Author Topic: Online Card Games Thread  (Read 15349 times)

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2017, 12:31:09 AM »
Apparently Sol Forge is being canceled and the servers are going offline forever. That's what I heard anyway.

Now in terms of Duelyst, the expansion adds a lot of powerful stuff yes, but I'm hesitant to call any of it overpowered. Grandmaster Variax is indeed really strong, but it costs 7 mana, and you can't use its connected ability until the next turn, which makes it very situational.

In general Duelyst seems to have sped up quite a bit (each expansion seems to make the game faster), which is both a good and a bad thing. Good because faster games but bad because long-term control strategies seem harder and harder to pull off. In any case, I've beaten an Abyssian after they've used Variax on many occasions simply because the 7/7 they dropped on that turn didn't do anything, and I was free to hit her face until death.

On that note I'm playing a new card game now called Eternal. It's made by the same people who created Elder Scrolls: Legends (currently my favorite), except where ESL is more of a Hearthstone clone where Eternal is more of a Magic the Gathering clone. Dire Wolf Digital (the developer) is a wonderful company, and they make fantastic games.

Eternal in particular is cool because it has a mobile app, which I've really enjoyed using. So I can just switch between PC and Tablet as needed.

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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2017, 01:04:47 AM »
Didn't know that Solforge gets closed but I looked it up and you are right, at the end of this month it's gone. That's sad, I liked the game. But it does not come to any surprise, the game wasn't really popular and they had troubles to maintain it.
I'm wondering if their other game will vanish soon too...

I may have to change my statement on Variax. Let's be honest, the card is too strong as where it stands, even if you have to wait another turn to benefit from it. However liek you said, the game got so fast, that you see it rarely in games. Aggressive decks got even more popular than they were before. And every deck runs now healing because otherwise you cannot keep up long enough to pull out your combos. It's getting really pathetic at this point how aggressive the game has become. Because of this I played a very strong defenvise deck just to go the other way as everyone else (I do this often in card games, I like unusual playstyles fromt he current meta). I thought the deck would suck really hard but I was surprised that I managed to beat 3 of 4 matches with it.
It was a Lyonar Provoke deck with Highmane (the one that adds +2 attack). The game has almost onlyProvoke creatures as well as some utility spells/minions to deal with stuff that might get troublesome. The strategy is to let the enemy run into high health provoke units (which is a trait of Lyonar anyway) until he runs out of Steam, so I can hit back with Divine Bond and damage to the face. Many minions have high health but poot attack stats, that's why I took Highmane over the other girl, so I can buff them and make them a little stronger.
Surprisingly a lot players have now problems with heavy provoker decks despite that being always a thing from the beginning. But because the game got so fast and people dropped provokers mostly, no one excepts to play mainly these.

The deck really has some strong weaknesses and I wonder why I didn't get bashed hard already. Even the one lose I got was close.

You're not the only one that praises eternal. But everytime a new card game comes out, it's the same, epople praise it like it's the new Messiah of TCGs but eventually the popularity will dwindle. I will or will not look at it but since it's still in EA I propably wait until the full release, who knows what they will change until then.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2017, 01:55:33 AM »
Well it's certainly not "the new messiah" of TCGs. I think whoever said that was exaggerating quite a bit. It's a good game, but it's probably inferior to actual Magic the Gathering in terms of depth and complexity. It's like a casual version of magic that doesn't cost thousands of dollars to play competitively. In fact, everything I've heard about Eternal, and supposedly one of the things that makes it so fantastic is that it's the most generous card game out there.

When you use the "Draft" mode, which is like Arena in HS or Duelyst, you actually get to keep all the cards you drafted...permanently, which is like holy shit. The game doesn't seem to be lacking in generosity at all. I've even heard players say that the game is so generous, they're not even sure how the developers are going to make money from it.

From what I hear it's even more generous than Elder Scrolls Legends, which I think is already incredibly generous. I've spent $10 on that game, mostly to support the developers vs. the $140 I've spent on Duelyst, and even with a fraction of the playtime, I think my ESL collection is significantly more complete than my Duelyst one. Of course Duelyst has more expansions (ESL is still technically in beta), but in ESL you can use the in-game mechanics like Solo Arena or dust farming against bots to guarantee packs and crafting material in a relatively short time. If Eternal is even more generous than this then...well holy cow.

But yes, I don't think eternal is like the savior of all card games, I think it's just a Magic the Gathering lite which is much more accessible and cheaper (understatement). Not to mention that if you want to play MTG online you have to use the MTGO client which is freaking 15 years old and god awful garbage. I guess there are some versions of MTG for Steam (Duels of the Planeswalkers) but I've always heard that these games are kind of an insult to the franchise.

Eternal, by comparison, is much more streamlined and enjoyable to play than any of the MTG clients. Usually MTG players do it in person.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2017, 06:18:17 PM »
Quote
I guess there are some versions of MTG for Steam (Duels of the Planeswalkers) but I've always heard that these games are kind of an insult to the franchise.

As someone that's been a fan of MTG for ages, I can agree with this one.  I've tried them, went "bah", and just ignored them.  Magic Online may be old, but... it's still got everything it needs.  For those of us with no other way to play it, it's good that it's there.  I've never had issues with it myself.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2017, 07:28:30 PM »
There is also Magic Duels which is a free Magic online game that is not hideous as Magic Online.
I have only played the tutotiral so far however but the game got recently a new expansion with 100 new cards and there are already 6 or 7 sets in the game.

Also I cannot find the Eternal Mobile App.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2017, 02:12:49 PM »
Solforge also gave away all cards you got in draft mode and I didn't see anyone talking about that but whatever...

Finally reached Gold Rank in Duelyst for the first time. I searched for decks online and built one as close as possible. I still need some of the core cards for this deck but I managed to find good replacements.

I found also another card game on mobile phones: Mabinogi Duels.
It's a spin off TCG of the MMORPG witht he same name. However, the game shares little with the RPG, except some characters and I believe they are only in there for the sake of recognition value. Some spells of Mabinogi are present but most cards have nothing to do with mabinogi at all. But whatever, the card game itself is what counts.
This card game does not draw inspirations of Hearthstone for a change. I'm getting tired of these card games that just want to copy the most famous card games out there.
That does not mean that Mabinogi Duels has nothing in common with other card games, it just means it does not so to 100%. It's best describes as a mix of Solforge and Magic.
The game does not use a single mana resource but multiple ones. The resources are similiar to Magics colored mana but this time they are called "Nature, gold" and other stuff. Different card categories use different types of resoruces, items use gold, wild creatures use nature, undead use souls and so on.

The game uses the same lane system as in Solforge, cards are put in one of five lanes and can only attack the enemy in the same lane (or the other player if no enemy is present). Some cards have abilities that lets them attack enemies in other lanes, like archers, but you still cannot target wich one, the ability tells you, what enemy is targeted (for example elven archers only target enemies with the most HP).
Unlike other games, there is no auto-counter (which... kind of fits in the system of Mabinogi if I think about it), your cards act only on your turn, enemy cards only on their turn, which basically means that your cards can attack the enemy without receiving damage and vice versa.
Your cards and your character have levels. At some point you can level up your character. Normally you can play one card per turn (regardless of your resources) but you once you level up, you can have two actions or three actions (level 3 is the max). Additionally every card you play after that will have level 2/3. Cards on the field won't change however. If you don't have enough ressources, you can also use your extra actions to gather more resources (instead of playing lands like in Magic). Some cards provide also additional resources (for example a shrine).

The game feaures... a deep story for a singleplayer experience, which is kind of strange given the genre this is in. But the developers of Mabinogi seem to love rich stories, so whatever. The singleplayer campaign provides you with a fixed deck and some battles are scripted (for story purposes) but as always you can simply battle other players.
For some odd reason you can buy booster packs only with gems, which is the premium currency of the game. I might be wrong with that, I just started yesterday with the game, but at least it looks like this. You get however regular rewards in form of small boosters that give you a random single card. Not that great, I know.

What I really liek about this game however is, it's a fulyl fledged TCG. It's not a CCG. You CAn tarde cards with other players. there is even an open market for that. Don't have friends or find good offers on the market? There is even a NPC that soemtimes bothers you for a trade. You can haggle with him to ask for different cards or giv him different offers until you get what you like. This propably has it's limits though, but's a good solution for peopkle, who don't want to trade with other players because they fear to get ripped off. This way you also get a grasp of what your cards might actually be worth.

Also, the music is great. I never actually paid attention to music on card games because... it was always the same. But since this is Dev Cat and they are known to put great music int heir games, they did with this game again.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 02:32:31 PM by TheVampire100 »

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2017, 05:43:51 PM »
Well, now two major gaming news sites have called Duelyst objectively better than Hearthstone.

That is QUITE a claim to make, and one that we can assume wasn't done with a profit motive, given that Blizzard is the richest PC gaming company that has ever existed, and Counterplay Games is essentially an indie developer which began with a Kickstarter.

Those two sites are PC Gamer and Rock Paper Shotgun.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/01/19/duelyst-patch-boss-battles-free-cards/

http://www.pcgamer.com/duelyst-stands-out-among-the-card-games-that-inspired-it/

That's pretty damn impressive.
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2017, 01:12:32 AM »
That's awesome. But at this point I guess no one doubts it that Duelyst is better. Hearthstone is still popular but it is also corrupted with several overpowered "Win cards" that make the entire game unfun. There are so many game breakers in Hearthstone, that I got no intention to return. Hearthstone has still it's community. However, the peopel that stay have their reasons (pro players, people that have a big collectiond and don't want to start again, people that don't even know that other card games exist).
Hearthstone is the biggest game around simply because it's Blizzard. And I see now each day the tv ad from Hearthstone. If a game appears everywhere and is talked a lot, it will of course get the most players.

I digged deeper into Mabinogi Duels. This one is very interesting. It might however not be suited for this community, I don't know, but I share my thoughts.

Wjhat I didn't realized at first is, you don't draw cards. At all. Every deck has only 12 cards and you have access to all these cards right from the beginning. That does not mean the game has no luck factor in it, but the luck factor isn't in the draw mechanic here, which is a risky approach but I like it. Since you have access to all cards at the start you can take a different approach at building your deck. In many card games you pack a lot of low level cards in the deck, so you have at least one low cost card in your first hand. Since this is not the case here, you can be more flexible int erms of what you put in your deck, you can decide what your first cards should be, what you want for the mid game, late game and so on.
The big breaker in your combos are of course the costs and the number of actions you can take. You get one of each resource at the start of your turn and you can spend actions to get one random resource, you can also sacrifice hand cards to get a resource of the same color.
Eventually you will run out of hand cards, 12 cards aren't that much. You can revive your grave (discarded/destroyed cards) with any action. This sacrifices some HP (according to the number of cards in the grave) but you will get every card in the grave back on your hand. This has however a penality, each revived card costs now one resource more than before.
Reviving cannot kill you, so if you have only 1 Hp left you can still get your cards back in hope of turning the game.

PvP in this game comes in two ways, the most common is PvE actually. The ranked mode in Mabinogi Duels works differently as other games, instead of one big leagure for everyone to climb, there are several arenas for different groups of players (new players, experienced players and so on) and instead of reseting each month, they reset after several days, the smalles one even after a few hours. That way you get faster your rewards and can try another time if you failed. Attending arenas costs gold but since you get gold with each match, you get that back quickly. However, there is a limit on how many matches you can play at each arena. For wins you get points (that define your rank at the end), win streaks get more points but are capped (depending on the arena).
Rewards vary from gold, to gems, to new boosters, depending ony our rank and the arena. I got two boosters of the older sets (5 new cards each) and 2 miniboosters of the newest set (1 card per booster) on the newbie arena rank 3. I also got 7 gems (which isn't much) and 755 gold. And tickets. I... still don't know what these are used for.
Arena works that way, that you register your deck and other players can get matched to it at any time, you don't play directly against them, the computer plays. That way the game removes long waiting times entirely, you just wait a few seconds for the opponent deck to load.
I'm not sure if loosing while the computer controls the deck does count but I think not. only the matches that you directly play count into your rank.

There is also a traditional PVP arena where you can directly fight opponents just like in other card games. This one is closed however until you reach level 9 (I've reached level 5 so far).
anyway, the pve mode is surprisingly fun and the AI does not play dumb (like in Duelyst, ugh, the Ai there is so frustratingly stupid).
Oh, a draft mode is also int here. I... don't know however if this is pvp or pve, I haven't tried yet.

Anyway, Mabinogi Duels tries really hard to make the game stand out from other card games. Maybe too hard? I really like the ideas but liek I said, this might not suit everyone.
Here's a link to the game rules anyway: http://devcat.nexon.com/duel/us/rule
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nexon.devcat.mabinogiduel.global&hl=de
iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/mabinogi-duel/id1033398935?mt=8

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2017, 07:17:36 AM »
To be entirely fair, it isn't at all difficult to be better than Hearthstone mechanically.
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2017, 01:42:15 PM »
But I don't care. The game is so unfun to play, that I cannot bother to dig deeper in the mechanics.

Offline Misery

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2017, 07:43:22 PM »
I think what he means is "such and such game is objectively better" doesnt necessarily mean all that much here, when it comes to mechanics, since Hearthstone really ended up going for the super-simple method.  It's not at all hard to get a game to be mechanically better.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2017, 02:29:11 AM »
Right. Hearthstone went with the flashy visuals and neat sound effects to stay entertaining, but for anyone remotely serious about competitive play, it gets boring relatively fast due to it's lack of interesting mechanics and wonky balance. It's definitely a fun casual game though.

I prefer Shadow Era for more serious play, but even that can be played casually. It's just not as pretty as Hearthstone.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2017, 03:22:18 AM »
I completely agree with you guys about Hearthstone (oversimplified mechanics, too luck-based, primarily casual game).

However, it is overwhelmingly the most popular online card game, both casually and competitively, and its rabid fanbase would rip your head from your shoulders and beat you with it if you were to claim that its mechanics were easily overcome.

In this way it's not so different from League of Legends, which is essentially the MOBA equivalent. LoL is definitely the most popular of the bunch, and the most simple/casual, but do not say that to the playerbase.

Just the fact that these big gaming news sites would come out and say this knowing how much of their fanbase might react, or that they would stop collectively sucking Blizzard's giant e-peen for even 5 seconds is impressive.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2017, 05:12:57 AM »
Yeah, pretty much.

What's always bugged me about Hearthstone is that the game seemed so much like it had tons of potential to it.  Like it could really expand into something awesome.  Which is why I'd been so excited by it originally.

But... in the end, that's all it was.  Potential.  They never WENT anywhere with that.  They could have, but they didn't, in the interest of securing the easy money.  It's a real shame.

Since then I have had a real hard time getting into this sort of thing.  Though, some of that is just my anti-social nature... I typically just dont want to deal with actual people most of the time, and I REALLY dont want to have to wait for them to take their turn.  And unfortunately we're still in an age where AI is basically braindead.

Closest I come to this sort of thing nowadays is Sentinels of the Multiverse, on Steam.  If you've not seen it, it's a superhero themed game, with a team of heroes working against one supervillain.  The big thing about it though for me is that while it plays like a true CCG, it's not a competitive game, and can even be played solo, and even with multiple players it's a PvE sort of thing, as players only control the hero decks.  The villain deck (and environment deck) runs on it's own, and has no need for actual AI.

And I absolutely love it.  It's just the sort of experience I'd been looking for but without the massive hassle of dealing with other players.  It has alot of depth to it and there's TONS of content, though getting ALL of it is expensive (like the physical version it's bundled into groups of expansions).  So much replay value though.  Switching out even a single hero from one game to the next can change the whole thing up.  I"m very impressed at it.  Complexity is good, it's not hard to learn the basics but the difficulty can get very high, and certain heroes are stupidly hard to use (like Absolute Zero, who at first glance seems entirely dedicated towards shoving exploding fireballs up his own nose; I know in theory how he's supposed to work but it always goes horribly wrong).

....ANd I dont have to wait for anyone to sit there and slowly think about what they're doing,   That's great.

Seems to be a very popular game, too, as geeky card games and such go.  I've even seen cosplays from it.   I *might* try to see if I can get friends to try it, because that could get hilarious, but they'd have to stop playing Dark Souls, Resident Evil, or JRPG Of THe Month for five damn minutes first.

...Seriously, Dark Souls.  I'm so tired of it at this point.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2017, 07:45:21 AM »
...Seriously, Dark Souls.  I'm so tired of it at this point.
Funny, I don't know of anyone who still plays even Dark Souls 3, aside from myself, because I still haven't finished it. But I'm rarely in Windows these days so it sees very little play.

But I recognize the feeling. Was the same for me when Skyrim was released, and Fallout 3, and Fallout 4...and basically any big, overrated AAA boredom-simulator recently.
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