Author Topic: Moba balance comparison, please comment  (Read 102571 times)

Offline Misery

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #360 on: February 11, 2014, 09:29:50 AM »

 
Also you seem to be having a LOT of bad luck with matchmaking :P I rarely ever get leavers, even in bad games.

This.

I hardly ever see that sort either, and I mean for the genre as a whole, not just this game.   And I guarantee I'm at quite a bit lower level than anyone else here, likely, so where I'm at I'm more likely to see leavers and asshats than higher rank players are.  Or at least, that's how it goes in most of these games.   The most bad luck I've had is in Dota 2, and by that I mean it has been MARGINALLY worse than the others.  They're all pretty much the same about it.

But I'll see how it goes with this game specifically later.  If Comcast has one of it's better days, AKA, one where it's not COMPLETELY insane, I think I might be able to get on today.   Aint as physically messed up today as I thought I was gonna be.

Many new gods I'll have to get used to... the last one I was working with was Fenrir, who mostly seemed to consist of running around ganking endlessly with his high-damage combo. Also he's got the funnest ultimate so far.  There was evil cackling involved when using him.

That new rock guy looks like one I'd enjoy, so I'll probably try him out.  Forget the name.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #361 on: February 11, 2014, 09:54:25 AM »
Yeah well, for me there are basically leavers every game.

Also, I disagree with you about the "God Ranking" doesn't matter. When it's clear someone has played 50+ games with a single God, they are going to have a mastery of that God much greater than somebody who may be decent with most of them. Sure, the person who is decent with all gods may be pretty good at the "Assault" game mode, but I have a hard time believing that their mastery of one God will be the same as somebody who plays that God almost exclusively, or at least regularly.

You're also either forgetting or ignoring the skill gap here. The matchmaking system *gave us* two bad players. Both of them had only mastered one God, and the ones they were playing weren't even those that they had mastered. They looked like complete noobs, and they were complete noobs. Then they left the game at 10 minutes because we were getting destroyed so hard.

Games like this happen constantly. I'll probably take a break from it for awhile until they fix some things like this, hopefully in the future.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 11:13:48 AM by Wingflier »
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #362 on: February 12, 2014, 11:38:37 AM »
Woo, team of Russians.

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Offline zespri

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #363 on: February 12, 2014, 11:03:00 PM »
Woo, team of Russians.
And god knows we do hate those terrible Russians!  :P

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #364 on: February 13, 2014, 10:21:57 AM »


And a leaver. Every game.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #365 on: February 13, 2014, 12:43:38 PM »
Haha, man you are really hitting them! I haven't seen a leaver in days :P
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #366 on: February 13, 2014, 01:07:41 PM »
Perhaps the matchmaking doesn't have the goals we think it does.


"This player appears to need additional practice dealing with frustration.  I know exactly the right team."
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #367 on: February 13, 2014, 01:08:02 PM »
Perhaps the matchmaking doesn't have the goals we think it does.


"This player appears to need additional practice dealing with frustration.  I know exactly the right team."
Haha, this might be true. :D
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #368 on: February 13, 2014, 01:48:04 PM »
Perhaps the matchmaking doesn't have the goals we think it does.


"This player appears to need additional practice dealing with frustration.  I know exactly the right team."
Haha, this might be true. :D
Haha well, if that *is* the goal, it's doing a great job.

In all seriousness though, it's the bad teammates that bother me over the leavers. I can win 4v5, I've done it a few times before. If you're gonna give me leavers fine, just give me some competent people!

Finally got a good team last game so I can't complain too much :P
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Offline Mick

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #369 on: February 13, 2014, 02:11:45 PM »
I've always had the attitude in these team style games that idiot players end up making things a wash over many games. If an idiot is in a game, you only have a bit less than a 50% chance he'll be on your team (unless you yourself are the idiot, heh).

There's a bit of bias that goes on in categorizing wins and losses. Players win because they are skilled and awesome (not because the other team had a feeder), they lose because of poor luck/bad-teammates (rarely because they were simply outplayed).

Hell, it doesn't even apply just to team games. Card games like Hearthstone. Every win = skill, every loss = opponent got lucky. No one ever wins because *they* got lucky. :D

I try not to let such things get to me. I just play the best that I can and shrug off losing.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #370 on: February 13, 2014, 03:41:17 PM »
I've always had the attitude in these team style games that idiot players end up making things a wash over many games. If an idiot is in a game, you only have a bit less than a 50% chance he'll be on your team (unless you yourself are the idiot, heh).

There's a bit of bias that goes on in categorizing wins and losses. Players win because they are skilled and awesome (not because the other team had a feeder), they lose because of poor luck/bad-teammates (rarely because they were simply outplayed).

Hell, it doesn't even apply just to team games. Card games like Hearthstone. Every win = skill, every loss = opponent got lucky. No one ever wins because *they* got lucky. :D

I try not to let such things get to me. I just play the best that I can and shrug off losing.
My problem with the Smite MM system is not that it gives me one bad player, but a team of bad players, at least compared to their team. If it was just one "idiot" as you say, then that would be doable.

However, when your entire team goes negative almost every game, and you're the only player going positive (or anywhere close to positive), that's a whole different subject than just one bad player.

I don't really mind losing either. Honestly, I don't. Losing means I simply need to improve my skills as a player. However, losing in a fairly even-matched game in which both sides had some good and some bad players, and losing in a one-sided stomp which consistently causes people to leave because it's so unbelievably unbalanced (aka most Smite games I play) is a completely different story.

If winning were all that mattered to me (not even games), I would just begin making new accounts every time I started being considered "God Himself" or whatever by the matchmaking system. The first 10-15 games weren't really a challenge, then things seemed pretty even, then suddenly my next 20 games are being stuck on teams that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'm just saying there's gotta be a happy medium somewhere.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #371 on: February 13, 2014, 03:51:08 PM »
Okay, I take that back. Clearly I have been doing too good lately, because my god what scrubs I've been teamed up with today. Ugh. Enough Smite for today methinks :P
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Offline Misery

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #372 on: February 14, 2014, 12:49:06 AM »
I've always had the attitude in these team style games that idiot players end up making things a wash over many games. If an idiot is in a game, you only have a bit less than a 50% chance he'll be on your team (unless you yourself are the idiot, heh).

There's a bit of bias that goes on in categorizing wins and losses. Players win because they are skilled and awesome (not because the other team had a feeder), they lose because of poor luck/bad-teammates (rarely because they were simply outplayed).

Hell, it doesn't even apply just to team games. Card games like Hearthstone. Every win = skill, every loss = opponent got lucky. No one ever wins because *they* got lucky. :D

I try not to let such things get to me. I just play the best that I can and shrug off losing.


Ahhh, I can agree with this one, a thousand times over.

I've seen this in the fighting game genre about 20 billionty times. When I completely stomp someone, it's always "well if such and such thing had worked CORRECTLY in that match, you definitely woulda lost".  Even if it's the 15th time in a row that the stomping has occurred.  And of course nobody in that genre can just have matches for fun, it's always super-serious and ya gotta follow the metagame and the tiers and you're a scrub if you dont use the RIGHT combos (even if you're winning like crazy with the "wrong" ones).  Ugh.  These trends in competetive games are very.... irritating.

Though it's at it's worst when watching videos with commentary in games like Dota or LoL or whatever.   I watch a lot of videos of Dota done by Purge, which involves him commenting during matches he had, and even with someone like him who often acts very professional and never goes into rage mode, it's always always always things like:  "Well, see, if such and such teammate had done THIS instead of THAT, and if this other thing had been like this, the enemy would never have won that teamfight.  We woulda taken them out with ease" and such as that.  The enemy is NEVER skilled... it's just allies that make mistakes that cause losses!

I typically do as you do and try to simply do the best I can in any match regardless of what's going on.  Regardless of wether we win or lose, my own performance can be good or bad, seperate of that, and that's what I focus on.


And it's rare that I get into what I personally classify as a "good" team.  I dont mean "skilled" here, I'm talking more about attitude and such.  I had a match in Dawngate recently where we had this one guy who was REALLY new, and hadnt the foggiest idea as to what he should be doing at any given time.  But since it was a good team, we all just encouraged the guy to experiment and to feel free to try things out or ask questions or whatever, and learn as he goes.  Nobody yelled, nobody insulted anyone..... it was good overall.  They're much more fun that way.  Too many players forget what "fun" is, and they forget that it's supposed to be one of the points of gaming in the first place.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #373 on: February 14, 2014, 10:46:28 AM »
Too many players forget what "fun" is, and they forget that it's supposed to be one of the points of gaming in the first place.
This. So many times this. I wish more gamers would realize this. I can imagine having a hyper-competitive mindset in ranked games, but when you are in casual, why do you even bother? I mean, even if people on my team screw up to no end, I rarely, if ever, complain in chat. I might swear IRL, but I'll never let that go out over my fellow players, unless I'm having a really bad day and am just incapable of controlling myself.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #374 on: February 14, 2014, 10:59:51 AM »
Not letting "playing to win" get in the way of "playing for fun" is important, but there's another factor involved.

Generally speaking, tactical situations are most interesting when it's a close fight.  Doesn't mean the sides have to be "balanced", in that a vastly inferior force in a great position can do remarkably well in an exciting way.  But if it's just a stomp because the battle was won "before it started" then the tactical excitement is much lower.

It's not even a matter of losing not being fun.  If you play 20 games and 10 are "we got completely stomped, no contest at any point" and the other 10 are "they got completely stomped, no contest at any point" then it's not nearly as exciting as close fights.

Smite sounds like the kind of game where you can still have fun doing that, particularly early on, but in a genre where people are used to being able to play thousands of matches and still enjoy it... well, the fun of simply-playing-it may not hold out.

Of course, it doesn't sound like it's quite so bad as to have a run of 20 "no contest" games, and I imagine the matchmaking will get better with time :)
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