Author Topic: Star Ruler  (Read 17606 times)

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 02:09:50 pm »
I guess the question is: is it worth £3.25?


I think it is.

I bought the game last month. The game I think is now playable in its current form I think. The AI is now good enough to beat the vast majority of players without cheating (its very micro heavy)

With mods, the game goes from "OK" to "Good" in my book. If you can get it for a cheap price I say go for it.

But there is a demo that is good, so just try that first.

The game still is being developed and the improvements are pretty meaningful. The game was built from scratch to be very modifiable and it shows in how the game is growing.

The thing that sticks with me during the game is that everything is big, or at least can be. You can make a whole galaxy if you want. What is a shame is that the micro to be great conflicts so very much with a huge game. To be "great" at this game involves so much micro I have for the first time ever going to have to be a "casual"
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 02:27:14 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2011, 02:57:34 pm »
Lots of micro is a turn off for me. I would much rather have the challenge of a game be thinking strategically and making good plans, rather than a test of manual dexterity and clicking speed. I can enjoy watching people play starcraft, for example, but there's no way I would ever want to play it, especially at a high level. That's why I'm much happier with games like AI War with its active pause, or Frozen Synapse, where I can think about my moves for a week if I want to. Is there a way to play the game without requiring me to click around madly all the time? Maybe by putting it on low difficulty or something? I like the idea of a game with a great big 3-D rendered galaxy to play around in, but I don't like the idea of clicking until my fingers fall off...

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2011, 03:08:56 pm »
You can always play on smaller galaxies (50 suns and less) and use the game-speed setting (design ships on 0.03 game speed etc.) ,p

The new AI is sadistically good at spreading out though.

Slowing down the game when needed is what i do and that works well ;)
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2011, 03:10:02 pm »
Lots of micro is a turn off for me. I would much rather have the challenge of a game be thinking strategically and making good plans, rather than a test of manual dexterity and clicking speed. I can enjoy watching people play starcraft, for example, but there's no way I would ever want to play it, especially at a high level. That's why I'm much happier with games like AI War with its active pause, or Frozen Synapse, where I can think about my moves for a week if I want to. Is there a way to play the game without requiring me to click around madly all the time? Maybe by putting it on low difficulty or something? I like the idea of a game with a great big 3-D rendered galaxy to play around in, but I don't like the idea of clicking until my fingers fall off...

The micro is required to be great because it allows you to grow super quickly. It is not required by any means because you can have the planets auto-govern and you can even program the auto-logic yourself if you know some code.  You will however be hopeless behind anything more then a moderate AI and you are useless in multiplayer.

If you don't mind pausing you can do that to help with the micro but I find it thoroughly detestable.


Also, research increases exponentially by 40% EACH tech level,. In practice it means anyone with a tech edge gets an almost untouchable lead and 3 tech levels will make any ship obsolete. Thankfully you can tweak the % gain to your liking.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 06:06:11 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline Echo35

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2011, 09:42:06 am »
Lots of micro is a turn off for me. I would much rather have the challenge of a game be thinking strategically and making good plans, rather than a test of manual dexterity and clicking speed. I can enjoy watching people play starcraft, for example, but there's no way I would ever want to play it, especially at a high level. That's why I'm much happier with games like AI War with its active pause, or Frozen Synapse, where I can think about my moves for a week if I want to. Is there a way to play the game without requiring me to click around madly all the time? Maybe by putting it on low difficulty or something? I like the idea of a game with a great big 3-D rendered galaxy to play around in, but I don't like the idea of clicking until my fingers fall off...

Fact. I hate click fests like that, and would rather think about what I'm doing. Forcing a player to micro manage everything and saying it's for "game speed" is just plain silly, and an example of bad game design more than anything.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2011, 09:56:16 am »
Fact. I hate click fests like that, and would rather think about what I'm doing. Forcing a player to micro manage everything and saying it's for "game speed" is just plain silly, and an example of bad game design more than anything.

Preach it. I don't know what one can prove by being a micro-machine (hah) except that you are good at clicking fast. If that's what the contest is about, cut out the middle man and just build a mouse click tracker and see who can click more times in 5 minutes. I'll be over here playing high strategy games where I can think about my moves and execute them on my own time. I've played a lot of chess in my time, does it show?

Offline Cyborg

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2011, 11:04:21 am »
Fact. I hate click fests like that, and would rather think about what I'm doing. Forcing a player to micro manage everything and saying it's for "game speed" is just plain silly, and an example of bad game design more than anything.

Preach it. I don't know what one can prove by being a micro-machine (hah) except that you are good at clicking fast. If that's what the contest is about, cut out the middle man and just build a mouse click tracker and see who can click more times in 5 minutes. I'll be over here playing high strategy games where I can think about my moves and execute them on my own time. I've played a lot of chess in my time, does it show?

In a word, concurrency. It's like juggling. I agree that spamming mouse clicks is annoying, and I don't like games which force you to do that, but that's their argument. How many things can you do simultaneously, and mouse clicking is the "proof." If you pause the game and take your time, that cheapens your ability to handle concurrency, although you probably will get a better answer.

You like chess- so do I- compare it to a five-minute blitz game. Typically such games are about memorization in the beginning and (hopefully) your brains ability to solve concurrent, compartmentalized problems on the board that develop within five minutes. In practice, I find that most such games are a failure in memorizing the openings that you need to know as a club level or higher player, and the rest is pushing pieces.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2011, 01:55:08 pm »
You like chess- so do I- compare it to a five-minute blitz game. Typically such games are about memorization in the beginning and (hopefully) your brains ability to solve concurrent, compartmentalized problems on the board that develop within five minutes. In practice, I find that most such games are a failure in memorizing the openings that you need to know as a club level or higher player, and the rest is pushing pieces.

You can still make a fast paced game that takes a lot of strategic thinking, without dissolving it down to who has the better APM.

Offline BobTheJanitor

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2011, 04:47:28 pm »
I think clickfests bother me because I get really annoyed when I don't feel like I'm being as efficient as I should be in a game. Maybe it's just an odd mental twitch, but I just stop having fun when I feel like I could be doing better if I was just able to issue orders more quickly (or use an active pause system). The game gets lost and I just start clicking faster and faster and every time I lose a unit I feel vaguely like I've failed somehow. Am I just weird? Perhaps. This is part of why I haven't played Dawn of War II in a while, even though I love the setting. And that's only managing a tiny handful of units. But it's so click happy and there are too many things to juggle... when you're aggravated, you're not having fun, and when you're not having fun then why play a game? It's not that I can't do OK in these types of games, it's just that I get caught up in thinking how I could have done better, and then it all falls apart.

Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2011, 06:49:40 pm »
I got this months ago, but was so buggy it crashed all the time in multi. I have seen it getting several larges update since then, so might give it a new spin. Though the click fest sounds dull tbh... Thats why i never got into competetive starcraft :)
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Offline zespri

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2011, 07:36:56 pm »
I've never got into competitive anything! That does not prevent me from enjoying a lot of games.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2011, 10:17:18 am »
Lots of micro is a turn off for me. I would much rather have the challenge of a game be thinking strategically and making good plans, rather than a test of manual dexterity and clicking speed. I can enjoy watching people play starcraft, for example, but there's no way I would ever want to play it, especially at a high level. That's why I'm much happier with games like AI War with its active pause, or Frozen Synapse, where I can think about my moves for a week if I want to. Is there a way to play the game without requiring me to click around madly all the time? Maybe by putting it on low difficulty or something? I like the idea of a game with a great big 3-D rendered galaxy to play around in, but I don't like the idea of clicking until my fingers fall off...
Very good quote, I probably couldn't have said it any better even if I tried.

Let me jump onto the anti-spam clicking bandwagon, but also give my opinion of heavy micromanagement as a game mechanic, and how it introduces something that many of you may be missing.

First I want to say that the original Starcraft game was probably never meant to be as micro-intensive as it turned out to be.  The Blizzard developers probably could never have realized how popular it would have become on a competitive level, and the game interface and control systems were simply made to be "adequate", instead of the most efficient possible.  On a side note, if Korea had never advanced the competitive scene for that game the way it did, we may not know Starcraft as we do today.

One thing to consider is how enjoyable Starcraft (and SC2) is to watch, in contrast to how boring games like Chess and Go are to watch.  Starcraft games have had some of the most epic moments in gaming history, and I fully expect SC2 to live up that same standard.  The fact is, even though mass-clicking may not make the game as strategically skill-based as many other RTS games, it definitely makes it a lot more fun to watch.  I myself barely played Starcraft 1 at all, but got involved in watching the SC2 competitive scene when Gom TV launched their first GSL (Global Starcraft League) Tournament in Korea, and I've been hooked ever since.  I even had the misfortune of paying $60 to buy a game that I practically knew I wouldn't like (which is why I hesitated for about 6 months before watching it religiously made me want to drink the cool-aid).  I don't completely regret it simply because of Blizzard's awesome custom-game support, the amazing single-player story, and the upcoming Blizzard DotA that has a lot of people excited; but it was definitely a bad economic decision on my part.

The point is, games like Supreme Commander and Civilization will probably never have a huge competitive following.  Not because they aren't strategically skill-based, because they are so strategically skill-based.  SC2 has to walk a fine line between spam click orgy and Strategy game in order to be so fun to watch, and as an avid viewer, I'd say they've done a tremendous job.

On a final, more on-topic note:  Starcraft 2 has a lot of redeeming factors for being so APM intensive (which as a player, even I can't stand).  Great matchmaking support and ranking system, simplified interface, easy to understand concepts, and the series probably has the best faction balance of any RTS ever made (I challenge you to find better balanced games), in addition to the merit of being enjoyable to watch which I explained above.  That is the only reason I am okay with it.

If you were to take a badly balanced, badly polished, not enjoyable to watch, no matchmaking system, hard to understand Space Strategy game and make it micro-intensive, I would probably laugh at your company.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 10:19:25 am by Wingflier »
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2011, 10:25:15 am »
I've never got into competitive anything! That does not prevent me from enjoying a lot of games.

I guess that is true for me as well when it comes to games. I played a lot of StarCraft, but never in any competetive way. I really liked to design my own map and such tho.

I do play as competetive as possible when it comes to Civ4 games against my frinds tho :D
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Offline Echo35

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2011, 10:33:57 am »
On a final, more on-topic note:  Starcraft 2 has a lot of redeeming factors for being so APM intensive (which as a player, even I can't stand).  Great matchmaking support and ranking system, simplified interface, easy to understand concepts, and the series probably has the best faction balance of any RTS ever made (I challenge you to find better balanced games), in addition to the merit of being enjoyable to watch which I explained above.  That is the only reason I am okay with it.

Oh it's certainly interesting to watch, but so are shooters and DotA games and they (usually) don't require as much clicking ;D

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Star Ruler
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2011, 10:42:12 am »
On a final, more on-topic note:  Starcraft 2 has a lot of redeeming factors for being so APM intensive (which as a player, even I can't stand).  Great matchmaking support and ranking system, simplified interface, easy to understand concepts, and the series probably has the best faction balance of any RTS ever made (I challenge you to find better balanced games), in addition to the merit of being enjoyable to watch which I explained above.  That is the only reason I am okay with it.

Oh it's certainly interesting to watch, but so are shooters and DotA games and they (usually) don't require as much clicking ;D
Don't get too focused on the clicking, it's the twitch style and reflex-timing that make them enjoyable to watch.

Starcraft 2 requires good reflexes and reaction times just like DotA and FPS shooters, that's what makes them fun to watch; it's simply accomplished using the micromanagement.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 10:43:45 am by Wingflier »
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