Author Topic: Prison Architect  (Read 20736 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2012, 10:30:01 am »
Quote from: madcow
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Ok, bunkers and razor wire, facing inward, along the entire external wall.  Post teams in the bunkers with machine gun nests and grenade launchers.  Helicopters with suppression-gas canisters.
Don't forget one large uber-thunderdome chamber, a goodly number of cameras to capture the inevitable chaos for profit
Oh, no, not trying to make money, that wouldn't be ethical.

Hmm, the metal detectors across the hall just went off.  Must've been the irony.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2012, 11:05:00 am »
Oh, no, not trying to make money, that wouldn't be ethical.

Hmm, the metal detectors across the hall just went off.  Must've been the irony.

Quick, fashion a shank out of your tooth brush for protection just in case!

Also, I figure if you're going to go down, might as well go out with a bang. Plus you need to afford all those helicopter and machine gun nests... unless you have the prisoners make them for you in the workshops, hmm.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2012, 11:16:33 am »
Also, I figure if you're going to go down, might as well go out with a bang. Plus you need to afford all those helicopter and machine gun nests... unless you have the prisoners make them for you in the workshops, hmm.
Workshops?

Employer providing insufficient resources and unreasonable load?

Hmm...

(perspective and end-goal recomputation, gears grinding)

(another 100 prisoners arrive)

Thanks for the troops! ... what?  Oh, I meant prisoners, really!
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Offline madcow

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2012, 11:53:30 am »
Hahaha, I really hope they have the option to let you build something really zany... like superjail.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2012, 12:26:51 pm »
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I don't buy that this game encourages the institution of prison. If anything, it brings the very serious realities of prison, and of crime, into your home in a way which on the surface feels accessible and soft; but underneath is dark and real.
On the contrary, turning the prison system into a form of entertainment is doing everything BUT showing people who gruesome and horrible it really is.

It's the same thing as turning "Teen Moms" and "Toddlers for Tiaras" into forms of entertainment.  Teen pregnancy and the sexualization of young children is not something to be scoffed at, but it actually becomes much more acceptable once it becomes a form of entertainment.  Some of the most horrible things ever have, classically, been accepted as forms of entertainment, maybe one of the best examples being the Roman Colisseums, where slaves fighting brutal fights to the death was seen as the ultimate spectator sport.

Maybe the horrors of prison is something YOU take away from it, but I think you're joking yourself if you think that's what everybody is playing it for:  To discover the horrors of prison.  If they wanted to put the real horrors of prison into the game, they would have to include cuddly hug , gang violence, guard violence, drug trade, and the emotional and physical abuse that goes along with your typical federal penitentary. 

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Especially if you deem to run the most humane operation you can, with the highest chance of rehabilitation.
I could almost agree with this point, except for the fact that prisons aren't about rehabilitation; they have NEVER been about rehabiliation.  It's about punishment, it's about getting perceived "bad guys" off the street and into what is basically an adult "time out". 

Why do you think they're called "Penal Insitutions"?  Penal means punishment.  Punishment and rehabilition are two COMPLETELY different things.

In fact renown Prison Psychologist James Gilligan has found through his own studies that Punishment is one of the number 1 CAUSES of violence, a topic which he wrote his book "Violence" on, and which he tries help make people understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gilligan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMSsi4Krd5Q&feature=relmfu
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Dr. Gilligan was brought in as Director of Mental Health for the Massachusetts prison system because of the high suicide and murder rates within their prisons. When he left ten years later the rates of both had dropped to nearly zero.[2]

Our entire American Culture's obsession with punishment in general is extremely unhealthy and has a much more negative effect than does mercy and forgiveness.  A good example of this is something I heard about recently, while listening to one of my University's History Professors give a lecture about America's Drug Wars.  Since about the early 1900s this country has fought a massive war on drugs, both foreign and domestically, which has cost us trillions of dollars total, and costs us hundreds of billions of dollars annually - and that's taxpayer money by the way.  Yet ironically, the rate of drug use (based on percentage of population) has stayed about the same since 1914 to the present.  We've attacked and forced countries like Colombia and Vietnam to stop producing drugs, and yet for every 1 drug lord we kill, 2 pop up in their place; it doesn't fix the problem at all.

So countries like The Netherlands try something new and completely LEGALIZE drugs, and what happens?  Drug use goes down.  Less people go to jail.  There's less cases of AIDS, drug-related crimes, and shared needle infections.  Hell, the government can even make a small profit off it because they can tax some of the drug trade.

Would something like that ever happen in America?  Hell no, because we are obsessed with PUNISHING the drug users, because they are "such bad people" who "deserve to be in jail".  We have to "get them off our streets".  Our religiously-fueled, high and mighty, morally judgmental attitude is what causes the problem to be so bad in the first place, and I'm convinced that the same analogy can be applied to prisons (drug-related crimes are one of the number one jail-sentencing offenses after all). 

So don't tell me this game accurately represents the horrors of prison, at best it trivializes it, and worst it condones it. 

By your logic, how come we don't make a game called "cuddly hug  Simulator" or "Child Abuse Simulator"?  Making these games wouldn't CONDONE these things!  We're playing the good guys here, the Police Officer stopping the rapes or the CPS Agent stopping the bad family from hurting the children!  It doesn't condone it right?  Right?

No, it does condone it.  It turns it into a form of entertainment.  It glorifies it.  And since cuddly hug  and abuse routinely happen in prisons, I see absolutely no difference.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2012, 12:40:42 pm »
FWIW, a lot of prisons are called "correctional facilities".  Or, further back and with a different theme, "penitentiaries".  Punishment ("Penal") is not the only theme that's been referred to.  Not saying that it's any better (not getting into that issue, personally), but it's not a monochrome picture.

There's a lot of games out there that entertainment-ize some pretty awful behavior, I guess I'm just surprised to see this particular one singled out.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2012, 12:50:50 pm »
Another game this company made is based around nuclear holocaust, and the goal is specifically to nuke civ cities, complete with running totals of those killed.  I don't think controversy frightens them.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2012, 12:57:44 pm »
Another game this company made is based around nuclear holocaust, and the goal is specifically to nuke civ cities, complete with running totals of those killed.  I don't think controversy frightens them.
Maybe their government needs to get them off the street ;)

(I kid! I kid!)
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Offline madcow

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2012, 01:04:52 pm »
Call it prolonged assisted research. :D

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2012, 01:08:53 pm »
Another game this company made is based around nuclear holocaust, and the goal is specifically to nuke civ cities, complete with running totals of those killed.  I don't think controversy frightens them.
Maybe it doesn't frighten them, and it probably shouldn't.  People love this stuff, that's half the problem.
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2012, 01:21:37 pm »
@Wingflier: I think I'm better placed to comment on the tone of the game, having actually played it; and the impact it's having on the alpha community, actually being part of it. I'm telling you, categorically, there's something wrong with you if the tutorial mission doesn't affect you emotionally. It's heavy stuff. The lighthearted tone makes it so accessible that the underlying moral quandaries sneak the hell up on you and grab you by the id.

Also, wow. You must really have a problem with war games, huh?

Thirdly: I'd go out on a limb and suggest that Introversion, being British, have a far less America-centric view of the world. You seem to be suggesting that because prisons specifically in America function a certain way, they therefore must do the world over, as a matter of course. I imagine, in fact, you're absolutely not saying that; but when you ram America-this and America-that down the throat of all your arguments, I can't help but be bludgeoned by it.

Finally, I'm glad you mentioned shows like Toddlers in Tiaras. I abhor that show. But I don't think its influence is corrupting. Frankly, I think if anyone is relying on television (of that calibre) to guide their or their children's moral compass, there's a more fundamental problem there.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2012, 01:31:52 pm »
Quote
Also, wow. You must really have a problem with war games, huh?
Don't know why you're making that assumption.

I can see arguments for why war and violence might be necessary in certain situations.  For example if I see a woman getting cuddly hugged  I could try to casually talk it out with the rapist, at risk of getting shot or stabbed.  Or I could just come up behind him and knock him out with a brick.

I could also call the police and allow the act to continue while I wait for them to show up, but once again, violence here may be a better solution.

Various times throughout history when all discussion was exhausted, violence and war seemed to be the last option (Revolutionary War comes to mind).  I think violence should be a last resort, but I'm not sure it's always a bad thing.  Self-defense can be considered violent, but if you're being attacked, are you doing it for the right reasons?

You shouldn't assume that just because I abhor prisons, you know every detail about my position.

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Thirdly: I'd go out on a limb and suggest that Introversion, being British, have a far less America-centric view of the world. You seem to be suggesting that because prisons specifically in America function a certain way, they therefore must do the world over, as a matter of course. I imagine, in fact, you're absolutely not saying that; but when you ram America-this and America-that down the throat of all your arguments, I can't help but be bludgeoned by it.
As far as I know, prisons in Britian are no more about rehabilitation than they are in America.  I've only lived in America so I can only comment based on my own experience, and for that, I am truly sorry.  I do hope to travel abroad after I finish college and maybe I'll change my opinion on some of these things.

If you could give some example of how prisons in Britian have a different purpose than they do in America, or have a different goal, I'd be happy to retract some of my previous statements.

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Finally, I'm glad you mentioned shows like Toddlers in Tiaras. I abhor that show. But I don't think its influence is corrupting
If it's influence isn't corrupting, then why do people watch it? 

There can be no supply without demand.  People obviously crave this show or it wouldn't be on the air.  Sociology 101, but the media is one of the main ways we learn our roles in society.  When Reality TV and Toddlers in Tiaras becomes the media norms, it becomes part of the social norms.  Do you deny that women in our society aren't already sexualized enough as it is?  Do you think that didn't start with TV and advertising?  If not, where DID it start?
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2012, 03:24:54 pm »
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Do you deny that women in our society aren't already sexualized enough as it is?  Do you think that didn't start with TV and advertising?  If not, where DID it start?

The sexualization of women didn't start with TV and advertising.  The Trojan War was fought over a single woman.  The sexualization of women started long before the beginning of civilization.  It's something ingrained into our DNA.  At least now we don't club them over the head and drag them back to our caves.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2012, 04:48:55 pm »
The Trojan War is a fictional event.  Women haven't always been sexualized by the public either.  You're confusing sexual urges and sexual behavior with  sexual socialization, which are two completely different topics.

During the Victorian Era for example, women really weren't that sexualized at all, and were taught to be sexually restrained.  I would say that for most of American History, women also weren't seen as sexual objects either.  I think it began to really happen in the 1970s, when it became increasingly popular to use "sex appeal" as a form of advertisement.

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Over the past two decades, the use of increasingly explicit sexual imagery in consumer-oriented print advertising has become almost commonplace. Sexuality is considered one of the most powerful tools of marketing and particularly advertising
From Wikipedia.

So in other words, you would have to explain where the SOCIAL sexualization of women comes from, if not the media.  I'm not talking about a man's desire to have sex with a woman, that's natural.  I'm talking about the social view of women as sexual objects, where did this come from?  Answer - the media.

Anybody who says that the media doesn't affect our outlook and perceptions on life knows nothing about Sociology.
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: Prison Architect
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2012, 05:30:00 pm »
I realize that the Trojan War is a fictional event, but the simple fact that it was conceived and has survived the centuries speaks volumes to its appeal.

Maybe I misunderstand your meaning of the sexualization of women.  To me, there is not much difference between the objectification of women and natural sexual behavior - the latter causing the former.  Women have always striven to be as sexually desirable as they can manage.  You bring up the Victorian era women as taught to be sexually restrained, but if you don't think they tried their hardest to be as sexually desirable as possible within the confines of the social structure of the day, then you only have to look at much of the art and advertisements of the period.  Sex sells, and it has always sold.  The reason it is so effective is because we all desire it, in one way or another.  This might lead to the objectification of women, but it has always been so.  And let's not leave men out.  We have also been sexually objectified over the years.

Much of society's ills can be laid at the feet of the media, but I don't think the media caused the objectification of women.