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Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: kasnavada on September 30, 2016, 02:28:54 AM

Title: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on September 30, 2016, 02:28:54 AM
Woah.

Anyway tried it ? It's Creeper world 3... IN SPACE !
By the guy that did Creeper world too.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on September 30, 2016, 05:39:45 AM
.....Huh. I hadn't even seen this.

Bah, I don't need to be buying more games right now, but I do definitely want this one.  Creeper World 3 is very good.  Bloody weird, but very good.  This developer knows his stuff.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on September 30, 2016, 05:51:19 AM
It's out since today :D
I'll probably buy it too for the same reasons, but I've got Luke Cage to watch first.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on September 30, 2016, 10:31:08 AM
a friend of mine has creeper world and I always thought it looked interesting but I was always invested in other things.
I'm not the moment though so ill probably play this today and ill be interested in hearing if creeper world is still worth playing with this existing from you guys.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Draco18s on September 30, 2016, 12:16:06 PM
Link for relevance.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/422900/
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on September 30, 2016, 12:30:21 PM
a friend of mine has creeper world and I always thought it looked interesting but I was always invested in other things.
I'm not the moment though so ill probably play this today and ill be interested in hearing if creeper world is still worth playing with this existing from you guys.

One way or another, I'll just say that Creeper World is bloody fantastic.  It kinda reminds me of Arcen's games in a lot of ways:  Unending replayability (it's a TD game, but one that DOESNT need pre-made maps since it's not purely based on "routes" like most TD games are, so you can have it generate new maps randomly), tons and tons of strategy involving a lot of unique mechanics and ideas, and it's just very unique.  A lot of depth.

Cool look to it too, and concept.  Tower Defense games are interesting but so many of them just make so little sense to me.  All these aliens and whatever always running in perfect formation down lanes without actually attacking any of the tower things that are shooting at them, that's the norm, always baffled me.  Doesn't make the games less fun, but still, baffling.  Creeper World just skips all of that and says "HERE'S SOME EVIL GOO, SCREW LANES, IT JUST COVERS EVERYTHING". 

I also really like the sheer complexity along with the fact that you're constantly DOING things.  A lot of TD games have a lot of "waiting period" moments where you just genuinely have nothing to do, or outright CANT do anything, even when your strategy is going well.  I mean, you can only do a few things in most of them, place towers, upgrade them, or remove/sell them.  So, a lot of... not doing stuff, and a lot of those games have fast-forward functions as a result.  I never found that sort of thing happening with this game.

One way or another I do personally think the game is absolutely worth a go, regardless of how this new one turns out.

EDIT:  Actually, looking at this trailer for the new game and comparing them, this looks REALLY different in a lot of ways.  Now I'm even more intrigued.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on September 30, 2016, 05:04:00 PM
I... bought it.

Still doing the campaign. It's clearly taken from creeper world, I mean all the mechanics for the creep are there but... in "space", and in some way it's like gratuitous space battle where you control the ships & fight creep. It's a bit early for a complete overview of the game since the campaign, like the one in the creeper world game introduces concepts one at a time.

I've also not started yet to design ships (campaign not meant for that) - and that sounds like a rather big part of the game.

For now I like it very much.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 01, 2016, 01:11:20 AM
Sounds like it's come out well, then.  I'll be interested to hear how it gets as the game progresses.   Particularly the differences between it and Creeper World.

Ugh, I'd buy it right away but my debit card is borked again.  I'll need to go and get those bloody Steam cards from a certain store with a very irritating location in order to do that.  But knowing this developer it's going to be worth that. 

Price also seems really good considering the absurd amount of replay value these games have.

I really think this developer's games deserve to be MUCH more well known than they are.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 01, 2016, 04:25:49 AM
Sounds like it's come out well, then.  I'll be interested to hear how it gets as the game progresses.   Particularly the differences between it and Creeper World.

Ugh, I'd buy it right away but my debit card is borked again.  I'll need to go and get those bloody Steam cards from a certain store with a very irritating location in order to do that.  But knowing this developer it's going to be worth that. 

Price also seems really good considering the absurd amount of replay value these games have.

I really think this developer's games deserve to be MUCH more well known than they are.
i look forward to reading the wall of text your I expect you'll post about this game when that time comes (:
but for now I just realised I need to play more of the unreal world before I forget about it completely
(its according to the dev. a survival rogue like rpg and its been getting updated for a stupidly long time 24 years in fact also here's the link for those who are curious http://store.steampowered.com/app/351700/)
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 01, 2016, 05:04:09 AM
....I'd almost forgotten about that game!   I still don't have that yet.

Ugh.  There's been way too much awesome stuff recently. 

Though I wouldn't be playing that one right now anyway.  All action games today, I'm SO freaking caffeinated.  May as well use the heightened reaction time while I've got it.  Didn't mean to drink that damn much though.  Mountain Dew, so damn tasty though, and I was thirsty as heck...

One way or another though I need to go get freaking Steam cards before I can buy anything else.  Which is irritating.

Maybe I can find some gameplay videos of this game though to see it in action.  Really curious about all the differences between this and Creeper World.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on October 01, 2016, 05:23:43 AM
Well, finished the campaign. At 2:30 AM. Steam tells me I played 6 hours without stopping. Sigh...

About the differences between Creeper world and this... well. Creep's gone, replaced by "particules". The main concepts don't change. There still is "special creep" buildings that builds their stuff, power their weapons, generates particules. To be destroyed, you need a special turret, much like in creeper world. Particules are destroyed by being shot at and are constantly generated.

The main differences are:
- the particules behave... well more or less like the ships in AI War do. They check constantly your forces and try to kill your ship, conquer more territories, defend its territory. Imagine that in Creeper world the creep got out of its valley ? That's about the feeling it has.
- Turrets are gone and are replaced by a series of ships. There is a dozen base designs, but you can create your own. You can only build the ships that are in your fleet, unless you capture some blueprints on the battlefields which add another unit to your fleet. Interesting thing, ships are tied to the map, so there is a "default" fleet with each map, but you can, if you can substitute your fleet if you want more or less of a challenge.
- most map now have "neutral" particules which you can use as enemy particules do, but you're the one "controlling" them.

There is with the base game a 16 mission campaign, which ties with the story from the other creeper worlds, a dozen "hard" missions specially selected by the dev, a map editor, and a mecanism to share / play maps done by other users. There's about 90 maps I think there for now. Last, but not least, a random map creator.

It's very strange, because those ain't "major" modifications so the game feels the same but ain't. There should be a lot of videos by now if you want a look. I like it.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 01, 2016, 07:46:23 AM
Huh.  So they changed up the nature of the central threat, then?  Interesting, that.   That might explain a lack of turrets, which I'm guessing wouldn't quite fit that new sort of behavior, despite how mobile CW's turrets were.

Ship designing always is one of those game elements that just seems odd to me though.  I'm never quite sure what to make of that one. 
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on October 01, 2016, 09:56:16 AM
Thing is you don't have to care about ship designing if you don't have to. The map editor has you define a set a ships that the player will play with. And, there is a "leaderboard" for each map like in the previous games, but seperated for "default map ships" and "play with your fleet".

As far as ideas go, that's genius. Someone wants a challenge ? Create a map with ships to fine-tune the perfect challenge or whatever your fancy is. And, there still a separate leaderboard of the best ship designer if you're into that.


Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 01, 2016, 10:53:06 AM
Ah, you're right, that is a genius idea there.  That's one of the better uses of that mechanic I can think of, rather than constantly requiring that the player do it to advance at all (which always seems to be really, really hard to balance in games that do it). 

Currently I'm watching someone playing the release version, doing a high-difficulty map made by some player... pretty crazy.   Started with this enormous but basically immobile space-station ship behind sort of a barricade, with massive amounts of particles and loopy things coming from the right; very cool start, and it just went all nutty fast.  Some interesting mechanics and strategies showing here...  there was one part where he had this big blob of particles that really needed to be gotten rid of ASAP, so he takes this support ship that's got a lot of frontal hull on it, sends it over there and just smashes it into the blob; the front hull gets all torn up but eats away at most of the blob, so the other ships could then get up there and claim that important spot that they weren't able to take down with their own weapons.  I get the impression that wasn't really how he was supposed to do it, but... certainly shows the sheer versatility of the mechanics.  Which is part of what made CW3 so good.  Granted, I don't ENTIRELY understand everything that's going on in the video since I've not played it, but still.

And I see the basic "slowly push back the encroaching enemy" idea is still there.  As opposed to just taking really big areas all at once like a lot of strategy games seem to have you do.

I have to wonder how the game is on weaker PCs though... that's a really, REALLY large number of things moving around all at once, with that very fluid motion to it and so many other things to collide with... something tells me this is a game I'd only be using on my main PC here, my laptop would just melt.

Whole thing looks downright superb, though.  Indeed, I must get it.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 01, 2016, 02:06:17 PM
Its pretty damn good, but thats what I'd been expecting. The creeper world guy knows his stuff.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 01, 2016, 04:16:00 PM
i played it for a bit 2 hours ago and so far I'm six campagian missions in and I'm digging it so far in the last mission i did i unlocked a pretty intresting ship whitch i whont spoil for those who havent played yet.
the narratives throwaway but the musics pretty dope (all 2 of the tracks I've seen so far) not much else to say till i get back my non toaster laptop realy.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 01, 2016, 04:36:28 PM
The narrative makes more sense if you remember the one from CW3.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 01, 2016, 05:48:39 PM
The narrative makes more sense if you remember the one from CW3.
haven't actually played that one but the story makes plenty sense its just not terribly interesting is all which is what I meant by saying it felt a bit throwaway(not exactly what I said but it doesn't feel fair to call it objectively bad when I haven't experienced all of if) also I forgot to mention that its been performing fine so far no performance issues at all.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 04, 2016, 02:16:15 AM
Well, I picked this up (as if I needed ANOTHER strategy game right now...), and so far, this is pretty great.  It's a far cry from CW3 though; very different games, with the focus on highly mobile ships instead of turrets (though the ships also function as turrets as I find myself often having to leave specific ones in certain spots to hold back the nonstop blobs), and the variable behaviors and types of the Particulate.  Interesting how that stuff behaves... more of a threat that can come directly at you OR flow, but it doesn't have the same threatening property of simply drowning absolutely everything like the Creeper did.

So far the game seems quite a bit easier than CW3, at least for the campaign.  Part of it is certainly that energy production/usage is MUCH simpler this time around... no real focus on infrastructure.  Just grab energy mine locations and go.  Some people definitely wont like that part, I could go either way really.  I'm tearing through the campaign very quickly though. 

Love some of the creative mechanics here, the "grabber" ships sure are fun.  And as usual I like the fact that this is a very ACTIVE game... if I'm sitting around having a dull moment, it probably means I'm doing something wrong or just outright missing something.  This developer is really good at keeping their games' pace/flow going at a good rate.

I do think the campaign should have been tougher though.  That's one complaint I saw right away just randomly looking at reviews on Steam, some players were really put off by that.  Though the game is clearly focused on post-campaign content than anything else.

Music is great as always.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 04, 2016, 04:28:12 AM
Well, I picked this up (as if I needed ANOTHER strategy game right now...), and so far, this is pretty great.  It's a far cry from CW3 though; very different games, with the focus on highly mobile ships instead of turrets (though the ships also function as turrets as I find myself often having to leave specific ones in certain spots to hold back the nonstop blobs), and the variable behaviors and types of the Particulate.  Interesting how that stuff behaves... more of a threat that can come directly at you OR flow, but it doesn't have the same threatening property of simply drowning absolutely everything like the Creeper did.

So far the game seems quite a bit easier than CW3, at least for the campaign.  Part of it is certainly that energy production/usage is MUCH simpler this time around... no real focus on infrastructure.  Just grab energy mine locations and go.  Some people definitely wont like that part, I could go either way really.  I'm tearing through the campaign very quickly though. 

Love some of the creative mechanics here, the "grabber" ships sure are fun.  And as usual I like the fact that this is a very ACTIVE game... if I'm sitting around having a dull moment, it probably means I'm doing something wrong or just outright missing something.  This developer is really good at keeping their games' pace/flow going at a good rate.

I do think the campaign should have been tougher though.  That's one complaint I saw right away just randomly looking at reviews on Steam, some players were really put off by that.  Though the game is clearly focused on post-campaign content than anything else.

Music is great as always.
yea the grabbers pretty neto aint it? my favourite ship so far though is
the massive RAM ship being able to send that into a group of threats and have it come of fairly healthy is wonderful
the destroyer feels a little bit pointless not that ill be using the default fleet outside the campaigns.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 04, 2016, 08:18:07 AM
yea the grabbers pretty neto aint it? my favourite ship so far though is
the massive RAM ship being able to send that into a group of threats and have it come of fairly healthy is wonderful

Ah, yes, that thing.  That might be my favorite also now.  Out of so many units in strategy games that might be the one that fits my general gaming style the most.  Screw weapons and tactics and such, just SLAM RIGHT INTO IT.  Screw walls, too, while you're at it. 

Favorite moment so far, that really made me realize how strong that thing could be, was at one point in my last mission (the one where the cannons from Creeper World show up for the first time) where I had it sitting still for awhile since it wasn't time to fling it at stuff yet, this being after a confusing battle earlier, and I suddenly notice:  The ship is letting off little sparks constantly.  I'm thinking... what the heck is doing that?  There's nothing around here to damage it (this was near the energy mine, so it just kept healing).  So I moved it out of the way... and I found out it had been sitting *on* an emitter that entire time.  Just parked right on top of it.  And the emitter couldn't exactly break free so long as the ship had energy.  Parked it right back on top, got the Lathes over there, and BAMF, that was the end of that thing.  I was quite entertained.

Quote
the destroyer feels a little bit pointless not that ill be using the default fleet outside the campaigns.

Aye, that thing seems to be a light support ship at best.  The expendable one; if the big hammer thing isn't nearby, I find it okay to just ram something with the destroyer as a backup plan, when something needs ramming.  It sure wont last as long but it can at least take a chunk of stuff out that way and delay things until the hammer can get there.

As for other ships I haven't even messed with the editor yet myself.  It's interesting to see that the game actually divides scoreboards into two sets depending on wether you're playing a given map with the basic set of ships or a custom set.    I'm guessing that there's going to be a lot of custom maps specifically geared towards one or the other.


On a side note, maybe it's just my playstyle but I sure find myself microing the heck outta everything in this.  Granted I do that to a degree in CW3 as well, but even moreso here.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on October 04, 2016, 08:29:36 AM
Aye, that thing seems to be a light support ship at best.  The expendable one; if the big hammer thing isn't nearby, I find it okay to just ram something with the destroyer as a backup plan, when something needs ramming.  It sure wont last as long but it can at least take a chunk of stuff out that way and delay things until the hammer can get there.

Ahah, I did that a lot ;) . Bring the lathes in, then sacrifice the other ships for cover.

I tried some user-maps and a lot of them have custom fleets. They have varying difficulty though. One was very strange, only 1 emitter... which emits some kind of serpent particulate endlessly. Which cuts into different parts when shot. Watching that one move forward, backward, feinting like a sword sometime was really, really fun. I kind of wonder what advanced maps could generate once tricks like this one get better known.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 04, 2016, 10:36:03 AM
So far the game seems quite a bit easier than CW3, at least for the campaign.  Part of it is certainly that energy production/usage is MUCH simpler this time around... no real focus on infrastructure.  Just grab energy mine locations and go.  Some people definitely wont like that part, I could go either way really.  I'm tearing through the campaign very quickly though.
The energy is a lot like CW2's wireless energy tech, but not sideview, and with relay ships instead of microrifts.

Also, the Hammer is great at clearing nebulae or repairing yours. So many of the blue dot weapon on one durable ship. My favorite ship would be the Varro over the hammer, though. Triple Mk7s on a non-custom ship is a great thing.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: TheVampire100 on October 05, 2016, 02:38:33 PM
I bought the game because you guys couldn't stop talking about it and raised my interest. I hope you are happy now.
Anyway, can't wait to test this. I really liked CW3 and if this is any similiar to it, this can only be good.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 05, 2016, 02:54:31 PM
I bought the game because you guys couldn't stop talking about it and raised my interest. I hope you are happy now.
Anyway, can't wait to test this. I really liked CW3 and if this is any similiar to it, this can only be good.
your welcome  ;) and it is good in fact its pretty sick.


also I always thought that blue dot weapon was a slower like the white it honestly never occurred to me it could be anything different but i guess that explains why I haven't been getting as much use out of that ship as much as I should.
not that it'll matter when I get round beating the campaigns and move on to the user generated stuff.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 07, 2016, 01:55:56 AM
So, playing further into this, and.... yeah, at this point I freaking adore this game.  It's just as damn good as Creeper World, and honestly, these two games are the only strategy games I consider to be on par with Arcen's stuff.  I find them to be just that freaking good.

And just so creative.  I don't know how this developer comes up with this stuff (which is also something I've said about Arcen too, heh). 

The Hammer is still the best ship/unit ever.  I don't think I'll ever tire of ramming that into stuff.  It amazes me though that even a simplistic unit like that has tons of versatility.  The only ships that aren't too versatile are the anti-stunner things.

Wrote up a big review on Steam about this, as it's one that's worth the time to do that.  I hope the developer keeps going with this one... I'd love to see what other ideas he can come up with here.

EDIT:  Okay, I will say one thing:  The "giant freaking cannon" thing is probably the worst (most bugged?) element I've seen in these games so far.  It seems almost totally untested; fires through walls, extreme RNG as to wether or not it'll one-hit-kill a ship, extreme RNG as to what it targets, no ship in the game can withstand it since the death-particles can spawn ON a ship's core (....what?  This got past testing how exactly?) .... there's zero strategy to these.  At all.  Ugh.  It's bad enough that I'll probably always completely avoid any maps that have this thing.  Currently I'm just doing mission 15, which.... is so bloody boring since it almost entirely consists of waiting for things to very sloooooowwwwlllllyyyyy rebuild.  I may end up just saying "screw it" and jumping to other modes.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 07, 2016, 08:19:20 AM
THERE ARGH.   That's done.  It only took a damn hour.  Ended up doing it by not freaking caring if the HQ went down and simply being hyper aggressive as if it was still there.  And then warping it back in when it was ready.

Bloody strange mission, in the end.  At least for how I did it, it ends up being entirely about the Omnis.  Reactors + cannons, and a big damn horde of the thing.  Little buggers are entertaining to use aggressively.  It's odd, the game doesn't really hint to the player much at how exactly to go about that, despite it being an important concept.

That cannon though... opinion on THAT hasn't changed.  Once that stupid thing was stopped, the mission went back to actually being interesting though.  Not that I didn't still manage to lose some ships though. 
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on October 07, 2016, 09:05:49 AM
I agree with the cannon part, but I just spread out my ships so 2 of them wouldn't be hit, reducing the rebuild to a minimum.

I found the omni reactor + cannon combo sooner than what you seem to have, and yes being aggressive with them is fun  ;D.
It's a nice trick to have in a lot of situations because ships ain't that effective against land, and that includes enemies =).
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 07, 2016, 10:25:27 AM
Yeah, it took me awhile to realize that landing Omnis on mired land wouldn't kill them INSTANTLY like I thought it would; didn't figure that out until a certain mission kinda forced it (I forget which one).  And then it's like, oh, I can do even more stuff with these then...  cannons and reactors suddenly got extra useful.  Though I'm convinced that the Benign Emergent tech is the best of them.  That stuff is bloody strong as heck when directed to the right places.

Either way though I'd love to see a fix to that damn cannon; I actually cant tell if it's just designed badly, or if there's an actual bug there.  This developer just isn't the sort to leave something like that in there.  I mean, the thing can instakill the HQ via pure RNG and lock up your entire economy.  That's pretty bad.  It's really been my only complaint with the game so far though.

Well, that and the bizarre lack of tooltips on ships (on the panel for building them). 
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 07, 2016, 11:49:17 AM
I actually didn't have too much trouble with the cannon in Origin, I'd just split the fleet in two and stuck the destroyer in front of the HQ.

The cannons in Duty, however. Those were annoying.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 07, 2016, 12:14:40 PM
Mostly the big problem with the huge cannon is just that there's RNG involved.  Sometimes it'll hit a ship and do next to nothing to it; other times it'll hit and it's an insta-kill.  It chooses it's targets randomly too, you cant manipulate it; the one and only thing you can do is keep more than one ship from being hit with a single shot, which is very easy to do... but it doesn't help you if the thing is repeatedly taking out either your HQ or other specific important ships with one blast. 

And I see that Duty has two of the horrid things.

Just.... just why?  WHY?
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 07, 2016, 12:49:20 PM
I just beat doppelganger(yea I know I'm behind the rest of you but I don't have much time for this game at the moment)without the big nose assault ship so I have no idea what its like.
 I didn't even notice it was a tech I needed to pick up in till I basically slaughtered everything which amused me greatly.
and I'm gaining a great appreciation for the kobner (the really speedy ship with the slowing lasers on it) its incredibly awesome at kitting giant blobs of threats away from the fleet although its actual damage is a bit rubbish.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 07, 2016, 01:52:43 PM
Mostly the big problem with the huge cannon is just that there's RNG involved.  Sometimes it'll hit a ship and do next to nothing to it; other times it'll hit and it's an insta-kill.  It chooses it's targets randomly too, you cant manipulate it; the one and only thing you can do is keep more than one ship from being hit with a single shot, which is very easy to do... but it doesn't help you if the thing is repeatedly taking out either your HQ or other specific important ships with one blast. 

And I see that Duty has two of the horrid things.

Just.... just why?  WHY?
Well, once you've gotten past the cannons the mission is mostly just clean up, really.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 08, 2016, 01:33:06 AM
Well, that's Duty beaten.  I actually found that one to be a heck of a lot easier than the previous one, because of being able to use extremely aggressive tactics against those cannons.  I think they fired MAYBE twice, and then the Omnis just ate them. 

....and then the extremely abrupt ending. 
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on October 08, 2016, 01:38:02 AM
Ahah.

Yes, the ending, is a bit abrupt. Well, knowing the dev, he'll probably expand the available maps / campaign =).
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 08, 2016, 07:15:31 AM
Messed with the Simulacrum here... those can range from "easy" to "ridiculous".  It's a pretty good setup really, with all of the customization, which is good as occaisionally the randomness will do something that's very obviously stupid before you even start  (like giving you exactly two energy spots with 1 point of production each and then farting out 10 elite emitters all over the place).  The only problem is that there's things outright missing from it; you'll never see things like Mire generators there for instance.   Would be nice if these could simply be loaded into the editor for extra tweaks.   But still, it's a good mode to have.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 08, 2016, 11:34:20 AM
I just saw the patch notes and it seems that the abrupt ending you mentioned may have been a bug.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 08, 2016, 12:02:00 PM
If you mean this part:  "Fixed issue in final story mission where placing the HQ right on top of the spot where it is supposed to go towards the end of the mission would show closing dialogs. "    I'm pretty sure what that means is players opening the mission, and literally just choosing the victory location as the initial warp point for the HQ ship.  It teleports in and you instantly win, that sort of thing.  Certainly not supposed to happen, that...
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 08, 2016, 03:03:38 PM
If you mean this part:  "Fixed issue in final story mission where placing the HQ right on top of the spot where it is supposed to go towards the end of the mission would show closing dialogs. "    I'm pretty sure what that means is players opening the mission, and literally just choosing the victory location as the initial warp point for the HQ ship.  It teleports in and you instantly win, that sort of thing.  Certainly not supposed to happen, that...
is that what you did? because if so in your place id probably replay that mission out of curiosity if nothing else to see how its meant to play out.
on a side note I just got to play with the c class ship and o BOY! was it a dozy practically un killable and able to take out doppelgangers by accident.
 rams still got a place in my heart though due to its disposability since it doesn't take billions of years to make like the c class.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 08, 2016, 09:00:25 PM
No, I did the mission the normal way.  But I'm betting there's some players that thought you were actually supposed to drop it in the spot that creates the glitch, since it has the exact shape of the HQ ship with a green outline.  It's covered in Struc though, so without the glitch the ship would just explode, I assume.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 09, 2016, 02:04:55 AM
Just for the heck of it, here's a Simulacrum map that I spent some time tweaking: 

AAAFGkp/dn2SKwMFL1yAAdgAOIMAEwA9ADwAGwEFBg0DAQwFDQkBCAQDAQUDAwgBAAIFAQIDAQEBAgMOCgYPBwgEBAkJCwYAAAAAAAAAAA==


If anyone wants to give it a whirl, just copy that and then there's a button to paste it into the Simulacrum.  Then just launch.

I'd be interested to see if anyone finds it challenging.... I personally had a fairly hard time with it.  The early game got nasty.  I found it a hard map to finish quickly due to the fact that some of the emitters are pretty tough to get at.

I'm hoping that at some point maybe the dev will expand upon this thing... it's very lacking compared to the one that is in Creeper World.  Various game elements that don't appear in it and all. 

Also, it occurs to me suddenly that the campaign never teaches you about the Gem Factories. 
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: TheVampire100 on October 10, 2016, 06:54:46 PM
Mostly the big problem with the huge cannon is just that there's RNG involved.  Sometimes it'll hit a ship and do next to nothing to it; other times it'll hit and it's an insta-kill.  It chooses it's targets randomly too, you cant manipulate it; the one and only thing you can do is keep more than one ship from being hit with a single shot, which is very easy to do... but it doesn't help you if the thing is repeatedly taking out either your HQ or other specific important ships with one blast. 

And I see that Duty has two of the horrid things.

Just.... just why?  WHY?
The biggest problem with them on Duty is that they can instakill your HQ. Normally the loss of your HQ isn't that of a big problem but ont hat mission it is. You loose it, you have to restart. Looks liek I have to save scum this mission, there is no other way around. Lost during 15 minutes into the mission, destroyed one of the cannons at the start, prepared to take energy mines but suddenly the second cannon oneshotted my hq and I lost.
That's nowhere fair and the thing simply shouldn't target your HQ at all.

The lack of visiual indication where it's gonna shoot is also a problem. You know when but only if you constantly check the tiny bar next to the cannon. And who has time to permanently check it any way? I'm glad these are the only two missions who have this problem but the design of the cannons wasn't very well balanced aroudn the rest of the game.

I'm also open for any useful tips for the last mission.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 10, 2016, 07:01:20 PM
I had maybe one hit on my HQ during duty. And it was by particles, not cannon.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: TheVampire100 on October 10, 2016, 07:30:07 PM
I guess I had dumb luck then. It's like Misery said, i'ts purely RNG and you have to hope it does not hit you the worst.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 10, 2016, 07:37:26 PM
are you referring to the cannon which fires a black ball? I thought you were referring to the cannon which fires out a line a particles but I haven't little to no trouble with them.
if your referring to the black balls then I agree completely also I just got past the mire wall just to have my hq die ,sigh, I really wish that wasn't a thing in this mission its a bit obnoxious.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 10, 2016, 07:45:42 PM
Black ball cannon? Eh?

All I did for Duty was build up (rebuild the hammer when it got cannon'd) (rebuild the partially-built marauder), omni up (re-omni when some of them died), clear the cannons and stomp forth with the fleet. My HQ did not move one bit post-cannons until the area was clear.

(this was also generally my strategy for the other maps, unless I split up some units. I am not a fast CW/PF player.)
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 10, 2016, 07:57:38 PM
Black ball cannon? Eh?

All I did for Duty was build up (rebuild the hammer when it got cannon'd) (rebuild the partially-built marauder), omni up (re-omni when some of them died), clear the cannons and stomp forth with the fleet. My HQ did not move one bit post-cannons until the area was clear.

there's a cannon I've seen which fires projectiles which look like black balls they hit like a brick but they take for ever to fire don't know what the official name is for them.
but in origin there's about 4 of them spaced apart on the mire wall surrounding the planet.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 10, 2016, 08:01:47 PM
I do not remember those firing back. (also, why would your HQ even be near the planet half of the map on origin? Use your lathes or your omnis.)
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 10, 2016, 08:13:32 PM
I do not remember those firing back. (also, why would your HQ even be near the planet half of the map on origin? Use your lathes or your omnis.)
I wasn't referring to origin with my hq dying I was referring to duty I had my micro tank pretty much just for building omnis on origin.
but to get back on point yes they do fire back and like I mentioned they hit like a brick I lost quite a few ships to them without noticing granted it was because I was ignoring them but still......
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 10, 2016, 08:53:55 PM
For Duty, the trick is basically to rush the cannons.  The lower one is really easy to knock down, the upper one takes a little more work but can still be gotten at quickly.  You need to get your Omnis set up with at least reactors, and throw a huge pile of them over at that one.  Distract the gun that's near it by putting a ship (preferably a hammer) there for it to shoot at, and when that gun thing stops the recharge, send the omnis onto that island and they can take care of both the gun and the cannon quickly.    The upper cannon takes a bit more work, but if done fast enough wont get more than two shots at you.  Once those are down the rest of the mission isn't too tough.



are you referring to the cannon which fires a black ball? I thought you were referring to the cannon which fires out a line a particles but I haven't little to no trouble with them.
if your referring to the black balls then I agree completely also I just got past the mire wall just to have my hq die ,sigh, I really wish that wasn't a thing in this mission its a bit obnoxious.


Black ball?  What?
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: TheVampire100 on October 10, 2016, 11:57:09 PM
Finished it finally. You know what was worse than the Particular Railguns? The ship-fortresses. You know, these rotating ships with massive missile launchers and blasters that spam their attack once you come close, destroying everything nearby. Even if you gang all your ships up on them they still manage to beat them all. I don't even get how I managed it but I did.

Anyway, now I understand what you meant about the ending.

Finding out at the end that what you saw at the beginnign was actual the ending of the game, leaves me unsatisfied. Especially since this leaves again the player clueless about what the hug actual happened in the game and it's world. Knuckecracker manages to create the illusion of a massive story but in the end you don't get any information. And you somehow except it to get better int he next game but no, it's the same as always. They did this in every single Creeper World game, right from the very first one.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Aklyon on October 11, 2016, 12:27:18 AM
The Seloi are rather distantly in the past in CW3. Or at least they do get mentioned.
They are literally the previous civ in PF:E. Pretty sure this happened before the third game, which still doesn't actually tell us anything about the interesting civ, nor the Loki. But its at least closer than before.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 11, 2016, 12:45:35 AM
Finished it finally. You know what was worse than the Particular Railguns? The ship-fortresses. You know, these rotating ships with massive missile launchers and blasters that spam their attack once you come close, destroying everything nearby. Even if you gang all your ships up on them they still manage to beat them all. I don't even get how I managed it but I did.

Those ships are best destroyed by a Carrier.  It's possible for a Carrier to smash one up entirely on it's own.  Though that takes awhile.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: TheVampire100 on October 11, 2016, 12:46:10 AM
I've did soem research on the Steam forums and it looks like absolutely everyone is upset about the ending of the game. They also concluded like you that this game is set before CW3 (which makes sense, CW3 takes place in a world where humanity was wiped from the universe for good).

Like I said, Knucklecracker has a bi problem with building a big story base but they lack to deliver actual important information or a conclusion to the story. They build too much mysteries for possible sequels, While the games are good in themself, they could at least finally resolve the story or at least the "Loki arc" of the story and continue with something else.
We still don't know who the Loki exactly are except that tehy are an alien race that created the creeper for information collection and wiping the universe clean in the prcess. But collecting information for what purpose exactly? they combine it all into the arc but what does the arc do? What do they want with all the combined knowledge of the universe? Fidn out the purpose of life? Being gods?

I always have this unsatisfied aftertaste after their games in this is probably the worst one so far. Being a spin-off and not a direct sequel this can be excused but I hope CW4 (which they oviously are going to make lookign at how much they are holdign back fromt he story) will finally conclude the story. The gameplay itself is good enough to support the series, no reason to stretch the story so far across multiple games.

Tried that, Particulate interfere too much. The aircrafts seem to prefer particulate as targets over other stuff. It was a pure nightmare but now no more. I won't redo it and if I ever see a player-designed mission with that abnomination I will abort the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 11, 2016, 03:15:47 AM
Quite frankly I constantly get the impression that while these games HAVE a story, they were never intended to be ABOUT it.  Typically, games that fit this often have flawed stories, from what I understand.  The campaigns in both games honestly feel like very extended tutorials rather than anything telling a story.  You get some dialogue, sure, but after that it's all about teaching you the functions of the next turret/ship/mechanic.  Or in the case of Farbor, it's all about driving you crazy.

In my case I don't really care... I know what the story is (which is very rare for me) but that's strictly because A: it was confined to text boxes rather than having to wait for people to act it out at the speed of a dead frog in sludge, and B: it was short and to the damn point for once.   Past that though.... eh.  I can see the problems that people have with it and understand them, but... it just doesn't seem like it was meant to have much focus from the start.  As I keep telling people though, it's the strategy and post-campaign content that are the reasons to really "get into" these games.

Though I reiterate that I'm hoping the developer adds more to Particle Fleet's random map generator.  It's just quite lacking compared to the one in CW3.  Granted THAT game has had three iterations to grow, so I guess that makes sense sorta.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 11, 2016, 04:27:25 AM
Quite frankly I constantly get the impression that while these games HAVE a story, they were never intended to be ABOUT it.  Typically, games that fit this often have flawed stories, from what I understand.  The campaigns in both games honestly feel like very extended tutorials rather than anything telling a story.  You get some dialogue, sure, but after that it's all about teaching you the functions of the next turret/ship/mechanic.  Or in the case of Farbor, it's all about driving you crazy.

In my case I don't really care... I know what the story is (which is very rare for me) but that's strictly because A: it was confined to text boxes rather than having to wait for people to act it out at the speed of a dead frog in sludge, and B: it was short and to the damn point for once.   Past that though.... eh.  I can see the problems that people have with it and understand them, but... it just doesn't seem like it was meant to have much focus from the start.  As I keep telling people though, it's the strategy and post-campaign content that are the reasons to really "get into" these games.

Though I reiterate that I'm hoping the developer adds more to Particle Fleet's random map generator.  It's just quite lacking compared to the one in CW3.  Granted THAT game has had three iterations to grow, so I guess that makes sense sorta.
agreed that seems to be what most strategy game campaigns are built around from what I've seen but to give credit were its due the writing was actually pretty good.
also I seem to be the only person who doesn't hate those particle cannons I mostly ignored them during my last run in duty.
sure they did some damage but it was all pretty pathetic damage really but that's probably due to the rng being mentioned although that sounds like a bug to me and not intended.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: TheVampire100 on October 11, 2016, 02:24:58 PM
Quite frankly I constantly get the impression that while these games HAVE a story, they were never intended to be ABOUT it.  Typically, games that fit this often have flawed stories, from what I understand.  The campaigns in both games honestly feel like very extended tutorials rather than anything telling a story.  You get some dialogue, sure, but after that it's all about teaching you the functions of the next turret/ship/mechanic.  Or in the case of Farbor, it's all about driving you crazy.

In my case I don't really care... I know what the story is (which is very rare for me) but that's strictly because A: it was confined to text boxes rather than having to wait for people to act it out at the speed of a dead frog in sludge, and B: it was short and to the damn point for once.   Past that though.... eh.  I can see the problems that people have with it and understand them, but... it just doesn't seem like it was meant to have much focus from the start.  As I keep telling people though, it's the strategy and post-campaign content that are the reasons to really "get into" these games.

Though I reiterate that I'm hoping the developer adds more to Particle Fleet's random map generator.  It's just quite lacking compared to the one in CW3.  Granted THAT game has had three iterations to grow, so I guess that makes sense sorta.

That's the difference between you and me. While you hate big/long stories in games, I like them. I even select games simply for the story, not for the gameplay (however, that is a rare case). I think agood story improves a good gameplay a lot, it does not give you only somethign to play with, you also experience a well written "novel".. In some games I don't except much of a story actually, puuzle games for example, arcade games, but in some liek RPGs they are a key aspect of the game.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 11, 2016, 11:11:50 PM
Eh, part of the reason I don't like stories in games is actually because I read so many books.  SO freaking many.  The things litter my room.  Going to any game story is usually an exercise in inferiority by comparison... I've never, ever found one that's even close to as good as any of the books I could reach down and randomly grab.   

Though, I still used to at least follow stories in games somewhat regardless.  It's when the horrid things started trying to be freaking MOVIES (and I'm the rare sort that outright hates movies) that I just stopped caring entirely.  At least something like Particle Fleet lets me read at my own fast pace; no actors slowly going through the motions.

Also to some degree they just get REALLY cliche'd.  RPGs, for instance.  Ugh.  JRPGs specifically.... those are usually pretty freaking bad. 

Not that it matters in the end, as I don't bother with AAA games and such anyway; many of the games I do play don't even HAVE stories. 

Overall though I have a hard time seeing the appeal of story-focused games.  To be fair though I have a hard time seeing the appeal in LOTS of things.

More specifically though I have a hard time understanding the way a lot of people look at this.  For example, in some games people seem to consider it a freaking sin if the story isn't good enough, or whatever.  But then there's other games where they easily could have a lot of story stuff, yet it's considered OK that they don't.  Isaac is a prime example.  The story in that is extremely basic, mentioned only in the opening bit, and then there's just nothing else to it.  It may as well not be there.  With so many other games even in the same genre people have such a major issue with it... but Isaac gets a complete pass to the point where nobody ever complains about it.   That sort of shifting viewpoint, I find that very hard to grasp at all.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: kasnavada on October 12, 2016, 01:23:54 AM
I'm with misery on this one, but it's a matter of taste...

Game "story" are generally very simple though. I'd rather read if I want something engaging. What I look first in a game is new mechanics to understand =).
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 12, 2016, 01:58:24 AM
Yep.

Thinking about it, I think a lot of writers for games struggle to manage to fit a proper story within the framework of a game.  You have constant interruptions and structure restrictions caused by the gameplay itself, after all, which also gets things all stretched out.  And then there's the problem of fitting stuff in with the actual mechanics and all... few games manage that one.  You cant just have every single bit of the game be scripted, and it must follow certain trends that are attached to the gameplay.  Yet it's expected to take writing concepts and be completely coherent anyway.   I really don't envy writers for the jobs they must do in these games.  It sounds very frustrating.  As if the rest of development wasn't...
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 13, 2016, 06:54:38 PM
personally I like the idea of the story in a game having no narrative created by the developers and rather the players since as misery and others have put it game storeys really don't stand up to other mediums at the moment not that there incapable of doing so.
developers just need to stop being insecure and embrace the advantages of their medium rather than trying to copy others.
not implying that's the case with all of them just to clarify though.

on a side note to misery what exactly do you read? is it anything in particular or what ever random things grab your interest? I've got tons of books that I've got and are my radar I can point you in the direction of.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: Misery on October 14, 2016, 05:47:51 AM
I read a lot of horror, fantasy, sci-fi, some other stuff.  I'm not too picky when it comes to books really. 

My favorite stuff is the Discworld series.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 14, 2016, 11:34:38 AM
I read a lot of horror, fantasy, sci-fi, some other stuff.  I'm not too picky when it comes to books really. 

My favorite stuff is the Discworld series.
I don't really read horror they don't scare me and I tend to find the plots to gimmicky (unless you count dean koontz as horror) apart from that I'm not picky either asides from crime books there to formulaic for me really.

never read anything from the disk world series though since I don't have the space for it really...yea I know I don't need to read the whole series but I'm completions when it comes to series and I like to own all of the books in a series having random books from a series just annoys me in way I cant quite explain.

now id like to point you in the direction of the broken empire series which is composed of 2 trilogy's (at the moment) both of which have their strengths and their weakness but are both worth reading the story trilogy's are separate from each other although linked in interesting ways.
now even though its labelled as fantasy in genera its not actually fantasy what it actually is (in my humble opinion) is post apocalyptic science fiction that just so happens to be set in a medieval culture.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: TheVampire100 on October 15, 2016, 01:45:44 PM
I also prefer a good book over a game but that does not mean that I cannot still enjoy a good story in a video game. It's not a matter of "Either this or that", you can have and like both.

I think people look too much at black and white and don't think about the parts between.

My favourite novels are btw from Stephen King, not that it would matter anything but since everyone is trhwoing stuff out that he likes.
Title: Re: Particle Fleet: Emergence
Post by: crazyroosterman on October 16, 2016, 05:18:07 AM
I also prefer a good book over a game but that does not mean that I cannot still enjoy a good story in a video game. It's not a matter of "Either this or that", you can have and like both.

I think people look too much at black and white and don't think about the parts between.

My favourite novels are btw from Stephen King, not that it would matter anything but since everyone is trhwoing stuff out that he likes.
I can as well I just meant that developers need to take advantage of the strengths of their medium(more)

Stephen kings pretty alright although I generally prefer his books that aren't heavily supernaturally themed  although I aboustley love his short story collections.