I went for Cthulhu Saves the World today instead to kill time while waiting for my big crap from the summer sale to finish downloading, because I've been waiting for the PC version of that for months, and it's fun so far in a Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden-style parody of 90s JRPGs kind of way.

Holy expletive! Has the Super Hyper Enhanced Championship Edition Alpha Diamond DX Plus Alpha FES HD - Premium Enhanced Game of the Year Collector's Edition (Without Avatars!) for Steam been released?? How did I miss that!

Curse my lack of moneys!



Offline Otagan

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2011, 12:31:04 pm »
I don't have much time with it so far, but I enjoyed the hour or so I spent with it last night.  It's something of a lite (meaning 'less meticulously detailed than usual', not lacking in content) roguelike with a fantastic sense of geek humor.  My first character got slaughtered in the first 30 seconds, but my next character has almost fully explored the first floor and has leveled up considerably, along with finding a decent amount of loot.  I'll be logging more time with it tonight, for sure.
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Offline zespri

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2011, 04:43:42 pm »
It's something of a lite (meaning 'less meticulously detailed than usual'
What games are you comparing to?

Offline Cyborg

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2011, 06:43:55 pm »
Anyone tried http://www.gaslampgames.com/blog/category/dungeons-of-dredmor/ ? Is it any good?

I was wondering the same thing.  I've heard good things from pre-release previews but haven't checked it out myself.  I went for Cthulhu Saves the World today instead to kill time while waiting for my big crap from the summer sale to finish downloading, because I've been waiting for the PC version of that for months, and it's fun so far in a Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden-style parody of 90s JRPGs kind of way.

I have tried it. It's really buggy right now, including reports about corrupted save files. You might want to read their forums first.
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Offline zespri

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2011, 07:01:20 pm »
I have tried it. It's really buggy right now, including reports about corrupted save files. You might want to read their forums first.
These ones? http://www.gaslampgames.com/forum/

Offline Cyborg

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2011, 07:20:58 pm »
I have tried it. It's really buggy right now, including reports about corrupted save files. You might want to read their forums first.
These ones? http://www.gaslampgames.com/forum/

Yeah. I'm actually a little disappointed with the release to date given the problems you see on there related to saving. I'm afraid to get far and lose my game.
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: steam sale: Summer camp special
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2011, 02:32:19 am »
I had every intention of playing a good couple of hours on Cthulhu Saves The World last night... but ended up spending the entire time playing Dungeons of Dredmor. I'd forgotten how addictive roguelikes can be!