Author Topic: Online Card Games Thread  (Read 4888 times)

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2016, 05:52:18 AM »
We were discussing card game models recently, and whether or not the developers intentionally made bad cards.

Well, I'm sorry to say that I've got the smoking gun right here.

Currently in Hearthstone, the Priest is the worst class in the game and in the worst place it's ever been. Players were waiting for this new expansion, One Night in Bangcock or whatever, to give Priest the cards it needed to become competitive again. Instead, they revealed what some are calling the worst card in the game (Purify), and many players took this as an insult, and a total disconnect from what the community wants.

Dozens of threads were made on this topic, and the most popular Hearthstone streamer, Kripp, created a 15 minute video addressing this card. He basically slams Blizzard for the entire 15 minutes, essentially calling them imbeciles and liars (before the expansion details were released, they promised to fix Priest with the new cards). It's a roast.

In response, Blizzard creates a video in which their lead developer, Ben Brode, attempts to explain why they have intentionally put this terrible card in the game for an already terrible class. The results are cringeworthy. The guy spends 6 minutes making an utter ass of himself. It's difficult to concede that he even believes half the things he's saying to try and justify the card.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 05:56:25 AM by Wingflier »
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2016, 09:58:34 AM »
That response video is really weird, did he actually say they made a "bad card" intentionally because losing with a bad card with the worst class in the game is fun to him? Since when is losing fun?
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2016, 10:13:23 AM »
That response video is really weird, did he actually say they made a "bad card" intentionally because losing with a bad card with the worst class in the game is fun to him? Since when is losing fun?
Since Dwarf Fortress.
I haven't seen the videos, will respond to it once I've done so.

I haven't played the new expansion nor have I seen the new card, so I cannot even say what it does. I only know about the rage because Nerf Now mentioned it in one comic. But even Jo seems to missed it according to the comic.

Offline Misery

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2016, 11:08:56 AM »
That response video is really weird, did he actually say they made a "bad card" intentionally because losing with a bad card with the worst class in the game is fun to him? Since when is losing fun?
Since Dwarf Fortress.

Aye, pretty much the DF argument.

Though considering the sorts of games I play, I could also list entire genres that answer that same question.

Wether or not it fits CARD games though is a whole other matter. 

I had a brief look at the videos myself, and realized something:  It's been so long since I've played HS that I frankly haven't the foggiest damn clue what they're talking about half the time. 

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2016, 12:01:16 PM »
That response video is really weird, did he actually say they made a "bad card" intentionally because losing with a bad card with the worst class in the game is fun to him? Since when is losing fun?
Since Dwarf Fortress.

But DF is not a competitive multiplayer game ;) If it were it'd have a metacritic score of -9000 because of RNG
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2016, 02:04:47 PM »
It was a joke anyway, so don't take it seriously.
The thing is, in card games everyone wants to win and this in all games. but someone has always to loose, that's the thing. And the looser will always feel that it was somehow unfair for him.

Anyway, I watched the two videos. The "justification" of the developer is bullshit at its best. he literally says int he first minute "We don't want to make every card good/viable" and then the rest of the video is just explaining why it's good to have  a bad card.
As far as I've understood what he said, he meant that soem cards need to be bad so some players may find interesting ways to play it. Uh... what?
So you just hope your players will find eventually  agood use for a card that you ADMITTED was designed terribly bad? You except ypur customers to give a bad card a reason to exist because you are too lazy to create a proper card for this class? Ouch.

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2016, 03:11:16 PM »
It was a joke anyway, so don't take it seriously.
The thing is, in card games everyone wants to win and this in all games. but someone has always to loose, that's the thing. And the looser will always feel that it was somehow unfair for him.

Anyway, I watched the two videos. The "justification" of the developer is bullshit at its best. he literally says int he first minute "We don't want to make every card good/viable" and then the rest of the video is just explaining why it's good to have  a bad card.
As far as I've understood what he said, he meant that soem cards need to be bad so some players may find interesting ways to play it. Uh... what?
So you just hope your players will find eventually  agood use for a card that you ADMITTED was designed terribly bad? You except ypur customers to give a bad card a reason to exist because you are too lazy to create a proper card for this class? Ouch.
this doesn't surprise me at all considering how in response to the out cry to war song commander getting nerf sledgehammered was that ,new players think its a bad card, or at least something as equally as stupid as that.

now as much as I loving shitting on hearthstone I think its time to drag the train and get railed again so I'm going to put a link up to a game I used to play fairly causally but that I think was rather interesting called Infinity Wars http://store.steampowered.com/app/257730/ I don't remember very much about it asides from the fact that I was lane based with 2 lanes and 3 support slots for each player.
 in those slots you started out with 3 bodies of your choosing they cant attack unless you send them down to one of the fighting lanes their passives still count and you can still activate their ability's if they have  any.
they also had a thing were they'd have about 5 decks that got changed every so often were you could use these regardless of what you have which was pretty great for learning or if you didn't have much time for it like I did.
c.r

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2016, 08:55:08 AM »
Okay, two things. First about Hearthstone and its new expansion. I played the first mission (the free one) which was probably some of the weirdest matches I've ever seen. You roleplay as one big magician and have to defeat a demon who interrupts your party. The big thing is, your deck his literally zero minions, only magic cards. oh, the opponent starts also out with 30 armor (in fact, you do too). It was very weird to play and unlike everything I've ever seen (honestly, currently you see C'thun decks only, so there is no surprise in that). After I understood how the deck works, I could win the match.
You get two cards for that mission. A 2/2 minion that costs 1 mana. That's all, he does nothing, he is probably the most bland and boring minion that there is to exist. Since he is free, he will probably be good for new players since he can be summoned in the first turn, but with no effects I doubt more experencied players will make good use of him.
The other card however is more interesting. Firelands Portal. It costs 7 and deals 5 damage to a minion or player of choice, but you also get a free 5 cost minion on the field. It's a mage card of course and I except it to see in many mage decks.

I haven't played the second mission because I have to grind gold first. I will never pay real money for this scammy game.
However, you can see the cards in the second mission here: http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/one-night-in-karazhan/the-parlor



Okay, the other thing I want to mention is that Chronicle has now daily login rewards. It's the same system as in Freemium games, log in each day and get improved rewards with each day. For the first day you get a free booster pack that's at least worth to get, you get also more on the way. After 18 days you get a free random ruby card. As a reminder, Chronicles rarities are from lowest to highest emerald, saphire, ruby, diamond. Since you don't know what ruby card you get, 18 days seems a lot. Also, if you skip one day and log in at the third, you won't start with the booster pack instead (as far as I've understood the mechanic) instead you get at day 3 your second reward.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2016, 02:33:29 PM »
Just got a mail. It looks like Duelyst finally gets its first expansion. And about damn time. The expansion adds new 105 cards to the game. For 50$ you can pre-purchase the expansion, get an exclusive card back and 50 booster packs. That deal may be fair (price wise) but it's still a lot of money so I won't buy nor do I encourage/suggest anyone to do it. Unless of course you are all crazy about the game and think it's worth the money.
This will hopefully finally fix my main isse with the game: it has no varity at all. Since the game is still very young, there aren't many cards and after 10 matches you have basically seen most of them. And after 50 matches you will notice that you see the same cards over and over, teh sam etactics over and over, not much of varity. 105 new carda are a lot and will definitely fix this problem.

If you have subscribed to the newsletter, you get the same mail and can see a preview of some cards that are included int he new set.

Also, the new set will include the all new Battle Doge. When you open the mail you will see what I mean.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2016, 05:52:14 PM »
It looks like Pox Nora is getting a PS4 release along a brand new client. That's right, after 10 years we finally get a new client. That's about time if you ask me. The current client works but it does not work good. It's sometimes laggy, buggy, the UI is not userfrienldy and you cannot get access to the shop or the deck manager like in other games. If you want to make tiny changes to your deck, forge a new card or buy a pack you always have to open a browser and open the website. And the website acts also slow as hell, loading  a single rune for details takes several seconds. That's not a good game where you can customize cards for your deck (selecting abilities).
However, they will finally integrate all this in the new client when it comes out.
The graphics and effects don't get an update but that's okay, the game looks fine the way it is, a little outdated but the game is ten years old and there are so many runes in the game it would take ages to change every single one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxg4kLSl8jo

The trailer states summer 2016 (which would be actually now) but they stated somewhere, but I cannot rmeember where, it will be pushed back to Q4 this year. I really hoped it would be sooner because that's what the game needs. But I'm happy that they finally make the refinements the game needs so hard. It's a really cool game with a good reward system but the terrible client turns many people off.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2016, 06:55:23 PM »
Yeah the Pox Nora client is definitely one the biggest reasons I'm not playing it. That thing was created when I was practically a kid. It's older than molasses.

Pox Nora definitely seems interesting to me, though it's certainly a bit daunting with 1600+ cards. I just feel like the entry barrier is INSANE at that point, which is one of the reasons I'm glad I'm getting into Duelyst early, because it means I'll be able to keep up with all the new cards.

Speaking of which, the new expansion is coming out in a few days. So far, the cards which have been revealed just seem awesome. The battle pets mechanic in particular is bad ass, and I think many of the new cards are going to breathe new life into some of the less powerful classes.

I'm very very excited.

Also, the game was released on Steam today, for anybody who wants to play!
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2016, 07:36:02 PM »
Getting into Pox Nora is hard as newcomer. Even as veteran or old player you will get problems coming back because Desert Owl added a lot of new cards to the game and rebalanced the old ones (Zombies play entirely different now to what they did 5 years ago). But these changes are, so strange it may sound, for the better. the game feels a lot more balanced as it did before the owner change. In terms of both rewards and card balance. A lot of the older cards that were terrible have been improved. i won't say that every card is viable because that's hard with over 1000 cards. But the cards are balanced were they stand and even a seemingly terible card can be used in some cases.
Rewards are generous, I said this more then often enough, you can get tons of gold each day just from playing against the AI. Quests can be solved both for PVP matches and AI matches (some not because they directly state you have to play/win a pvp match but these are a minority).
If you play against other players, you get experience tokens (used to level up cards) if you play AI matches you get free cards from the faction you played in that match. if you played an Ironfist Stronghold deck, you will get an Ironfist Stronghold card. this system works perfecly fine, you play with your favourite faction and get rewarded with more cards for that faction.
Liek many other games of this type you can now also destroy cards and get shards for it, then use these shards to buy new cards you need. This makes building your dream deck very easy. In the recent week I imrpoved my Zombie deck a lot.

However, there still stands the point that new players will literally have no clue about the game. There is a detailed, playable tutorial that helps a lot but this does not help to consider what cards are good in what deck. For that reason I point to the forums of the game. I asked to improve my zombie deck and got some very useful tips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxg4kLSl8jo
These tips helped me to remove terrible cards from my deck and select the right cards to put into it, they also gave me tips how to properly play the zombies.
There are multiple threads that adress decks of different themes and give example how to build these decks. I want toshow this general deck building guide, it does not exactly state what cards are good but it adresses the major aspects that every deck shoudl have.

http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/basic-battlegroup-guidelines.99/

It gives detailed information what types of different champions you need, what kinds of spells you should put into your deck and what counters you always need for your deck.
Besides that it would also be a good idea to check the 20 training decks out that the game offers. You can buy them for a minor amount of gold (and each week soem of them are free). They give you a good idea what types of card you need for that deck theme (for example a paladin oriented deck) and help you to test out the synergies of the cards.

Besides that tehre will always be an barrier. Old card games will have this problems because there are so many cards in them and it is not possible to learn them all in a short amount of time nor to understand which of them are good or bad.
If I look now at Yugioh, a card game I loved in the past, I can only shake my head. the game has chosen the the path to speed up things. The game gets faster with every expansion, I remember the days when it was a miracle if you could play a special summoned monster in one of your turns, now people pull this of int heir first turn and every turn after that. it's gotten so easy to summon a very powerful monster. And with the new pendulum system it's getting even more rodoculous. You can summon an unlimited amoutn of mosnters on your turn with the new pendulum system as long as you fulfill the requirements (which are easy to fulfill).

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2016, 07:47:35 PM »
I want to check out Pox Nora but I'm just afraid that with all the craziness about having to do things in your browser I'll lose my mind. I mean I guess I could just do the quests every day until the new client comes out and solves that, I'm just not sure if it would be worth it.
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2016, 08:00:10 PM »
My advice would be, wait. You can play your daily matches and commulate gold for the release of the new client but honestly I would wait. The only reason I'm playing is because I'm used to it already. It's still annoying but I can live with it. But its not comfortable at all and waiting 4 months isn't so long. You still can play Duelyst until then, the games are very similiar in terms of gameplay and with the new expansion there will be plenty of stuff to try out.
If you want to collect money until the client release, play dailies and use the trainign decks. You can buy them in the current game client with no problem (they cost 1000 gold each) and since you cannot modify them you never ever have to use the website. ┬┤The training decks are good enough for daily matches, soem of them are even good enough to play ranked (but i wouldn't advice that except you really want the 1000 gold for the first rank).

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Online Card Games Thread
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2016, 08:44:50 PM »
How do I get the 1000 gold to buy the training deck? I might do just the dailies like you said. Pox Nora appeals to me and the client update might make it worth getting into again.

What faction do you think I would enjoy?

I generally like to play control in card games. I enjoy taking it to the lategame, playing huge minions, stealing my opponent's characters, things like that.
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