Author Topic: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making  (Read 10771 times)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2013, 10:55:35 pm »
The fix actually involves that the ship doesn't move at the speed it says, rather it moves at 5% speed (dunno what the exact values are) and the REST of the universe moves the remaining 95% speed relative to the ship (essentially, your ship moves, but the universe moves too and faster than the ship moves, together it looks perfectly in-sync.. but behind the scenes ,p) Well I mentioned the fix was crazy.

That way, the precision issue doesn't happen as much (planets only have 1 huge part essentially, so no issue there when they move faster or have some precision problem)

But yeah, since speed acceleration goes to 100000x that also means 3850m/s * 100000 ...... if you have 200 parts, even a single very last digit mismatch between 5 and 6 can rip your ship apart into 200 single parts (more often than not, it actually explodes rather pretty ;p) since for just 1 single step of the calculations, the forces exceed the specified limits of parts.

But to be fair, PhysX is an incredible Physics engine. You can have rovers, robot arms with magnetic grip, or your entire space ship can have giant wheels for vertical landing and driving around on planets. Try that in orbiter, hah ;)

I mean, try that in any physics engine where you can start from a planet land on a moon 12 hours later, drive around, then get out, and walk around with realistic ragdoll physics while you topple down a hill ;P
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2013, 11:12:27 pm »
The fix actually involves that the ship doesn't move at the speed it says, rather it moves at 5% speed (dunno what the exact values are) and the REST of the universe moves the remaining 95% speed relative to the ship
* keith.lamothe opens his mouth to speak, looks puzzled, tries to think of an appropriate exclamation that isn't blasphemous or vulgar, and passes out.

(I'm sure the rest of your post made perfect sense, I... I just... yea)
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2013, 11:50:02 pm »
I thought that fix was awesome, although it did only combat the Kraken, there is still the super Kraken (which happens because of even more precision issues, this time related to wobble propagation on very large and VERY complex ships (500+ parts) essentially a cascading feedback loop triggered by the force that "springs" in at the back of a ship when you go from high time acceleration to 1x that propagates to the front of the ship and back, it can rip a ship apart. I don't think that one is fixable apart from putting a strut-gun from quantum-strut mod everywhere near a docking port.

Anyhow, a game like KSP shows why realistic space is not something you want in a game like KSP ^^ Enjoy it for what it is. A build your own spaceship and notice you forgot the RCS thruster after a 10 hour mission to the MUN which makes it impossible to stabilize from a spin caused by a SLIGHT misalignment of the center of weight (ok, it's the tiny amount of 2.5 tons on the far side of 1 engine.. whoops) ;P As fuel was used the center of weight shifted to 1 of the 4 engines and now I can't thrust forward straight anymore.

Anyhow.. KSP rocks ;)

But I still hope StarLife has some more news more images and some gameplay soon ;) I wanna play a good 4x ..
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Offline Hoverdog

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2013, 06:54:28 am »
But I still hope StarLife has some more news more images and some gameplay soon ;) I wanna play a good 4x ..
:) I think we'll have something for you this evening.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2013, 10:03:25 am »
I'm not suggesting KSP isn't fun, just that I find gravity that violently and instantaneously snaps entire systems jarring and frustrating.  I don't see why you cannot create a gravity well over n objects in space and have an "unaliased" approximation. This matters in a moon landing or going to Mars.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2013, 05:03:30 pm »
Well PhysX can't do it, it's as simple as that ;) KSP doesn't want to be realistic in that way anyway
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2013, 06:49:42 pm »
Well PhysX can't do it, it's as simple as that ;) KSP doesn't want to be realistic in that way anyway

Neither can universe sandbox, where inserting any celestial body or increasing the speed intensifies entropy, to put it politely.

I know you think any kind of universal modeling is ridiculous, but it really isn't. I don't think it's too much to ask for some voxel-like solutions. I think it's because Newtonian mechanics are simplified, but this only creates this misinformation campaign that floods all science fiction games, where space looks and behaves exactly like Earth, except with a black background with colorful stars. How cool would it be if the color of the star actually meant something, or time spent in different orbits in different systems resulted in a different passage of time on other planets?
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2013, 07:37:56 pm »
I don't know how cool, I only know that realistic space travel with realistic ships is boring ;) I can't stand Orbiter for that reason. More realism would imo add nothing to KSP, certain things that direcly impact the building aspect (mining, base building, re-entry heat, food, water, oxygen) I want, but not advanced physics ,p

But yeah, a universal physics engine would be neat to have. But last I checked there isn't one. And coding one is definitely ridiculous in terms of "effort, knowledge, money and time" required ;)
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2013, 09:04:13 pm »
I see what you mean, although I think it would be great to have multiple planets and multiple systems in a universe that honors general relativity. Worlds would evolve at different rates (and might even disappear!). Gravity would actually mean something. You could fly and feel centripetal forces.

I guess it's just me that would like to experience space as it is instead of like a first-person terrestrial fps with a black background. I'm not saying every game… just one...
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2013, 09:09:22 pm »
I guess it's just me that would like to experience space as it is instead of like a first-person terrestrial fps with a black background. I'm not saying every game… just one...
Oh, I'd like that too, but (insert McCoy joke about being a programmer, not an astrophysicist).

I'd love to play a universe sandbox or space program game where I could count on the "macro" physics, even if I couldn't ragdoll on the moon.  I'm far more interested in blowing up the moon.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2013, 09:10:47 pm »
I'd love to play a universe sandbox or space program game where I could count on the "macro" physics, even if I couldn't ragdoll on the moon.  I'm far more interested in blowing up the moon.

That's no moon.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2013, 09:12:07 pm »
No, no, that really is a moon.  They just rebuilt it into a space station.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2013, 11:17:21 pm »
The fix actually involves that the ship doesn't move at the speed it says, rather it moves at 5% speed (dunno what the exact values are) and the REST of the universe moves the remaining 95% speed relative to the ship (essentially, your ship moves, but the universe moves too and faster than the ship moves, together it looks perfectly in-sync.. but behind the scenes ,p) Well I mentioned the fix was crazy.

Which begs the question, why not scale everything down very heavily and then fudge it? Does it matter if my ship is literally travelling at 4,000 km/h if it looks and acts like I'm travelling that fast? Speed in space is entirely relative, so I don't see why they can't just "shift" everything down, so to speak. I don't particularly care that it's not 100% realistically precise, but I really would like to have Lagrange points, as they are very useful for space travel, saving fuel and all that.

:) I think we'll have something for you this evening.

Your name reminds me of Majora's Mask :P Anyway, how's the demo coming along?

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2013, 01:29:08 am »

Which begs the question, why not scale everything down very heavily and then fudge it? Does it matter if my ship is literally travelling at 4,000 km/h if it looks and acts like I'm travelling that fast? Speed in space is entirely relative, so I don't see why they can't just "shift" everything down, so to speak. I don't particularly care that it's not 100% realistically precise, but I really would like to have Lagrange points, as they are very useful for space travel, saving fuel and all that.


I don't know why they didn't do that....

But you should just work with the challenges as it comes. I got a 60t rover, yes basically a huge spaceship with wheels to the Mun and drove around 100km to the Mun Arch ;p So.. you can get a lot of stuff very far on a planet even without flying there specifically...

Asparagus staging is the ONLY thing that really really saves you infinite huge amounts of fuel (70%!) (Asparagus is a 6xSymmetric launch where you connect (via fuel pipes) outside stages 1-2-3-# | 4-5-6-# (# is the main rocket) then fire all at once, and drop off 1,4 then 2,5 and 3,6 and you have a FULL main stage ready to take you anywhere (optimally, asparagus staging takes you into orbit with a full main rocket). With a setup like that and a 700t rocket, you can get 200 tons into orbit with 4700 delta v to waste (enough for all planetary transfers once you reach minmus and refuel there...)

Essentially, you don't need Lagrange points ,) If you want something more useful, get to Minmus and establish a Kethane mining operation. Because Minmus is the BEST starting position you can wish for ;P
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Offline Hoverdog

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Re: StarLife - an indie sci-fi 4X in making
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2013, 01:22:20 pm »

:) I think we'll have something for you this evening.

Your name reminds me of Majora's Mask :P Anyway, how's the demo coming along?
I have an avid distaste of jRPGs, so I can't relate.

The demo is nearly finished (a few days, maybe a week or so).

They were supposed to be yesterday, just a slight delay.

Tech screen:


updated race selection:


options:


starmap: