Author Topic: Shadow Era  (Read 37258 times)

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2012, 04:34:52 pm »
Allyless Nishaven or Darkclaw is pretty iwin against the CPU as is an Spark-rush Elementalis, but for PvP that's an entirely different story. Though I've run into a lot of really wierd games lately. One guy I fought had 109 cards in his deck. O_O
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2012, 04:42:28 pm »
Personally I play a rogue deck with Serena Thoughtripper, based around the synergy between Anklebreaker (disable allies and with her ability, drain the opponents hand of cards), Ill-Gotten Gains (gain a card everytime an enemy ally or item is destroyed), Black Garb (instakill any ally that hits you) and Lily (regain top item in your graveyard). It's working really well both against AI and players so far. Board control is a breeze with Anklebreaker/Black Garb combo. It's insane.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2012, 04:43:17 pm »
109? I have enough of a problem getting the cards I want out of a 51 card deck.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2012, 04:51:27 pm »
109? I have enough of a problem getting the cards I want out of a 51 card deck.
Yeah, as far as I am aware, high level play is 40 and not a single card more than 40. I'm sticking around 40-42 or so. I can't imagine how impossible it would be to play with 109 cards. You'd NEVER get the cards you need at the right time :P
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2012, 04:56:47 pm »
109? I have enough of a problem getting the cards I want out of a 51 card deck.
Yeah, as far as I am aware, high level play is 40 and not a single card more than 40. I'm sticking around 40-42 or so. I can't imagine how impossible it would be to play with 109 cards. You'd NEVER get the cards you need at the right time :P
Sounds like some kind of esoteric martial art designed to make sure that you, the practitioner, have no idea what you're doing.  And therefore, the enemy thinks you have no idea what you're doing and therefore gets confident that they can beat you, leading them to not be as careful.  And then proceed to beat you up, which is why it's an esoteric art.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2012, 05:26:14 pm »
I'm not so sure. He lost horribly :P
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2012, 05:35:44 pm »
I've precisely 40. And at present, until I can afford more cards with in game currency (or bite the bullet on another booster or two - urg, I hate free to play), it's actually a few too many; I bulked it to 40 to play pvp, which I've still not managed to get working... damn iPad.

I'm rambling... but I do quite like this game. Not as much as Magic, but still quite a bit.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2012, 06:13:46 pm »
I seem to have managed to redirect the whole thread in all of two posts. 8)

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2012, 06:19:03 pm »
I seem to have managed to redirect the whole thread in all of two posts. 8)
I'd much rather talk about the game itself than people's misunderstanding of the term "pay to win" ;)
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2012, 10:56:17 pm »
Get your facts straight. Because this is really getting old. Free to play is NOT pay to win. In Shadow Era you can't even get anything exclusively with real life money. In Tribes Ascend, you can at least buy skins and voice packs for money only, Shadow Era has everything free over time.

We are just two different gamers, moonshine. It's not that I'm a troll; no moreso than you are a blind fan boy, anyway.  :D

You are free to disagree with me, but this shouldn't preclude me from saying what I have to say about things like that. In both of those games, you must pay money on top of the existing game to purchase the tools you need to have fun and be competitive. People that pay money can get actual weapons/monsters (read as advantages) to get the upper hand on others. If it didn't accomplish that, it wouldn't sell. These are not party decorations or visual candy, they are in-game items/monsters.

That is pay to win. By definition. Irrefutably. Fact.

You like this kind of game. I don't. That doesn't make me or you a bad person. It just means we are different gamers, and you are free to spend your money to get your advantage over other players. I don't care, because I won't be playing those games, so it doesn't affect me. And it won't affect you. I think your offense comes from realizing just how pathetic it is that you have to pay money to beat the crap out of other people in a game. And it is. My opinion.

One additional point. Imagine if this was league legends, dota, or Team Fortress. What if you could buy a hat that gave you a marginal advantage? What if you could buy a secondary ability that would give you some perk over someone else? I guarantee you that game would lose so many players. And it would be pay to win.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 10:59:29 pm by Cyborg »
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2012, 11:31:41 pm »
Except those games don't so that seems like a moot point to bring up. Let's stay focused on the games we are discussing at hand, not "what-ifs". Otherwise this discussion will get out of hand.

Also, your not paying anything to get into Shadow Era or Tribes Ascend. You also don't need to pay anything to get the tools you need in Tribes Ascend or Shadow Era. I have not paid any money to either game and I am pretty good in Tribes, lousy in Shadow Era. I could be better in both if I actually practiced more, but I don't because I have other focuses right now. All weapons and items have XP costs, the only ones that don't are cosmetic, the "hats" of those games if you will.

It is true, if you plunked down enough money on those games, you'll get some advantages over the new guys. But given time, those new guys will reach your same level. It takes time and dedication to be good at something. That's just life.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2012, 11:48:26 pm »
To be bluntly honest, you can buy all the gold and boosts you want, if you can't hit a moving target consistantly in Tribes (while moving yourself, typically), you still suck as bad as someone else who can't but has paid nothing.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2012, 12:12:31 am »
To be bluntly honest, you can buy all the gold and boosts you want, if you can't hit a moving target consistantly in Tribes (while moving yourself, typically), you still suck as bad as someone else who can't but has paid nothing.

This too.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2012, 08:08:58 am »
To be bluntly honest, you can buy all the gold and boosts you want, if you can't hit a moving target consistantly in Tribes (while moving yourself, typically), you still suck as bad as someone else who can't but has paid nothing.
This. Almost every game today has some form of progression mechanic, heck even AVWW does these days. All F2P gives you is a time shortcut in the form of in game microtransactions. Pay to win is, again, giving someone who is paying an advantage free to players cannot get without paying.

And no, I'm in no way a fanboy of the F2P model. I'm not even sure I like it at all. But that doesn't stop me from going insane when people twist semantics. Especially not since if we take Tribes as an example, there are few weapons that are straight up upgrades. Heck, some can even be argued to be *downgrades* (such as the Soldier Spinfusor over the Assault Rifle). But that's kind of besides the point, seeing as the weapons are available to everyone.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 08:12:49 am by Moonshine Fox »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Shadow Era
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2012, 11:15:51 am »
One additional point. Imagine if this was league legends, dota, or Team Fortress. What if you could buy a hat that gave you a marginal advantage? What if you could buy a secondary ability that would give you some perk over someone else? I guarantee you that game would lose so many players. And it would be pay to win.
There's one key distinction I think is being missed here: there's a difference between:

1) An in-game advantage that is only available through paying real money.

and

2) An in-game advantage that is available through either paying real money or in-game effort.

Granted, I haven't played Shadow Era but from Fox's descriptions it sounds very much like there are zero examples of 1) (though I think someone mentioned a preorder exclusive card but it's not in the online game) and many examples of 2) in Shadow Era.

Which, I admit, could be called pay-to-win depending on your definition.

But that definition would already apply to Team Fortress 2 and League of Legends:

In TF2 you can get alternate weapons like the sniper's bow and the heavy's gun-that-applies-a-slowing-debuff through either in-game effort (iirc through getting enough achievements with those classes, or random drops, or whatever) or by simply forking over some real cash in the Mann Co. store.  All those other weapons are supposed to be (and in my experience are) "sidegrades" rather than obvious advantages, but they do have uses, so a new player does not have access to some pretty important tactical choices (that slowing gun can change things quite a lot), but they can choose to spend real money to get them.

Similarly, in LoL, you can get Runes by paying either IP (from playing games) or RP (from real money, with a few rare exceptions).  This is actually far clearer a case than TF2 because going from an empty rune slot to a full rune slot in LoL is a flat-out advantage, and getting enough IP to fill out a complete level 30 set of runes can take a fairly long time.  And having enough IP to buy alternate runes for alternate builds (not all champions work best off the same runes, to put it mildly) or flexibility takes even longer.  So a new player who's willing to drop some real cash can get some significant advantages over another new player who's invested the same amount of time (or even substantially more time, depending) in the game.

My point being that, unless I'm missing some facts, LoL and (to a lesser extent) TF2 are at least as pay-to-win as Shadow Era.  But you don't seem to have the same kind of problem with LoL/TF2, which confuses me.

Anyway, I think that "pay-to-catch-up" may be a better term for all three games: compared to other players with the same amount of play-time, if no one else is paying real money you're probably on pretty close to an even footing.  But if the other players have been at it longer (and had more in-game currency or whatever) or paid their own real money, then you would be at a disadvantage at least in terms of flexibility.  But if you keep after the in-game-acquisition path you'll eventually catch up too.
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