Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE

[Cyborg]

I would be more upset about the gamma phase, given that phase is completely bogus.

Out of curiosity, what specifically is bogus about it?  Or, at least, what's harmfully bogus about calling it a gamma instead of a beta?

It's bogus, because they made it up. They pulled it straight from the annals of their buttocks. It is horrible because they already had a beta phase, and their kickstarter is selling access based on phase of the game. The exclusivity and the timing are what you are paying for.


Look:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts


There is no mention of a gamma phase. Who else makes up terms like that? Beta is early release. Beta in the software industry comes before release. Making up terms in order to pull in more early release money is bogus.


"Hey, would you like early release access? It's the Alpha!"

"Hey, would you like early release access? It's the Beta!"

"Hey, would you like early release access? It's the Gamma!"


They can just keep pulling out letters of the alphabet to sell the idea of early release. Just come up with a new letter when you want another wave of money.


Bogus.

[keith.lamothe]

I've seen other games have gamma phases in the dev cycle, so I don't think it's quite as ex rectum as that.  But I do get that, particularly combined with all the other borderline behavior regarding pricing and such thus far, it stops being borderline and just jumps right over.

The initial kerfluffle from pricing public access to the alpha the same as it was for the Kickstarter backers was (imo) the result of an understandable if unfortunately naive move.  But if they wanted the accusations of blatant-money-grabbing to stop there then they probably should have avoided things like pulling very-rarely-used dev phases out of ... er, a hat.

[doctorfrog]

Is the game any good yet? Mostly I hear about pricing and Kickstarter levels.

[keith.lamothe]

Is the game any good yet? Mostly I hear about pricing and Kickstarter levels.

From the videos I've seen ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84p0WbnSwic&list=TL4ahtare3AY8MhvPmWxp3ACzcwPDpzHZR being a decent and recent example) there's certainly a game there that looks enjoyable.  If you liked the original Total Annihilation, at least.

I already have it, but I'm waiting until sometime after release to try to dig in.  Sounds like they've still got some significant balance issues to work out (T2 Air was rather OP until quite recently, and the recent nerf looks like a step in the right direction but not far enough, etc).

[doctorfrog]

Cool, I look forward to seeing it when it releases. It looks like a good game.

[Histidine]

Dunno about the gamma thing, but on the alpha price: Call me a Social Darwinist, but I am of the view that anyone big enough of a fool to pay USD 90 (1.5x an AAA title at release today) for a game in its most primitive, incomplete state deserves to be parted with their money, and the cynic in me applauds the PA devs for ruthlessly fleecing sheep with too much wool for their own good.

[zespri]

That or you simply want to support the developers.

[Misery]

Dunno about the gamma thing, but on the alpha price: Call me a Social Darwinist, but I am of the view that anyone big enough of a fool to pay USD 90 (1.5x an AAA title at release today) for a game in its most primitive, incomplete state deserves to be parted with their money, and the cynic in me applauds the PA devs for ruthlessly fleecing sheep with too much wool for their own good.

Agreed completely.

That or you simply want to support the developers.

This, though, does NOT require a totally crazy/greedy price to do that, though.  For any well-thought-out game kickstarter, a price point of 90 is usually WAY above what you need to pay to enter alpha OR beta, and probably comes with those AND a big pile of other stuffs.  But the base price for alpha/beta is usually quite a lot lower. 

I'm all for supporting devs, but there's a difference between "supporting" and "being ripped off".

[zespri]

If you want to support - you pay. If you feel you are being ripped off  - you don't. It's up to a seller to sufficiently and honestly describe what is being sold and it's up to a buyer to take it or to leave it.

Putting a high price tag on something that is not worth it may be stupid on the seller side but never a crime or reproachable. In this particular case it is not even stupid, on the contrary, they realized that the level of support they are going to get is high, so they made it supper easy for the consumer to provide this support. I cannot see how this can be construed as ripping off.

Now if you say that certain features will only be available to the backers and then sell the same features to everyone AND for a lower price - this is dishonest and despicable.  This way you basically tricked people into buying something for a higher price promising them that there wii be no price drop and then broke this promise. Some of the people would have hold on buying if they hoped to get the same cheaper later.

[Misery]

If you want to support - you pay. If you feel you are being ripped off  - you don't. It's up to a seller to sufficiently and honestly describe what is being sold and it's up to a buyer to take it or to leave it.

Putting a high price tag on something that is not worth it may be stupid on the seller side but never a crime or reproachable. In this particular case it is not even stupid, on the contrary, they realized that the level of support they are going to get is high, so they made it supper easy for the consumer to provide this support. I cannot see how this can be construed as ripping off.

Now if you say that certain features will only be available to the backers and then sell the same features to everyone AND for a lower price - this is dishonest and despicable.  This way you basically tricked people into buying something for a higher price promising them that there wii be no price drop and then broke this promise. Some of the people would have hold on buying if they hoped to get the same cheaper later.

Again, the reason why people are feeling ripped off by the price that was for the alpha is because it SERIOUSLY wasnt worth $90.  Not even close. 

As had been stated above, this is $90 being paid for a game that wasnt even CLOSE to being close to being finished.  AND totally untested.  At that point, the game was JUST hype.... nothing more.  So what do they do?  They put a price on it that's way higher than even high-priced, full AAA releases.  You just dont DO that.  It's one of those sorts of things where, no, it's not illegal or anything, but you come off as a greedy snotwad who likes screwing over your customers if you try it, and I completely agree with anyone that thinks that of them.  AND it's bloody stupid. When they did it, they pushed ALOT of people away from the game permanently;  it's why the game already has such a reputation for there being tons of "haters" who wont buy it now.  That's alot of potential paying consumers lost right then and there.  AND alot that will be lost later on, as people do things like tell their friends "Oh, no, dont buy that, it's by THESE guys, who did this thing here, they're pretty nasty" and stuff like that.  That one I've already heard a bunch of people say to others at this point in various places.

Not to mention that, going along with what Histadine said, these guys are essentially using this to prey upon the stupid, getting them to pay insane costs for something that should coss probably less than half of that.  Not only is it a low thing to do, it's pretty much a direct insult to the potential consumerbase, and the smarter ones DO notice this fact.  It's another reason for some to not buy it at all now.  Makes me think of EA/Activision/Capcom, really.  Maybe not QUITE on their level of jackassery, but close enough.

[zespri]

It's one of those sorts of things where, no, it's not illegal or anything, but you come off as a greedy snotwad who likes screwing over your customers if you try it

Yeah, that's completily ridiculous that sound and fair business strategy incites that much crowd hatred. Unfortunately people en masse can't think logically. Blizzard btw is another great example of things done right, and look at all of those who think that they strategies are questionable. They do great games, they sell them for fair prices and they give us hours and hours of enjoyment. But haters of course gonna hate.

Now what is stupid is the EA's Dungeon Keeper for iPad. But that much is obvious, because one cant buy it other than by mistake. PA on the other hand has all the promises of becoming a great game.

I personally wait until it's released / reviewed before buying it, but I do hope dor the good.

Did you by any chance backed them on Kikcstarter and now feel cheated out of your money?

[doctorfrog]

I'm gonna roll the dice here and wager he's expressing indignation on behalf of other people.

[Misery]

It's one of those sorts of things where, no, it's not illegal or anything, but you come off as a greedy snotwad who likes screwing over your customers if you try it

Yeah, that's completily ridiculous that sound and fair business strategy incites that much crowd hatred. Unfortunately people en masse can't think logically. Blizzard btw is another great example of things done right, and look at all of those who think that they strategies are questionable. They do great games, they sell them for fair prices and they give us hours and hours of enjoyment. But haters of course gonna hate.

Now what is stupid is the EA's Dungeon Keeper for iPad. But that much is obvious, because one cant buy it other than by mistake. PA on the other hand has all the promises of becoming a great game.

I personally wait until it's released / reviewed before buying it, but I do hope dor the good.

Did you by any chance backed them on Kikcstarter and now feel cheated out of your money?

Blizzard, though, didn't use really loopy pricing schemes.   Now, granted, they're with Activision now.... so some of that wonky stuff in the future could happen, definitely (like the auction house... but at least that's about to be removed), but still... their games have normal prices.  Always have.   You pay pretty much what you expect for a high-budget new release with them.  As opposed to "pay more than double the cost of the game for this super early buggy-as-hell untested/unproven video game!  We say it's awesome, so it is!  ONLY $90!  That's like, change you can find under your car seat!"

Though I cannot speak for WoW, as while I like MMOs I never cared for that one specifically.  But it's very hard to compare MMO pricing and such to any other type of game.

As for being cheated out of money?  Nope.  I didn't bother with the Kickstarter.  Even if I had though, it'd be little reason for me to get annoyed.  I generally tend to have alot of available cash (wealthy family, which is also why I have so much free time), so I've not really got a practical spending limit.  If I feel like tossing $90 at something, I just do it, it doesnt actually matter. 

As Doctorfrog said, it's indignation on behalf of others.  I know more than a couple of people that woulda loved to have picked it up themselves, but.... at $90?  They cant afford that.... certainly not for ONE game.  The price is down NOW, yeah, but they all lost interest and now hate the developer; I cannot blame them.  It aint just them though, it's the principle of the thing, and bad business practices of any sort are one of the things that can really bug the hell outta me.  Well, more than other things, anyway.

[Mánagarmr]

I find it hilarious that people "paid for Alpha access and it was nowhere near finished". Oh really, Sherlock? It's an alpha, what the heck were people expecting? An AAA-type "beta"? Ie the finished game?


If you pay for alpha access (ALPHA! Not even beta!) you have to expect it to be basically the skeleton of a game. Alphas are mostly not even feature complete and contains tons of placeholder art and code.

[Aklyon]

I find it hilarious that people "paid for Alpha access and it was nowhere near finished". Oh really, Sherlock? It's an alpha, what the heck were people expecting? An AAA-type "beta"? Ie the finished game?


If you pay for alpha access (ALPHA! Not even beta!) you have to expect it to be basically the skeleton of a game. Alphas are mostly not even feature complete and contains tons of placeholder art and code.

I'll second this. Its not Alpha access as in 'Oh man, I'm alpha, I'm awesomerer than you'. Its 'Buggy missing features alpha, you aren't missing much if you wait.'