Author Topic: Star Ruler 2  (Read 16967 times)

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 04:11:35 am »
:D Well, taste and so on =).

About "innovative", from what I could find out... I do have Star ruler 2, and yes, it has flaws because it's made by a rather small studios and it has a small budget and no publicity. From what I could gather, GalCiv3 is basically a "good" game, in the sense that's it's mostly the same as Galciv2 with some (future DLC) feature missing. Also, launch quality is paradox-level, so buggy. So whatever you're liking there is probably already there in Galciv2.

About innovations in SR2, the whole "import" mechanics, the "diplomacy" mechanics, ship design and ship scaling are things I haven't seen in other space 4X. The different FTL mechanics are pretty nice too.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 04:14:37 am by kasnavada »

Offline zespri

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 04:59:24 am »
So whatever you're liking there is probably already there in Galciv2.
Well, that's fair. Galciv3 as it is now, is more of a "face-lift" than anything else. But it is still nice. I agree on close to zero innovation view point towards it, which makes me really interested what star ruler 2 managed to innovate.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 12:01:53 pm »
Quote
About innovations in SR2, the whole "import" mechanics, the "diplomacy" mechanics, ship design and ship scaling are things I haven't seen in other space 4X. The different FTL mechanics are pretty nice too.

Well this. Let me explain a bit more then.

Import works like this: a planet has one "produce" which it can export, and a "level" required to export said produce. Raising the level of a planet requires importing some produce. Then, a produce generally generates "pressure". Pressure will automatically build "civil" buildings on planets (you don't have a say what pressure does, only where it goes with imports).

Food for example is lvl 0. Water lvl 0. Electronics require lvl 1, and generates 3 money pressure.
If you import food and water to the electronics planet, it becomes lvl 1, it's population raise, it begins giving tax income (lvl 0 planets cost money), and starts generating money pressure.

Money pressure is some kind of "cap" which determines building built on said planet, so basically 3 money pressure can build 3 markets (require each 1 pressure) or 1 market and 1 bazaar (which requires 2).

If you then export the electronics to another planet (to make a lvl 2, you need 2 food, 1 water and 1 lvl 1 produce), the pressure moves to the planet where it's exported too.
 
Requirement then increase up to level 5 planets, requiring each 4 lvl 2 planets and 6 lvl 1 planets if I remember well, and 5 food and 1 water. Of course, both lvl 1 and lvl 2 planets also require their import.

As a side note, it's also possible to create "imperial" buildings as you see fit. Civil != not you, empire = you. Those include additional food / water in case you need them.

There are of course some "special" lvl 0 produce which give special effects, and other produces which don't export, but produce "bonus" effects like free FTL, artifacts or bonus influence cards.

It "sounds" complex when writing it but really is easy to understand in-game. It creates linked sprawling empires. Fun part include removing key resources from enemy systems which will crash its economy =).


Diplomacy is card based, not much diplomacy in the "real" sense. It's more a "point" bonus where you vote and create action based on how much influence you get. I'd suggest a let's play to see what it does. You buy cards, which give you special actions (some of which can be opposed) like naming a system (give bonus to attack in it), a flagship, or stealing "peacefully" a system from your opponent.


Ship design is pretty straightforward, basically you "paint" systems and create stations, flagship and support ships, and give them default behaviour. A flagship, planets and stations can be defended by support ships, and you control the flagships. Then, instead of the "frigate" "cruiser" and so on prevalent in other space games, you just scale them, from 1 to whatever you'd like (there are some limitations), and then, if you can build it, it's yours. Depending on the chosen race, you might have different systems to play with there. Since there are only "few" weapons (about a dozen) it's relatively easy to prepare ships before a game and import them when needed. Yes, the game is in real time so it's basically necessary in multiplayer. There is a decent "auto-builder" if necessary.


FTL mechanics are as follow:
- grav drive (standard FTL)
- gate (teleportation between gates)
- fling (launch up to a planet to wherever you want)
- slipstream (temporary 2 way gate to wherever you want)

Not really innovative, but it's a nice change from lanes, gates and standard ftl drive prevalent on most other games. Launching a planet is really fun =).


Note that it's NOT a complete feature list. There are other stuff like mining and building ring worlds, artifacts, tractor beams and other stuff I've barely grazed. You can destroy planets and stars, colonize moons among other things.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 05:41:26 pm »
Yep, the resource -> link -> planets level up -> need more link -> other planets need to level up is a very smart attempt to abstract micro-management to a "global" scale. You absolutely do not, ever, have to manage more than 3 or 4 main planets, the rest are Lvl 2 colonies that supply resources (Export) and need basic resources (Import from LVL1 worlds), and thus need protection, but no production beyond resources. And there are also MK3 resources, which obviously require tons more in that import chain. To level a planet to 5 you need a level 3 resource and basically a dozen other worlds. And that means you have built an enormous sprawling empire to support that planet which becomes ever more fragile the more you push it.

But the rewards when you get a planet to level 5 and beyond are truly enormous too. It basically becomes the center of your empire, production wise.

This may be hands down the smartest way to solve the "paint the universe is boring" problem by making it a mostly automated element of a larger gameplay element. Namely establishing import and export worlds that sustain another, bigger, more important world, and level it up. And ground combat is also abstracted (thank god).

And yes, you can still blow up stars and black holes. And this has far reaching consequences. Especially because with this import system, there is no such thing as an unimportant planet

However even as much as SR2 deserves praise, it is a matter of fact that the game lacks.. a driving force beyond gameplay. An element of progression. As silly as it sounds, but this game needs a bit RPG (level ups, loots, flag-ships for specific characters) to become a gem. As it is now your ships might as well be blue dots vs red dots. Combat looks very pretty, but it's also on such a scale that you do not give much in the sense of orders. It's giant fleet vs giant fleet usually. And if you have more than 1 fleet, positioning even becomes a factor in combat.
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Offline kasnavada

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2015, 06:10:17 pm »
Quote
To level a planet to 5 you need a level 3 resource
Minor nitpicking, but no... you don't need it, but it's awesome when you import a few. Level 3 planets are bonus "bonus" planets, and never needed to upgrade. But, when they do export, they give crazy bonus to the planet they're exporting, like giving +50% labor, instant building construction or doubling the base pressure cap. In addition to their base pressure which is generally 16, larger than the uniques (at 10) and lvl 2 planets (generally at 7).


Otherwise, I agree with your post. To me it is a good game, with focus to reduce micro while making hundreds of planets matter. And it falls short of being great. I think they have planned an expansion and... frankly, from what SR what was, they've come a long way. I'd be on the look-out for the third one if the expansion does not do the trick.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2015, 06:55:13 pm »
Quote
To level a planet to 5 you need a level 3 resource
Minor nitpicking, but no... you don't need it, but it's awesome when you import a few. Level 3 planets are bonus "bonus" planets, and never needed to upgrade. But, when they do export, they give crazy bonus to the planet they're exporting, like giving +50% labor, instant building construction or doubling the base pressure cap. In addition to their base pressure which is generally 16, larger than the uniques (at 10) and lvl 2 planets (generally at 7).


Otherwise, I agree with your post. To me it is a good game, with focus to reduce micro while making hundreds of planets matter. And it falls short of being great. I think they have planned an expansion and... frankly, from what SR what was, they've come a long way. I'd be on the look-out for the third one if the expansion does not do the trick.
A third one would be nice, but financial issues might close the dev post-expansion. :/

Offline zespri

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2015, 07:00:05 pm »
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A third one would be nice, but financial issues might close the dev post-expansion. :/
Yikes!

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 03:24:00 am »
Yes, I had seen that post, but on the steam forums. That's what I was referring to for the expansion. I hoped that the expansion might have solved that money issue though. Anyway, Stardrive 2 + Galciv 3 going live a few months from SR2 kind of killed it. Not to mention that nearly no one (no major reviewer, at least) reviewed SR2.

See for yourself about reviews:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/star-ruler-2

There are a "few" more out on the web... but yeah.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2015, 04:36:04 am »
I won't touch Stardrive 2 out of principle...
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Offline zespri

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2015, 06:28:44 am »
I won't touch Stardrive 2 out of principle...
But what about Star Ruler 2?

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2015, 06:36:37 am »
I won't touch Stardrive 2 out of principle...

I bought it on this week-end's sale, but did not try it yet. I just love space games in general and tend to buy loads of them, even when I really shouldn't (bought X-abortion...)... The dev of stardraive 2 does seem to be quite a jerk. Yet, while he did not finish stardrive 1, I think he made a good decision in scraping it to make something "new". However, the way he abandonned stardrive 1 was... yeah let's not speak of that.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2015, 08:48:00 am »
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A third one would be nice, but financial issues might close the dev post-expansion. :/
Well, I really can't say it's undeserved, as far as my potential investment is concerned. Anything I liked about SR1 was gone in SR2.
And the line of "It's different from MoO2 and GalCiv, so it's interesting!" doesn't really work on me either. SR1 was different and interesting. SR2 was just...much like I felt about Civ5. I was expecting much, being an old Civ4 fan, and I was disappointed on every count.
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Offline kasnavada

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2015, 10:27:56 am »
I have the complete opposite opinion.

Civ4 bored me in a few seconds, since it brought litterally nothing new, and SR 1 was an over-complicated piece of garbage. Funnily, the people which have actually done SR1 seem to have a similar opinion about it, and don't think much of what they've done :D.

I do have most of my fun discovering how new and old mechanics interact each other, and little to no fun optimizing the same old stuff, or replaying the same old thing with better graphics.


Also, while I understand that gaming requires acting, I have little to no patience for doing mindless choices over and over again. Like managing all of your cities in Civ games, or redoing over and over again ship designs, or catering to each planet / system / city every turn (especially when you start to have 20-30+ which need some actions every 3-4 turns. Or setting every turn or few turns the sliders for whatever sliding tax / research mechanic or something.

The sad part is that a lot of the mechanics in those games are really, really, really mindless. I mean once you've decided that this system will produce tech, the important part is that it's a tech planet. Managing, every few turn, that system and dozens of others to make it a tech planet is mindless, it's the same actions over and over again, done dozens of time. Basically those games make me feel like I'm doing the duties of being the mayor of 40 cities, instead of being the emperor of the universe.


And, minor nitpick... the tech trading strategy, as long as it is doable, or (worse !) is expected in a game, gets the game in the "BORING" category for me. I liked how Horizon tried to solve that. But I prefered SR2 and Civ5 in that regard.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2015, 02:55:58 pm »
Sidenote: In every 4X ever, I disable tech trading

That is not a gameplay element, that is a CHEAT imo ;) At least until we have strong AI
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Offline Histidine

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Re: Star Ruler 2
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2015, 07:30:54 am »
Hey this economy system actually sounds interesting, I might try it out.

On micromanagement: I use the five-year-old rule of thumb - if I could delegate the task to a five-year-old I don't want to have to do it myself.