Author Topic: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE  (Read 154556 times)

Offline zebramatt

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #195 on: September 12, 2012, 02:36:44 am »
I concur with Keith's assertion that they've probably committed to enough development tasks for the time available now - there's only so much money you can chuck at something to do more in a limited timeframe and still ensure it's all of a very high standard - but wanted to provide something nonetheless well outside the scope of the original project, like hiring a full orchestra to record the soundtrack; or a movie maker for a documentary.

Personally I'm pretty excited by the full orchestral score, I have to say! And even the documentary might turn out to be a gem, if they make it that far.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #196 on: September 12, 2012, 05:59:16 am »
I absolutely loved the OST for TA. Especially how it was dynamic depending on what was happening in the game. Calm, brooding music during non-combat and building, and epic, bombastic music when combat was had. It was awesome!
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Offline zespri

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #197 on: September 12, 2012, 07:08:50 am »
Irrelevant for the current discussion, but I was just reminiscing about the first RTSs. The very first one (in my experience) was Dune. Then (across several years span) was Warcraft and CC. And Total Annihilation was after that. And when It came out I was not particularly impressed. I did not feel it added anything new to the genre as compared to the two clear leaders which were Warcraft and CC.

Tell me, what was it in TA (as compared to other RTSs) that was particularly appealing to you?

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #198 on: September 12, 2012, 07:13:31 am »
First off, the graphics was absolutely something new with TA, seeing as how it was polygon based. It also had physics simulated debris, making the battles far more vivid. It had REALLY devastating weapons, long range artillery, excellent sound design (I absolutely love the sound of the Intimidator/Big Bertha) and massive battles with enormous maps and hundreds of units.

It was grand scale strategy, nothing any prior strategy game could ever have offered me. I'm not a fan of the smaller scale tactical RTS genre (like C&C, Starcraft and similar games) due to their twitchy nature and artificial balancing. The grand strategy game allows for semi-lifelike strategies to be used (bombing runs, surgical strikes against key infrastructure, long range bombardment and similar). The "small scale" tactical RTS rarely allow for such strategies since they're so fast paced. Very often those games are decided in one engagement. On Starcraft, for instance, two max supply armies meet up midfield, one scores a decisive victory due to better micro and/or unit composition, and from there it's just a question of time before the losing player "gg:s", if not right there and then.

That is simply not fun to me.
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Offline Volatar

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #199 on: September 12, 2012, 09:59:45 am »
And again Fox takes all the words out of my mouth.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #200 on: September 12, 2012, 10:36:20 am »
TA was RTS done... differently.  I've never seen an RTS that felt like that (though I haven't played Supreme Commander, I understand it to be similar to some degree).  It was my favorite singleplayer RTS experience of my youth.  Kohan comes close in its own, very different way (I'd be backing a Kohan 3 Kickstarter just as hard), but that was mainly in campaign and co-op; I think TA was substantially better on singleplayer skirmish.

Big Bertha.  That's a concept-changer right there.  And they went way more wild than that later on.

Though for me the real potential came with mods that added big multi-part mechs (beyond just the Krogoth of TA's expansion), more powerful high-tech stuff, etc.  Made my skirmishes against the AI far more entertaining.

If all this project does is turn out a modernized TA, that's more than worth the money to me.  If it also adds orbital and interplanetary stuff, and a procedural galactic campaign... wow.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #201 on: September 12, 2012, 10:42:38 am »
Irrelevant for the current discussion, but I was just reminiscing about the first RTSs. The very first one (in my experience) was Dune. Then (across several years span) was Warcraft and CC. And Total Annihilation was after that. And when It came out I was not particularly impressed. I did not feel it added anything new to the genre as compared to the two clear leaders which were Warcraft and CC.

Tell me, what was it in TA (as compared to other RTSs) that was particularly appealing to you?
Many things to say here:

First thing, TA was the first RTS game to be rendered in true 3D.  While you still could only have a 2D perspective, the entire battlefield happened on a 3D scale.  Bullets could miss, fly over or past their targets, hit things they weren't supposed to (including allies), etc.  This was a huge innovation into the previously 2D genre.  The scale of the game was much bigger than anything that had been done before as well.  While Starcraft may have had a 200 unit limit, TA had a 500 unit limit, which could be increased to 1,000, 5,000 or more with small patches.  The graphics were also very realistic and beautiful compared to the previous cartoony/gritty graphics of the previous games.

As has been said before, TA was the first game to put a wonderful full-orchestral soundtrack into their game, and even have the game play the right tunes for the moment!  It even had the ability to play the music from the CD in your CD Drive, so I often played Total Annihilation with the Star Wars soundtrack ;p  You could assign songs from your favorite CD to certain activities of the game like "building", "scouting", "battle".  To this day, I don't think any game has replicated that awesome feature.

In addition, the ability to go land/sea/air/hovercraft/submarine, and really cover the ENTIRE SCOPE of what was possible was a huge improvement to the genre.  Sure, Red Alert had sea, but they didn't have hovercraft, or amphibious land units.  Starcraft didn't have water at all!  The air aspect of Total Annihilation was ****ing fantastic.  The huge dog fights, air superiority battles, bombing runs, VTOL raiding, and so many other wonderful aspects that no RTS had to offer (compare it to Starcraft with boring aircraft which are basically helicopters without blades).

Finally, I have to say it:  Nukes.  Yes nukes.  No, not ****ty Starcraft or Red Alert nukes...I mean REAL NUKES.  I mean real, DESTROY THE MAP, nukes.  Get a nuke into your opponent's base and win the game.  Seriously!  What is with these crappy nukes in RTS games?  Nukes in Red Alert wouldn't even kill medium tanks, much less someone's base, and Starcraft nukes were even more pathetic than that.  Nukes in Total Annihilation felt like NUKES.  They were so powerful and did so much damage, the feeling of pure elation you got when you successfully landed one can't be compared to that of other games.  Also, the implementation of long-range artillery (as in map-wide) is another aspect that no RTS had ever done before, and it was done wonderfully.

So in closing, Total Annihilation, though not perfect, completely reinvented the genre, and added, literally and metaphorically, a new dimension.  I still think it was the best RTS game ever made, and for good reason.  Apparently Gamespy agrees with me:

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/494/494673p11.html

(mod edit: asterisk'd certain 4 letter words that don't really fit with our profanity policy; though yea, they're probably what the TA player on the other end of a nuke-worthy-of-the-name would say)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 10:49:34 am by keith.lamothe »
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #202 on: September 12, 2012, 11:00:05 am »
Red Alert nukes...
I remember a kennel surviving a nuke..
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #203 on: September 12, 2012, 11:11:33 am »
Red Alert nukes...
I remember a kennel surviving a nuke..
Which incapacitated the remaining enemies through sheer cognitive dissonance.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #204 on: September 12, 2012, 11:39:26 am »
And again Fox takes all the words out of my mouth.
I'm simply that awesome.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #205 on: September 12, 2012, 11:42:59 am »
Bullets could miss, fly over or past their targets, hit things they weren't supposed to (including allies), etc.  This was a huge innovation into the previously 2D genre. 
I completely forgot to mention the physics system. THAT is a selling point right there. It's what makes Supreme Commander so fantastic as well. I mean, you can literally hit a bomber en route to the enemy with a nuke, because it's physically THERE. Same thing, and this has actually happened in some of my games: I have artillery shelling the enemy frontlines, keeping his engineers busy and forcing him to protect his shielded front, and he attacks me with a swarm of airplanes. Some of them actually get shot down as they travel through the artillery barrage. Do that in Starcraft, I dare you.

Two other things I remember very fondly: RADAR functionality. There's SOMETHING out there, and you can shell it. But you'd have to scout it to see what it was. Want to sneak up on your enemy? Use stealth troops OR hit his power grid to offline his RADAR. Brilliant!

Also, second thing. One word: Annihilator. DAMN dat lazor!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 11:49:01 am by Moonshine Fox »
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #206 on: September 12, 2012, 11:56:01 am »
I was already excited to play this game.

Now I'm wetting my pants over it! (Sure, why not?)

I might have to go get Spring RTS...

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #207 on: September 12, 2012, 12:24:19 pm »
Sorry about the profanity.

I was thinking about some more things TA did right while in class:

Build queueing - In every RTS before TA (that I know of), each unit had to be clicked once it was ready to build (Red Alert), or had a very small queue (Starcraft); in Total Annihilation the queue was limitless.  You could queue up 100 tanks for example, so you didn't have to keep coming back and reproducing them.  This gave you a lot more freedom to spend time having fun (in battle), instead of having to constantly perform the tedious tasks of pointless macromanagement.

Resource management
- The way Total Annihilation approached resource management was truly unique.  In games before, you had a static amount of resources which could be used to make a static amount of units.  In Total Annihilation, you could queue up limitless amounts of army and buildings, because the system was income/outcome based, meaning that you could plan to build things even before you had "money" in the bank.  Once again, this allows the player more time on the battlefield, and less time in the base.

The Commander - TA was the first RTS game to introduce "The Commander" unit, which basically acted like a hybrid of the King and Queen in Chess.  It was like the King in that if it died, you lost, but like the Queen in that it was your most powerful piece.  The commander, though fairly slow, could build faster than any other engineer in the game, making him a powerful economic tool to have in your arsenal.  He also had a fair bit of health, making him a good "tank" in an offensive push, perhaps turning the tide of battle by absorbing shots for your other units.  Most importantly however, his main weapon - The D-Gun, and also the most powerful weapon in the entire game (kills anything in 1 shot), is what truly defined him as an awesome and unique force; an army of one.

Metal Corpses and Environmental Features - TA was the first game in which your units left realistic "corpses" when they died, impeding the path of units trying to get around them, and also being a source of extra metal when reclaimed.  This added a brand new dynamic to the game that had never been done before, and was a major consideration when attacking or defending.  For example, when attacking in Total Annihilation, if the attack failed, not only did you lose all the units sent in the attack, but ALSO gave the opponent a ton of free metal in the process. ;p Things like rocks and trees (environmental features) could also be reclaimed into your resource banks, which opened up some pretty cool economic options.

In the expansions they actually added "City Maps", in which the players battled in ruined cities, where every car, light pole, and building could be converted into another part of your war machine; pretty cool.

Defensive playstyles
- Most RTS games force you into an aggressive role (think Starcraft where there are few defensive structures, and to win you HAVE to send units into your opponent's base).  However, Total Annihilation offered defensive players ("turtles", as they were called) something too.  The defensive structures in Total Annihilation were much more cost-effective and powerful than in previous RTS games, meaning you could make a fairly impenetrable wall of structures to take on a never-ending horde of enemy units.  Corpses also helped in this regard because the more the enemy player died in an attempt to destroy you, the more the corpses of his own units became an obstacle.  Also, Total Annihilation offered you the ability to turn 1 resource into another, creating a powerful, self-sustaining base that wasn't possible in other games.

So all in all, Total Annihilation offered the RTS genre something so ahead of its time, RTS games today are STILL struggling to catch up with all the innovations and features it brought to the table.



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Offline orzelek

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #208 on: September 12, 2012, 01:34:28 pm »
I got finally convinced.. this maybe something worth creation of one more payment account :D

Offline icepick37

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Re: Planetary Annihilation: Total Annihilation IN SPACE
« Reply #209 on: September 12, 2012, 01:55:32 pm »
I backed!  :D  Sniped a $15 slot, haha. Apparently there's people jumping ship, though.  :/

Hopefully we make galactic war.  :(