Prison Architect

[Coppermantis]

I might as well contribute my opinion: There many things that can be objective; these are generally accepted truths. For instance, it is an objective truth that killing another person is a bad thing. I don't think you'll find many sane people who will say otherwise.

In defense of an ideal, such as the bully who doesn't stop trying to take your freedom, I disagree.  My sanity is now up for debate.  Self-defense is another discussion.  Do you kill to stop non-lethal pain?  I will, and consider it righteous, depending on severity.

I don't mean to derail the philosophical discussion, but you must allow for an objective truth to not include a bias towards principals of an individual participant.  'Killing is wrong' allows nothing to eat, for death feeds life, even plant life must die for another's needs, even other plants (fertilizers).  Trees murder the majority of their own children with shade.

An objective truth cannot take a moral bias into account.  It must occur no matter the desires nor stance of the beholder, and must hold true across multiple observers in the same way.  Otherwise it is a biased fact (I think that's the lingo for it), similar to quarks, where the observation changes the truth of the fact.

See, even in self defense, it may be justified (i.e, not "wrong") but it is still resulting in the forceful removal of human life and is therefore undesirable, even if it is morally acceptable. And the "allows nothing to eat" concept isn't really what I was referring to; Death is obviously a critical part in the cycle of life, but I was referring towards the concept of murdering Humans against their will. Disease, hunting and so on are natural and not "bad" (except in extremes, in which case that throws the cycle out of balance with potentially disastrous results.)

[Mánagarmr]

I've seen things happen in that game that I don't even want to repeat, they're just so emotionally wrenching and awful.  Largely because it made sense that they could happen, given the premises.  If it had been obviously absurd it wouldn't have had the same impact.

Now I'm actually curious. Whatever could've happened in DF to give you such a lasting impression?

[keith.lamothe]

I've seen things happen in that game that I don't even want to repeat, they're just so emotionally wrenching and awful.  Largely because it made sense that they could happen, given the premises.  If it had been obviously absurd it wouldn't have had the same impact.

Now I'm actually curious. Whatever could've happened in DF to give you such a lasting impression?

I honestly don't want to talk about it

[mrhanman]

I'll give you an example.  My very first embark in DF was in a cold biome that froze over in the winter.  Not knowing this or how to deal with it, once the water started to freeze and the ale supply was exhausted, my dwarves started to slowly die of dehydration.  The last to go was a little girl.  She died there alone and helpless, surrounded by goblins kept at bay by a single locked door.

DF is brutal.

[Mánagarmr]

DF is brutal.

This much is true. But it's also just pixels

[Wanderer]

DF is brutal.

This much is true. But it's also just pixels

In a way.  One of the most amazing things about DF is that because those pixels are so abstracted, you end up giving the story its own life.  Said story isn't shoved down your throat but it's made in your own head... and is thus so much more easily carried.

Brian's Song is just celluloid and light, but I cried Man Tears.  DF has affected me that way once as well.