Response I got from another forum

[Wingflier]

I just thought you guys might find it interesting to hear something a fellow forum poster said about me in another forum (HoN forums):

as i've mentioned a number of times - normally i ignore your baseless, autistic (actually, that's offensive to autistic people - a close friend of mine has a brother who is autistic who isn't such a ****ing pathetic piece of asocial **** as yourself that i feel bad lumping him in with you) ****. have done since whenever it is you appeared on these forums under Hat_Truck but i've genuinely had enough of it by this point. i seriously hope i'm getting trolled mega big-time here because it'd mean that someone as genuinely pathetic as yourself does not exist in reality, but i fear that that's something i'm just desperately wishing for

i've not taken the piss of anyone else on this forums (aside for banter purposes, though i highly doubt you're aware of what that word means - though i'm sure you'll look it up to not look retarded - which is a totally different matter - hint: it's a modern social construct!) except yourself. any clues as to why? or is it just because i'm one of the many lower life forms that you seem to think you've evolved and become superior from?

let me ask - how many people in real life are willing to hold a discussion with you? do you spout the same bullshit with them? i'd be willing to bet copious amounts of pretty much anything that if we were to have the same discussion outside of the comfortable confines of your mom's basement behind a keyboard and mouse that you'd be totally different towards me (if you're willing to prove me wrong i'd be perfectly happy to have a reasonable discussion with you in person). people like you are completely unreasonable and horrendous to deal with as human beings (to be honest i feel ill grouping you in with that) - i know, because when i was roughly 11 years old and completely asocial towards everyone else i had the same pathetic misconception that i was better than everyone else as you currently hold right now. as well as the fact that i have to deal with a couple of people similar to yourself who come into the bar each day

also, religious reasoning is no less baseless than the scientific one - unless you can provide hard, physical evidence that consciousness and the entire universe was randomly created out of nothing for no reason whatsoever you're no closer to the truth than the people that you so readily put down

that said, you've not countered a single one of my arguments and have instead resorted to calling me a hypocrite - despite the fact that i've made the point that i don't normally (aside from extreme circumstances) respond to baseless bullshit that you and people like yourself usually post. but go ahead, continue to think you're a special flower. i'm sure someone will love you other than your own mother (as doubtful as that is), right? right?

This post was not deleted, and not a single person has come to my defense, or even reprimanded this guy for the blatant personal attack.

This is why I love the AI War forums <3

[x4000]

Meh, what a rabid guy on the other end.  I don't care what you said, there's no excuse for that.  People can get so incredibly rude on forums, but that's definitely something I have no patience for.  Sorry that happened to you!

[Wingflier]

I didn't say anything to deserve that!  That's for sure.

Actually the post has been deleted since I made this one (thank god), but still, it serves as a testament to how awful people and forum environments can be.

Thank you for the sympathy, I was shocked as well.

[x4000]

I didn't mean that I thought you deserved it -- I merely meant that I can't think of anything one could say that would be deserving of such a tirade.  Even that tirade by the other fella isn't deserving of a similar tirade back (he just needs a good talking to, and a temp or permanent ban).  Poor word choice on my part.

But yeah, there are definitely some shocking cases out here in the wild west of the internet.

[Cyborg]

also, religious reasoning is no less baseless than the scientific one - unless you can provide hard, physical evidence that consciousness and the entire universe was randomly created out of nothing for no reason whatsoever you're no closer to the truth than the people that you so readily put down

This post was not deleted, and not a single person has come to my defense, or even reprimanded this guy for the blatant personal attack.

This is why I love the AI War forums <3

Well, how about a little context? This is the thread the OP is referring to, and I think if you are going to ask for support you should probably link to what you said.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?s=c36609b2c8faf55385cbddfc4d65ad39&t=296179&page=5

Were you expecting help? If you are going to have religious or other hot button issue kinds of discussions, you have to be willing to accept certain people are going to flip out. Yeah, you should avoid the ad hominem attacks. Obviously, people should avoid referring to mentally challenged people and mental difficulties, but this is the internet, and you have to get over that really quick if you're going to survive the kind of discussion you are participating in on their forum.

At the risk of carrying over the flame war from that forum, I think your biggest mistake was saying this:

Not being afraid to die makes you better than the rest, yes.

With that one sentence, you alienated an entire group of people and said you are better than them. That kind of arrogance doesn't make friends. Actually, it would lead most people to believe that you hold a variety of opinions that you feel makes you better than everyone else. Even if you were right about your opinions, even if your opinions are the One True Way, the fact that you say something like this is what gets you into trouble, and it's kind of mystifying that you would look for support after putting yourself up on a pedestal all alone. Reading along, it looks like a lot of those people are frustrated with you from other posts.

Here's another one of your posts: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=289765

Can somebody please explain this to me? If I even watched this show, I would consider myself a closet homosexual (no offense intended).

This is one from a My Little Pony thread. Honestly, you express a confused exasperation with the fascination with the show, and then declare it to be "homosexual,"  but quickly follow up with 'no offense intended.' Just so you know, you cannot follow up clearly incredulous expressions with "no offense intended" as if it is some magic defense against offending people. Actually, what it looks like is you want to say that you don't want to offend people but acknowledging the fact people will be offended by it.    Isn't that kind of disingenuous? I have homosexual friends, both guys and girls, and I find it offensive even if you follow that up with "no offense intended." Just as you cannot go into a public place and start shouting racist slurs followed by "no offense intended!", you also cannot go into a public forum and say whatever you want without reaction.

I could go on, but there seems to be several of these posts where you come across as you versus them, where you are categorizing other people and making comments about how "deep" you are (a re-occurring theme). That you brought such a persona for examination over here is beyond me, but you definitely won't find support from me for your behavior.

I think one last point to make is this. Part of the social experience that is missing from your posts is you neglect to consider the feelings of the person behind the other computers. I'm actually guilty of this myself sometimes, and I recognize that. I try to make an intentional effort to stake a claim to what I need to be effective in the activities I participate in, while acknowledging that other people need different things so they can enjoy it too. This applies to real life sports games that you play with other people, it applies to having discussions with your elders, it applies to speaking with younger people; you have to be able to adjust your ability to converse with people of all different backgrounds, even ones that are opposite from yours. Recognize the difference without the little comments of how much better you feel you are. For my own amusement, I went through some of your other posts on a variety of topics such as homosexuality, racial slurs, and more... I'm being completely honest when I say, you are inviting a lot of the response you get. If you want to have those opinions, game on, by all means go ahead. If you want friends and support, you might want to consider other people's feelings first, and that's my point.

Oh, and I'm atheist, so none of my post has to do with your religious rant from the other forum.

[Wingflier]

Were you expecting help? If you are going to have religious or other hot button issue kinds of discussions, you have to be willing to accept certain people are going to flip out. Yeah, you should avoid the ad hominem attacks. Obviously, people should avoid referring to mentally challenged people and mental difficulties, but this is the internet, and you have to get over that really quick if you're going to survive the kind of discussion you are participating in on their forum.

This isn't about surviving, I was just simply showing how awful people can be online and demonstrating my appreciation for these forums.  It seems its your opinion that the internet should be about surviving brutal attacks on other people, one that I'm not inclined to share.

With that one sentence, you alienated an entire group of people and said you are better than them. That kind of arrogance doesn't make friends. Actually, it would lead most people to believe that you hold a variety of opinions that you feel makes you better than everyone else. Even if you were right about your opinions, even if your opinions are the One True Way, the fact that you say something like this is what gets you into trouble, and it's kind of mystifying that you would look for support after putting yourself up on a pedestal all alone. Reading along, it looks like a lot of those people are frustrated with you from other posts.

It is my opinion that not being afraid of death makes you a better person.  Am I not entitled to my opinion?  People give opinions all the time that I disagree with, but I do not look down on them for it.  I've never seen fear do anything but cause humanity harm, especially the fear of death.  I do not think my opinion is illogical, and I did not mean to insult anybody with my opinion.  I apologized several times throughout that thread to people if I offended them, and tried to be as civil as possible.

This is one from a My Little Pony thread. Honestly, you express a confused exasperation with the fascination with the show, and then declare it to be "homosexual,"   but quickly follow up with 'no offense intended.' Just so you know, you cannot follow up clearly incredulous expressions with "no offense intended" as if it is some magic defense against offending people.

This was a joke, probably in bad taste.  After that we had a proper discussion and agreed to give the show a chance.  If I really believed what I said in the first part, would I really agree to watch the show?  You accuse me of taking things out of context, but that's just one quote of an entire thread.

The point is that I would never verbally attack somebody or bash them the way that guy bashed and degraded me.  I agree with x4000, it's completely unacceptable, regardless of the situation.  You seem to be of the opinion that in some situations it's merited, or that because we are online, it's acceptable.  In this, I completely disagree with you, because there is no situation in which that kind of behavior is acceptable.  If I ever offend somebody, or say something which somebody else regards as a personal attack, I will be the first to apologize to that person.

I'm not the perfect poster, I never said I was.  I've probably said some things I shouldn't have and made some mistakes in the past; haven't we all?  But if somebody were to come out and verbally attack another person, I would defend them, regardless of the situation, and there have been several times on the HoN forums that I have defended other posters.  

If you have a problem with another person, you should discuss it rationally with them, like we are right now.  I actually have a great respect for you for going to the HoN forums, coming to your own conclusions about what happened, and then discussing it with me.  I'm not angry, I'm not upset, and I'm glad we can be civil about this.  If anything, you've proven my point.  Even though you disagree with me, you don't have to resort to personal attacks to get your point across.

On a final note, I'm not looking for friends or support; that's not what this is about.  Many things I say in the forums are simply to test people's reactions, I may not even be all that concerned with the subject matter.  I wanted to see if people would even defend somebody who they disagree with or despise, and the results I got were not all that surprising.

I didn't mean that I thought you deserved it -- I merely meant that I can't think of anything one could say that would be deserving of such a tirade.  Even that tirade by the other fella isn't deserving of a similar tirade back (he just needs a good talking to, and a temp or permanent ban).  Poor word choice on my part.

But yeah, there are definitely some shocking cases out here in the wild west of the internet

No I understood what you meant, I was just agreeing with you.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Cyborg]

You seem to be of the opinion that in some situations it's merited, or that because we are online, it's acceptable.  In this, I completely disagree with you, because there is no situation in which that kind of behavior is acceptable.  If I ever offend somebody, or say something which somebody else regards as a personal attack, I will be the first to apologize to that person.

You completely disagree with an opinion that you postulate I assume? This might be another way to improve your forum communications. Please use the quotation features.

Obviously, people should avoid referring to mentally challenged people and mental difficulties, but this is the internet, and you have to get over that really quick if you're going to survive the kind of discussion you are participating in on their forum.

This is what I said. One should not resort to personal attacks, especially on groups of people that aren't there to participate or even could participate in that kind of exchange. On top of that, though, you have to have thick skin if you are going to participate in a flame war. Getting the tirade directed at you may be harsh, but you can't be playing hurt feelings over it if you are admitting you want to get a reaction to the topic. I've the feeling you knew quite well that by picking religious mockumentaries and satires you were going to get a reaction.

It's the internet, and it's going to be a long journey if everything anyone ever says to you is taken to heart. You seem to draw lots of angry people in your direction on multiple threads; maybe you should take that as a signal your behavior is unacceptable to great swaths of people.

You want to agree with people and create factions while at the same time taking shots at people's lifestyles. I don't really find that funny, and I don't see it as a joke. Lots of kids these days say the F word (the six letter one). Does it make it okay if they are joking? Even athletes have been caught saying it. I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this and many other things, especially from what I'm reading.

There are also some reoccurring word choices you use on many of your posts. Here are some language choices you might want to consider:

• no offense intended
• I'm sorry if I offended you
• I'm sorry if anyone was offended
• I'm sorry that you are offended
• don't get mad but…

All of these things have one major linguistic point in common. They are wordplay attempts at creating barriers between the speaker and the object. It's apologizing without actually apologizing. It's excusing what you say right before you say it, knowing well it's inexcusable. Please compare it to the following:

• I'm sorry for…
• I'm sorry.
• {nothing at all}
• This affects me when you…

All of these are much better ways of taking responsibility, humility, and communicating in amicable, nonthreatening ways with other people. When you take positions from the first list, immediately it makes people think that you are only sorry to either a) shut them up without actually taking responsibility for error or b) giving yourself a license to attack other people. Sometimes attacking other people is more than just calling them names. Seriously, look at your posts and see where they are going. If it's just for entertainment, if you are just doing this for the fun of it… Well okay. I just don't get your confusion over the results.

[Wingflier]

This is what I said. One should not resort to personal attacks, especially on groups of people that aren't there to participate or even could participate in that kind of exchange. On top of that, though, you have to have thick skin if you are going to participate in a flame war. Getting the tirade directed at you may be harsh, but you can't be playing hurt feelings over it if you are admitting you want to get a reaction to the topic. I've the feeling you knew quite well that by picking religious mockumentaries and satires you were going to get a reaction.

When did I bring up religious mockumentaries and satires in that thread?  You mean on the top 10 list of my favorite movies that the thread was about?

I never meant to start a flame war.  In actuality, the original discussion was over what whether following your primal instincts makes you deep.  When I won that argument, people got angry and started attacking me instead of just admitting I won.

Also hurt feelings?  My feelings were never hurt, I'm just disappointed in the way people react to these situations.  Maybe I unintentionally provoked it a little bit, but it saddens me that people have to act this way.  Even though you clearly disagree with me, you aren't acting like a madman about it.  And okay, I understand that some people on the internet are going to do that, but for nobody to step up and say anything about it?  

Is it our responsibility to defend someone who is being unfairly attacked?  I was simply shocked to see that nobody cared.  The point I was trying to make in my last post is that you seem to be okay with this, as if nobody has the responsibility to stand up for others, whether they agree with them or not.  I could be WRONG in my interpretation of your statement, and if I am, please forgive me (<---This is a prime example of something I shouldn't have to do.)

Thank you for the social lecture as well, but it wasn't really necessary.  It isn't hard to stay in people's social graces, but I shouldn't have to sugarcoat what I say if I mean it.  I'm not a big fan of being politically correct (as you can probably tell), but that doesn't mean I don't care about people (in fact I believe it means I care more about people).

All of these are much better ways of taking responsibility, humility, and communicating in amicable, nonthreatening ways with other people. When you take positions from the first list, immediately it makes people think that you are only sorry to either a) shut them up without actually taking responsibility for error or b) giving yourself a license to attack other people. Sometimes attacking other people is more than just calling them names. Seriously, look at your posts and see where they are going. If it's just for entertainment, if you are just doing this for the fun of it… Well okay. I just don't get your confusion over the results.

In terms of taking the responsibility, I take full responsibility for what happened.  I'm not blaming anybody else or acting like I'm surprised at what happened.  What simply shocks me is that people can have such utter apathy when a fellow human being is being attacked.  I know that in these forums, people would defend someone under attack, even if they disagreed with their argument.  That was the point of this post, I was simply expressing my appreciation for this forum and the group of people who reside here.

I know the people in the HoN forums aren't stupid, they obviously just don't care.  Now you may have a different opinion on this, you may think I didn't have a right to be defended and blah blah blah, but that's not the point.  You asked me why I made this thread and now you know.

[Orelius]

[chemical_art]

What's the goal of this post? To illustrate a wrong? You never said in the original post, leaving me to make my own interpretations.

Most of the post is from someone I have never heard before and cannot defend him or her self, about a subject that you provided no context on. This means you are not presenting the whole story implicitly (intentional or not), forcing others to provide it to adequately understand it.

Now I'm suspicious. I am far too familiar with the crime of omission. This is a one sided story, and those aren't the truth.

It sounds like you want us to defend you. and who wouldn't with only the info you provided? Maybe you don't want us too, but then you should have clarified what you really wanted.

But as i read the context, the nature of these posts I see is someone stirring up hornets nests then complaining they are getting stung. If you don't want to get stung, either stop messing with hornets or get some thicker armor. That isn't going to get much sympathy for me when the harm is only in the form of words. If I saw you being attacked with a 2 x 4 I would rush to help you, but if you get verbally rebuked I'll just stand aside.

[x4000]

This topic is going nowhere fast, let's drop it please.

[Wingflier]

Okay, I apologize for whom I offended and thank you for the discussion. Sincerely, thank you guys.

[Echo35]

Agreed