Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE

[Mánagarmr]

And if the stats are off, that would give the AI issues, if it's not hardwired to build specific units, regardless of stats.

[eRe4s3r]

The fact that the AI works fine most of the time would point to other issues though I just had an interesting game against brutal AI's where all 3 AI's worked exceptionally well with mod, so this is a uber issue that only happens SOME times.

Firstly, about 13 minutes in the first nuke fell, killing my retarded AI ally instantly. Despite the fact that there wasn't any sat in orbit the missile aimed perfectly at the cmd (and then at mine, but I survived because I was running to my missile protection) how the AI knew where to aim I do not know. I checked in replay and it had no information on that spot.

Secondly, I tested throwing a planet at another planet, and whover coded that system was a RETARD. So how does it work? Well easy, you build as many thrusters as are displayed in the overview the planet needs. Once done, you press "annihilate with" after which it makes you select the planet you want to hit. All fine so far, the problem is this. It does not tell you what absurd orbital path the game will use, and this means you have absolutely NO INDICATION where it will travel.

Bottom line, the planet hit my own planet despite that being impossible to tell from the aiming screen (the games orbits make zero sense when you have played KSP too much ;p) this was game-ending, because it hit my cmd... so yeah. With no way to tell that it was going to do that, and no way to SEE where it was going before giving the order this is the absolute dumbest system I ever so far found in the game.

Well, at least until that happened the game was pretty fun. For once I had no issues and the balance mod works fabulously That the game does not tell you that you are about to throw a planet at yourself (because the orbit magically intersects) and not at the target is pretty low.

But at least it showed some of the potential this game has in skirmish.

Ps.: After more tests I found the reason for the AI problem... apparently if you set the AI on NORMAL the AI can get dead-locked because it builds no factories or the delay to build one is so large that by the time the AI wants to build something it checks whether it needs more mines and builds that instead and then gets locked up again. I could now play 2 games with working AI setting AI on "Hard" very weird issue.

Against hard AI it's also much harder to actually amass 1000 units ;p But I still dislike the orbital control scheme. It's super confusing to rotate around the poles of a planet. And there is no proper mini-map. I find the PiP is only useful to quickly get from A to B to A. And there are "camera" bookmarks that help as well, but when it comes down to it I wish we could have flat maps again ,)

[doctorfrog]

I generally buy games based on two things: forum recommendations and (for better or worse), based on what RPS says about it. The review is in: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/17/planetary-annihilation-review/

I generally like these reviews because they're slightly more verbose than what I have patience to read, and because they generally represent a slightly foppish version of my own Video Games Personality. The significance of the first is that if I read the entire review, then it means I'm pretty darn interested in the game.

Based on this review, I'll probably buy the game when it gets really, really cheap, and if the DRM measures work for me. I'm not very interested in multiplayer versus on it, unless the comp stomp is compelling. It looks like the fairly hollow, cold personality of Total Annihilation continues here (it's like playing with Tonka trucks, that when you look inside the cabs, they are empty), which is unfortunate, but AI War isn't exactly bursting with personality and it's a game I really love--but has the added advantage of being designed from the ground up to take on human opponents rather than pitting them against each other.

I'm looking forward to whatever mods the community produces. This looks like an Important Game.

Quote that best states how I'll probably feel about the game:

Planetary Annihilation is a slick, modernised RTS, engineered from the ground up to appeal to the fast-paced, competitive, hotkey-loving esports crowd. For people like me, it is a bruising gauntlet of defeat. But even I can see the appeal.

[Mánagarmr]

Can, btw, confirm that it IS the balance mod that breaks the AI. I've never had the AI stall even once. Today I installed the balance mod to test it, and 5 out of 6 AIs stalled completely. They built a few extractors and few power plants then just stood there. One of them continued, partly I think because I was so close to it that it was forced into a fight, circumventing the freeze.

[keith.lamothe]

if( !can_cheese_incredibly_short_ranged_defenses ) { TakeBallAndGoHome(); }

[Wingflier]

Planetary Annihilation is a slick, modernised RTS, engineered from the ground up to appeal to the fast-paced, competitive, hotkey-loving esports crowd. For people like me, it is a bruising gauntlet of defeat. But even I can see the appeal.

I'm not sure what to tell that reviewer. If 20 commands per minute, or 1 command every 3 seconds, seems too strenuous, he might want to stick to TBS games or playing Checkers with his grandma. Perhaps there is a learning curve in terms of where to devote your time and resources (it comes easier for me having played Total Annihilation my whole life), but I promise you, heavy micromanagement, at least relative to the RTS standard, is not something this game requires to be a decent player. I don't even think you can compare it to SC2 where 200APM is a completely normal thing within the realm of competitive play. With literally 1/20th of that you can be a decent player in PA.

I'd love to find an RTS which realistically requires less than 20 actions per minute in order to be a decent player, but which was still interesting, engaging, and competitive. If you know of one, please point me in that direction.

[eRe4s3r]

Can, btw, confirm that it IS the balance mod that breaks the AI. I've never had the AI stall even once. Today I installed the balance mod to test it, and 5 out of 6 AIs stalled completely. They built a few extractors and few power plants then just stood there. One of them continued, partly I think because I was so close to it that it was forced into a fight, circumventing the freeze.

Yeah it turns out that can actually happen with mods after all, rebalance mod changes prices and AI's are apparently hard-coded to only build stuff in relation to their economy (they don't use res to the limit like players do) so this is fixed if you play on any difficulty above Normal and with at least 1.5 handicap. Currently it's a total clusterfuck when it comes to modding, despite Uber promising SDK on release, there is no SDK and no Offline play. Mods literally have to send stats to servers and hope the servers don't choke on it. Currently however they do seem to choke on certain eco balance stats. (Yes yes, I was wrong ,p)

Either way, I just had the game disconnect me on my last GW battle (5 enemy ai's, i had killed 4.. it was a nuke heavy match ;p) this game just depresses the holy moses out of me. I can't believe they actually released this. Server crashes in SP what.. the.. actual.. f....

no match-making, no ranked ladder so that one can play against people on equal skill level either. What is the point playing this? either it's noobs or it's pro's. there is no in-between.

[Mánagarmr]

In my opinion it's a failiure of time frames. I believe they set a timeframe for release and had physical launches in mind and simply didn't have the time to finish it. Because as "released" as it is, it sure as hell ain't "finished".


All I'm hoping for is that they fix it damn fast. Because I've seen other great games disappear to obscurity by such things (Demigod, for instance).

[Aklyon]

The PA Stats mod has a matchmaking system of some sorts, last I checked.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, there are several indications that PA is another example that "games don't get released, they escape".

Not that I, as one of the developers of AVWW1, can throw any stones on that one

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Planetary Annihilation is a slick, modernised RTS, engineered from the ground up to appeal to the fast-paced, competitive, hotkey-loving esports crowd. For people like me, it is a bruising gauntlet of defeat. But even I can see the appeal.

I'm not sure what to tell that reviewer. If 20 commands per minute, or 1 command every 3 seconds, seems too strenuous, he might want to stick to TBS games or playing Checkers with his grandma. Perhaps there is a learning curve in terms of where to devote your time and resources (it comes easier for me having played Total Annihilation my whole life), but I promise you, heavy micromanagement, at least relative to the RTS standard, is not something this game requires to be a decent player. I don't even think you can compare it to SC2 where 200APM is a completely normal thing within the realm of competitive play. With literally 1/20th of that you can be a decent player in PA.

I'd love to find an RTS which realistically requires less than 20 actions per minute in order to be a decent player, but which was still interesting, engaging, and competitive. If you know of one, please point me in that direction.

I'm a pretty regular player of RTSes and even PA seems intense since you have to watch not only:

1) Your ground/air forces but
2) Space Forces
3) Multiple Planets
4) Multiple scoutings
5) Figure out what to build/counter build all while doing the above things.

It's a lot of different levels that I'm not used to watching as an RTS player and can be overwhelming. Compared to SC2, you are only watching one field and that's easier to concentrate and focus your attention on. Yes, I do have PA now. Blame a certain friend of mine for being far too generous who is also a sadistic jerk that wants to ruin whatever free time I have left *coughs*. My initial matches have been really rough, it's hard for me to figure out optimal plays when I have to watch so many different places at once. So, I can imagine the reviewer having a tough time with all of the stuff he has to pay attention to. Keep also in mind that his opinion is important to those that may not be as RTS-savy and may want to know how slow/fast paced it is. As a casual reviewer, it's something I keep in mind as well, the thoughts/wants of my audience.


Granted, I've been out of RTS playing this summer so maybe that isn't helping me. I've been planning on rejoining the AI War scene later this month/next month.

[Aklyon]

I'd say (as someone who tended to spend far too long building things in SupCom campaign missions and hasn't won in GW at all), that the confusing part of PA isn't the speed or the orbital view (either you have an orbital/deepspace radar as can see non-annihilatory things coming, or you are missing an orbital/deepspace radar and should go build one soon), its the planets. if you have one planet, you have a simple set of attention points, and don't have to pay attention to all of them at once, since they're generally not terribly far from each other:

• Your bases & building more factories or energy gen.
• Scouting & Attacks
• Possibly orbital radar satellites & solar arrays/destroying the opponents'
• Also possibly, nukes. And anti-nukes.

The more planets there are, the more additional sets of those you have to pay attention to, and if theres a gas giant you probably want to build that orbital unit thats for those around it (which will need some defense, orbitals are expensive), if theres a metal planet and people have the eco to use it you either are choking all the points you can make to hold claim near the catalyst pole, or trying to demolish everything that is near said pole. And moons are just bad in general for planets when anyone within parsecs just want to mount rockets on them.

[Wingflier]

I agree. I think most of the difficulty of this game comes from what I like to call intellectual meltdown. I've literally had situations where I had so many units on so many planets and so many different things to do that my mind just kind of blanked out. It's a extreme test on your multitasking skills, and challenges your brain in a way no other game can. It becomes extremely overwhelming on the mind after a certain period of time.

Having said that, the intellectual burden of having to think about so many things at once is extremely different than the physical burden of intense micromanagement required to play a game like Starcraft. If you can handle the mental burden, it really only takes a few clicks to get everything in order. With so many game mechanics that work with the player to create automated factory and waypoint systems, the tax of PA lies on the mind.

[eRe4s3r]

Yeah what you write is actually very true. And it doesn't help the game is hampered by bad GUI more than it is by bad design. A good example are teleporters. There is no indication where they link to once linked.

I find to me the limit is 4 planets. I can not do more than 4. At least patrol area and build area commands are very useful, and for defenses take into account fire-ranges, so you can build a planet wide orbital defense grid with 2 clicks. But fighting on planets where I only see 50% of the battlefield without constant rotating around a pole (I find that it's nearly impossible to play this game for me without pole lock) ... it's a very mentally draining game. Personally I could have done with with more focus on 2 or 3 planets  and their terrain. Currently you can't even call the terrain that. Because it's either a "wall" or it's drivable. There is literally no tactical thought beyond this. But I guess UBER noticed the problem of how draining playing on spheres is themselves.

I can handle the AI on whatever is 1 above Normal in GW just fine... but you can't even put in words how aggravating it is to literally have the dang server crash on you the moment you actually would have WON GW

[doctorfrog]

Planetary Annihilation is a slick, modernised RTS, engineered from the ground up to appeal to the fast-paced, competitive, hotkey-loving esports crowd. For people like me, it is a bruising gauntlet of defeat. But even I can see the appeal.

I'm not sure what to tell that reviewer. If 20 commands per minute, or 1 command every 3 seconds, seems too strenuous, he might want to stick to TBS games or playing Checkers with his grandma. Perhaps there is a learning curve in terms of where to devote your time and resources (it comes easier for me having played Total Annihilation my whole life), but I promise you, heavy micromanagement, at least relative to the RTS standard, is not something this game requires to be a decent player. I don't even think you can compare it to SC2 where 200APM is a completely normal thing within the realm of competitive play. With literally 1/20th of that you can be a decent player in PA.

I'd love to find an RTS which realistically requires less than 20 actions per minute in order to be a decent player, but which was still interesting, engaging, and competitive. If you know of one, please point me in that direction.

I can feel what you're saying here, and I can tell from your posts that you're pretty invested in this game. Also , a lot of RockPaperShotgun articles seem to come from players who dabble rather than dive. Still, your comment "checkers with his grandma," seems to personify the type of person who PA is designed for. PA seems best for people who want to compete head-to-head and say that kind of trash talk. For people who want to dabble and wade, or face off against an AI designed to cater to their sensibilities, this game might not be for them. Or perhaps just not yet.