Author Topic: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen  (Read 14038 times)

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2015, 10:11:11 am »
So I've reached the throne a few times by now. At least three of those times, I ran out of ammo during the fight. One time I killed it, then proceeded to run into a stray projectile and die.

And Steroids is all I play now. Having to go click-click-click-click-click with the revolver as any other character always annoyed me, so having a full-auto-everything passive from the get-go was a godsent to me. Also, double the firepower.

So, going BackMuscle-RecycleGlang-ThroneButt-EagleEyes-ScarierFace with two Assault Rifles, Miniguns or Smart Rifles...is still inferior to taking two laser weapons and slapping LaserBrain on, but way more fun. Infinite ammo!
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Offline madcow

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2015, 01:08:02 pm »
How close is this game to the 1.0 release?  It sounds fun, but I'll be honest I have no desire to get into it while it's early access. I would prefer the full product.

Offline Misery

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2015, 09:32:11 pm »
How close is this game to the 1.0 release?  It sounds fun, but I'll be honest I have no desire to get into it while it's early access. I would prefer the full product.

Right now?  This is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more polished and such than most (nearly all) games are when they have their initial releases.

I've been looking at this not as a normal "early access" game, but more like how Minecraft has been since release:  The game is clearly there, everything is done, but the developers keep routinely adding things ANYWAY. 

But how far is it till actual, "official" release?  Nobody has a clue.  But likely awhile off.  Vlambeer has gotten very ambitious with this game.  Honestly, they could halt development right this very second, and release the game, and nobody would ever complain about it or at all think it wasnt finished... but no, they want to keep adding stuff, and some of their ideas sound very interesting (shops!).

If you're interested, I strongly suggest watching some Youtube videos of the game.  There's tons of them.  They give a really good sense of what the game is like in it's current state.


So I've reached the throne a few times by now. At least three of those times, I ran out of ammo during the fight. One time I killed it, then proceeded to run into a stray projectile and die.

And Steroids is all I play now. Having to go click-click-click-click-click with the revolver as any other character always annoyed me, so having a full-auto-everything passive from the get-go was a godsent to me. Also, double the firepower.

So, going BackMuscle-RecycleGlang-ThroneButt-EagleEyes-ScarierFace with two Assault Rifles, Miniguns or Smart Rifles...is still inferior to taking two laser weapons and slapping LaserBrain on, but way more fun. Infinite ammo!

Best way to keep ammo high during the Throne fight:  Plutonium Hunger.  Seriously, that's all you need at all.  Rabbit Paw helps this work, but is not necessary.  All you need is for the Throne to fire the huge green orbs.  They frequently drop ammo or health when they burst, or if you cancel them with melee.  Either way.... Plutonium Hunger means you can very easily get these dropped items.

The absolute fastest way to kill the Throne though (or absolutely anything else in the game): Use Plant, get Throne Butt, get Scarier Face, hit boss (or whatever) with Plant's active ability... suddenly, the Throne, which has a base HP of 2000, suddenly has an EFFECTIVE HP of about 800.  Right around there anyway, my math isnt perfect.  Scarier Face lowers the HP of every enemy ever, even bosses, and Plant's enhanced active automatically kills anything that touches it that has 50% or less HP.   Try doing this against Big Dog and watch him go down in like 3 seconds, hah.

As for Steroids, yeah, he's pretty fun, isnt he?  Not too fond of his accuracy problem though...

Usually I just pick random when selecting characters though (except for daily runs).

Offline topper

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2015, 08:49:09 pm »
Wow, this game is awesome! Even better than I was hoping from videos and hearing from you guys.

Bullet hell games are not usually my thing, but I think the devs are really onto something good here.

Offline Zebeast46

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2015, 12:04:36 pm »
Is really that good? I do not know if I should buy it or not.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2015, 02:19:14 am »
Is really that good? I do not know if I should buy it or not.

No, it's better than that good.

It's one of those where the more you learn about it as you play, the better it gets. 

Tons of replay value too... I've put about 130 hours into it myself.  It's one of those very rare games that I just dont tire of and constantly come back to, like Minecraft.

If you're easily frustrated though, this one might not be for you.  Learning curve can be brutal, and you're going to lose *often*. 

Offline madcow

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2015, 09:57:07 am »
How would you compare it to Binding of Isaac? I really love that game, so I'm curious how this one is similar and how it's different gameplay wise (don't need to go into the theme/art style stuff as that's fairly obvious).

Offline Misery

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2015, 09:05:26 pm »
How would you compare it to Binding of Isaac? I really love that game, so I'm curious how this one is similar and how it's different gameplay wise (don't need to go into the theme/art style stuff as that's fairly obvious).

Hm, let's see....

1.  This is faster than Isaac; Isaac has a... more leisurely pace in comparison, and there's various non-exploding things that you stop to do in Isaac, such as searching the level for secrets, or going to the shop/arcade... Nuclear Throne doesnt have those "stop" moments.  Oh, you might very briefly search over the level to make sure you didn't forget to grab a chest or something if you're as forgetful as I am, but that takes like 5 seconds, and then on you go, and the very moment you step out of that portal in the next level, the chaos begins.

2.  Both games are extremely random, but you have alot more control over your build in Throne (not counting tricks like Arcade or D6 abuse in Isaac or things like that).   Isacc has about 20 gazillion different items... but your character build is going to be hugely determined by the RNG.  You go into a level, there might be one item there and that's it, and... no other real choices.  Sometimes there's a "pick it up or not" choice to make, but that's about it.  Isaac is more about just having these loopy builds sort of "show up", and then the zaniness of going forward with them.  For Nuclear Throne, a huge part of the game is actually making these choices.  When you level up for instance, between levels you'll get a screen that allows you to choose a new mutation.  It randomly selects 4 of them, and you then pick from one of those.  Making the correct choice is important... you really have to think about this.  The right choice can help you out a ton, as these have major effects... the wrong choice can make you dead.  Yet the wrong choice in one run might be the perfect choice for the next.  More frequent though are the guns;  the game is going to fart these at you pretty often, and knowing what to pick up and what not to is often not so easy.  You have to consider the current level, current stocks of ammo, what weapons you already have, what mutations you already have... and this'll probably happen a few times per level.  I rather like this aspect of the game, as while I love Isaac the usual lack of choice can be a bit uninteresting.   Dont expect as MANY items as in Isaac though; dont get me wrong, there's alot of content here, but there isnt like 500 gazillion THINGS in it like with Isaac.

3. This one is harder.  My core problem with Isaac:  The difficulty maxes out WAY too early.  It's why you see players like NorthernLion do his gazillions of videos of the game.... and never, ever, EVER lose.  The game just isnt hard enough to beat a knowledgeable player even once.  I already hit that point with it myself, for Rebirth, it didn't take long.  That doesnt really happen with Throne.... even an expert player could still die at any time.  The higher speed of the game, and the MUCH higher lethality of basically everything (you can take LOTS of hits in Isaac without dying, you cant even come close to doing that here) means that even for an expert, dying early can still happen.   Even I will sometimes have really damn stupid deaths in the very first area, because derp.  Of course, on the flip side, some players will find the game TOO hard.  In this game, you're going to die..... alot.  Over and over and over.  This is not a game to play if you get frustrated by such things easily.

4. This is alot shorter.  With my own personal playstyle, a full run of Isaac (as in, including the Cathedral or Sheol or whatever) takes me a little over an hour.  A full run of Nuclear Throne, from the beginning of the game, to the end of the second phase of the Throne fight, takes maybe 25 minutes.  Again though, part of it depends on just how you're doing things, but yeah, a run through in this is more comparable to the time it takes to make a full run at a typical shmup of some sort.


All in all though, the only real way to get a handle on how different they are is to either play it yourself, or watch it enough.  There's no demo for the game, or I'd suggest that, so instead, Youtube is the best bet.  If you wanna see good gameplay of it, look for a Youtuber by the name of SleepCycles.  He does extremely frequent videos of Throne, and lately has been also making vids for Isaac: Rebirth as well.  His stuff is a great way to see the game in action.  He's skilled enough that he'll defeat the Throne itself decently often, so you can see some of the later content too. 

Offline Misery

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2015, 07:53:55 am »
Okay so it took me bloody forever, but I finally put up a video of a "mostly melee" run through the game.

This one isnt the shovel though, but instead the sledgehammer, which is harder to use (very slow and 1/3rd the swing arc of the shovel).  Pulled out a secondary weapon every now and then as a backup when necessary.  Particularly against the 2 special post-Throne bosses, who would have taken 5 billion years to take down with just the hammer, which isnt exactly meant to be a good weapon for looping.

This video goes all the way through both forms of the Throne (both done entirely with just the hammer), and through the 2 current loop-specific bosses, Mama Ballguy (hard to forget that name) and, uhhhh, Big Horrible Crystal Thing.  I ended up dying in the looped Labs to.... a damn assassin.  I was like... really?  That was an argh moment.   Also got to show off the Lightning Cannon and the new Plasma Minigun.  Also notable is that I didn't have Scarier Face and wasnt using Plant.  Used Robot.

I have a video of the entire run here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-7Rw-PYE8

It's a little long, as despite my speed once I get going, I tend to take things slowly, particularly when it comes to making decisions;  if I stop and seem to just stand still for a time, I'm probably trying to decide on something.  Or drinking water.

Anyway, I've no idea if anyone's going to watch the thing at all, but it's up there if anyone should care.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2015, 10:01:58 am »
I have a video of the entire run here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-7Rw-PYE8
That was awesome, thank you :)

Tells me that:
1) Awesome game, as mentioned above.
2) Waaaaay out of my league reflexes-wise ;)

My favorite part of the video is probably from 5:03 to 5:33 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-7Rw-PYE8#t=303 ).  It's not the craziest part by far, but since there's so little cover (or at least usage of cover) compared to the rest of the run it very much has that "one dude in white karate gi kicking the crap out of a hundred guys in black karate gi's without getting a scratch" vibe.  Especially since the enemies have guns and the one guy does not.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2015, 11:06:02 am »

My favorite part of the video is probably from 5:03 to 5:33 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-7Rw-PYE8#t=303 ).  It's not the craziest part by far, but since there's so little cover (or at least usage of cover) compared to the rest of the run it very much has that "one dude in white karate gi kicking the crap out of a hundred guys in black karate gi's without getting a scratch" vibe.  Especially since the enemies have guns and the one guy does not.

Hah, yeah, that's pretty much the feeling I get when playing it;  it's part of why I like the melee weapons so much.  Though there are much better melee weapons than that one later in the game, I just didn't grab any of them that time. 

Or at least, that's the feeling I get until I do something stupid like die by stepping on a rat.  I cant even count the number of times I've done that.  Heck, that description just SOUNDS pathetic, you dont see the karate guys do that one very often.  Though it's those godforsaken BIRDS that are the worst.  It's always birds for me, in every game ever.  I dont know why. 

As the reflexes aspect goes, hmm, it's not as tough on that as it might look; needless to say some of that is dependent on the RNG, as every now and then it'll spit out a particularly zany level, even in the first area, but usually the crazy guns and mutations can allow you to make up for it pretty well.  Not to mention that most players dont just hit things with a hammer the entire game.  I passed up alot of pretty good weapons in that since I'd wanted a melee-focused run.  The scrapyard area is usually the first real difficulty gate area that new players run into.  Again, I blame the birds.  For everything.  Even if I die to a rat it's their fault somehow.


Still some balance issues for them to work out as they go further along with development though, the palace area in particular is still a bit of a mess.  Particularly those green "burst" guys; if you're in an open area and DONT have a melee weapon (and arent playing as Crystal), that attack is undodgeable.  And even with a melee weapon you have to time the swing perfectly or you get blasted anyway.   It can be REALLY irritating.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2015, 11:27:48 am »
Though it's those godforsaken BIRDS that are the worst.  It's always birds for me, in every game ever.  I dont know why.
EAGLES!!!

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Offline Misery

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2015, 01:27:16 am »
Yyyyyyyyep.

I havent forgotten the Eagles. 

I give the word capitalization as a proper name, because that's just how bloody annoying they were. 

Like the Ninja Gaiden birds combined with flying Medusa heads.

Offline Zebeast46

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2015, 10:00:17 pm »
I finally got this game and after 2.5 hours I can safely say I am enjoying it alot. My favorite character is probably chicken who makes you feel like a badass and is in my opinion quite overpowered, my second favorite is rebel, I normally ignore her ability to spawn minions but her healing when going through portals is quite good. One thing I noticed though was the fact that horror's radiation beam thing is so underpowered and not to mention it lowers your rads, so I found horror to be pretty useless.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Nuclear Throne, the coolest Bullet Hell/Roguelike I've ever seen
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2015, 04:06:16 am »
I finally got this game and after 2.5 hours I can safely say I am enjoying it alot. My favorite character is probably chicken who makes you feel like a badass and is in my opinion quite overpowered, my second favorite is rebel, I normally ignore her ability to spawn minions but her healing when going through portals is quite good. One thing I noticed though was the fact that horror's radiation beam thing is so underpowered and not to mention it lowers your rads, so I found horror to be pretty useless.

It's worth making use of Rebel's minion ability; she's dramatically less powerful when NOT using it.  A group of allies can devastate entire groups of foes very quickly, particularly if you can keep them going for awhile (summoning another when there's already some out heals the ones already on the screen).   In addition, allies drop 5 rads when they finally die either to enemies or the opening of the stage portal, and have a 10% chance of dropping a pickup as well.  It gets even more ridiculous with her Throne Butt, which is excellent.   And then the ridiculousness goes even further if you get far enough to get one of her ultra mutations (you select from one of two of these when you hit level 10, which is the max level).  It's important to know when to summon and when not to though.


As for Horror, the beam is meant to help you kill things MUCH faster when it's necessary, particularly as you can fire it WHILE firing your weapons.  If the beams kill an enemy, the enemy will drop all of the rads that you threw at them with the beam; so you'll get them all back.  In addition, they can destroy projectiles, charge proto statues, and enemies like the Shielder.... one of the most aggravating enemies in the game.... cannot reflect or block them.  It's a very versatile ability that rewards precision, and extremely useful once you get the hang of knowing WHEN to use it.  After all, all them rads aint useful whatsoever if you're dead.