Paid mods for skyrim

[TheVampire100]

Valve did neither CS nor DotA. They bought the rights on the games and developed them further, that's all.
They started with Half-Life and many Mods were built around that (again, from Fans, not Valve).

They are just encouraging mods into getting to full fledged games in their own and they distributed their engine as open source to make it easier.

[Misery]

Except you're wrong, it's based on HAVOK. They built another engine on top of it. What they did is somewhat impressive but that's not from the ground up at all.

Duh. http://www.keenswh.com/vrage.html

I'm not saying that it can't exist, just that it's becoming less and less common as time goes by for the reasons I state.

*sigh*

Please dont try to discredit my logic based on ONE example. It doesnt exactly help to support your arguement, that sort of nitpicking.  Particularly in a rude way (who says "duh" like that these days anyway?  I thought it had evolved/devolved into "derp" now).  Like I said: Look it up for yourself, as I'm much too lazy (and dont care enough) to go into extreme detail and make a list.   What I MEANT was, the proof is out there and easily found.  Also because of my extremely obsessive nature, if I DO go into "detail" with my explanation and reasoning, it will, I guarantee you, be at least 6 pages long.  I get a TAD obsessive with debates (so these days I try to NOT get sucked into one).  I've already gone through this particular topic on other forums, which is why, right now, I'm not caring all that much.  AKA, overloaded by hearing too much about it.   Which happens to me pretty easily. 

And really, like I said, if things continue as they are, those'll become MORE common.  The more frustrated people become with the restrictions that are likely to come, the more likely they are to start making "high level graphics" games entirely on their own, rather than submit to the jackassery of the big publishers.  And the more they do THAT, the easier it will become to do. 

Now as for myself, I personally would get a kick out of seeing the downfall of the major publishers, or some other major event, but I dont think the whole thing is going to get THAT serious.  And I already rather ignore the big guys anyway, since they rarely put out games I care about (certain design trends/ideas that I dont like are WAY too prevalent right now).  If they're going to start being bloody annoying about mods, I'll find other games that I'll likely consider to be better anyway.


The end result, to me, is basically the same:  I'm just glad I found indie gaming when I did.   Soooooooo much better. For me anyway.  Not that I dont still get into one of the "big" ones every now and then, but still.

[kasnavada]

...

*Sigh* I could write what you just said here and throw it back at you word for word.

Please dont try to discredit my logic based on ONE example. It doesnt exactly help to support your arguement, that sort of nitpicking.

Especially this one, it's what you've done by stating miner's wars, somehow if you use it it's valid, and if I do it's not. And that's kind of why I provided a few links to what amount to thousands of examples. And you provided... claims of previous discussions and boredom and a (wrong) example.

And then, personal attacks based on how I write my post & what I research.

I'm the one rude here ? At least if you want to claim that, do better.


I think the root of the misunderstanding is that what you actually seem to think as the "ground" from which devs make their app is most of the time a pretty advanced API... what I think of the "ground" is basically everything but the first "software" drivers and maybe whatever directX / openGL / basica language (java and so on) equivalent there are on console phones & PC. That's actually debatable, to tell the truth. At that level there are already advanced API & powerful tools which dev already use.

Valve did neither CS nor DotA. They bought the rights on the games and developed them further, that's all.
They started with Half-Life and many Mods were built around that (again, from Fans, not Valve).
They are just encouraging mods into getting to full fledged games in their own and they distributed their engine as open source to make it easier.

That would be exactly my point. By "starting" I don't mean that they developed the mod but that they took mods and made games out of it. The formulations I've been using may have been somewhat unclear. Also, making half-life moddable kind of started CS. Other moddable games existed, it was the right game / mod at the right time but still. It's no wonder they want to encourage that.

[Misery]

...

*Sigh* I could write what you just said here and throw it back at you word for word.

Please dont try to discredit my logic based on ONE example. It doesnt exactly help to support your arguement, that sort of nitpicking.

Especially this one, it's what you've done by stating miner's wars, somehow if you use it it's valid, and if I do it's not. And that's kind of why I provided a few links to what amount to thousands of examples. And you provided... claims of previous discussions and boredom and a (wrong) example.

And then, personal attacks based on how I write my post & what I research.

I'm the one rude here ? At least if you want to claim that, do better.

The "duh" bit was a rude and unneccesary comment, which is why I said it.... nothing more. Which is another part of WHY I dont have much interest in debating this with you (I have a VERY short fuse and am likely to lose control if I debate for too long, especially if someone or something in the debate is bothering me in whatever way).  Besides, I have a tendancy to point out stuff I consider to be rude when it appears;  fortunately, that really doesnt happen in this place for the most part.

Also... frankly, I dont give a flying fart if you dont believe my "claims" about other discussions (why in the numerous hells would I make that up? It's not as if anyone even gives a rat's ass about what I do on other forums, or IRL!  Good grief...).  Or anything else I say.  Like I said: I'm *not* listing any of that crap.  Done it before.  NOT doing it again, certainly not to "prove" what I said.  There was.... an angry exchange last time I got into this conversation with someone.  Not dealing with that again.  And the interest SERIOUSLY isnt there anymore (particularly after that incident), and what you think of that is... not my problem.

Also, I stand by what I said about "dont try to discredit based on one example". I didn't say "if I use it as an example, it's right!".  I used it as a QUICK example (meaning a quick glance at their page) of what I was trying to explain (there's a reason why I kept saying "just go look up this stuff yourself") since it's a game that's likely to actually be recognized.  Which, STILL, was *not* my overall point.  Again with the nitpicking.

Seriously, I'm *not* arguing this any more with you. I've made my point and said everything I wanted to say.   I like to prevent from getting.... unpleasant.... on this particular forum.  Not to mention that I get more and more incoherent as I get more incensed.

I've managed to go this long without any of what I call "explosions" on this forum (at least, I dont THINK I've had any here...).  I respect this place and the people here to break that record.  That being the case, I'll exit at this point, as I try to do when getting overly fiery.   Keep that in mind when responding, as I dont open a topic again (as in, dont read anything further and ignore it) once I've decided to do this.   Feel free to make of that what you will.... not my problem. 

[Draco18s]

That GTAV bug is hilarious, I've never heard of that happening before and I'm sure even Rockstar was surprised to have it happen.

No, not really.  It's because they couldn't be arsed to figure out how to use "%appdata%" and instead fell back to the standards created by windows 3.5 when you couldn't have a file name longer than 16 characters.

I mean, yeah, there's some hassle trying to figure out how to make things go where you want on Windows, Mac, and Linux.  Unity has to supply a static object for developers, but blindly forging ahead on a standard that hasn't been valid for a decade?

[kasnavada]

(...)

Advances made for the last decades in development is a subject which holds a huge interest to me and which I researched extensively. Not only that, it's also kind of required in my current job and older ones. It's also the opinion of people around me at those very jobs. That does not make it Truth in any way, but certainly does not go against it. And it also matches what my jobs have required over the years.

They you come in and state I'm wrong with:
- a wrong example.
- a refusal to explain anything.
- a claim to have done everything before so because I claim this I'm right.
- personal attacks.
- random comments about how I'm argumenting rather than arguments, which can be actually thrown back at the very post making them.
- a lengthy explanation of your personal feelings.

Maybe I missed stuff. But here all of what you've "told" me to do - aka research - proved that I'm right since I actually DID look it up over the years. Not that it's going to make it the truth in any way, but that's the opinion I'll stand by while no argument or statistics show me the opposite. I even tried to define one term which I think made confusion, at least it explains why you're thinking that your example is right.

Bye then.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

That GTAV bug is hilarious, I've never heard of that happening before and I'm sure even Rockstar was surprised to have it happen.

No, not really.  It's because they couldn't be arsed to figure out how to use "%appdata%" and instead fell back to the standards created by windows 3.5 when you couldn't have a file name longer than 16 characters.

Fair enough. I haven't looked into the issue that deeply and really, this is hardly the worst thing a AAA company has done. That was the point I was trying to get at. This is not worth crucifying Rockstar over, not even a little. Slapping them around over it? Yes. Nothing more.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

To bring us back to the topic that this was originally created for, a perspective from the Garry's Mod guy. I think he makes a lot of good points:

http://garry.tv/2015/04/24/paying-for-mods/

Quoting myself because we seem to be ignoring a paid modder's point of view.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Bye then.

Please keep it calm in here. I really don't want to have to get the mods in here to calm things down. This was a friendly discussion until things got personal.

[Draco18s]

To bring us back to the topic that this was originally created for, a perspective from the Garry's Mod guy. I think he makes a lot of good points:

http://garry.tv/2015/04/24/paying-for-mods/

Quoting myself because we seem to be ignoring a paid modder's point of view.

And what he says:

So obviously Valve and Game Devs are the biggest winners right now. That’s the wrong way around in my opinion. The modders should be getting the majority share of the revenue from this – that just seems like common sense.

It’s obvious that Valve and the game developer need to make money here too, enough to cover costs at least – but it’s the modder’s work that is making the money. I don’t know whose choice that is though, but it feels like someone is being a greedy asshole. This is something that will get better with time.

Which is basically what I said originally.

[kasnavada]

http://garry.tv/2015/04/24/paying-for-mods/

I actually saw that post earlier on and agree with most of what's said. I'm personnally not so sure about the part where it'll get better though. I hope the market does not get saturated enough by people wanting to work for scrap.

[Wingflier]

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop?just_created=true

Well, this thread wasn't hot enough yet, so I decided to throw some fuel on the flames. Almost at 100k people already, that's pretty impressive.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop?just_created=true

Well, this thread wasn't hot enough yet, so I decided to throw some fuel on the flames. Almost at 100k people already, that's pretty impressive.

*shrugs*. I figure the market will dictate whether this succeeds or not, not a random internet petition.

[Draco18s]

I also don't agree with the way the petition is phrased.

"Mods should be a free creation."

No, not really.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Not to mention that not all mods are free, so, it strikes of naivety.