Author Topic: Moba balance comparison, please comment  (Read 205655 times)

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #570 on: September 24, 2014, 04:52:49 am »
Huge DotA update being released soon, super exciting! http://www.dota2.com/rekindlingsoul/

Tons of balance changes to completely shake up the current (extreme tower pushing meta) and to tweak some under/overused heroes. Two heroes completely redesigned. Map redesigned, new item and rune changes. Apparently a secret project is being worked on for release in early next year. The way they make it sound, it's going to be life-altering. I can't even imagine what it could be, any ideas?

Also, Satan:

"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline Hearteater

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,334
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #571 on: September 24, 2014, 09:51:57 am »
I can't wait for the LoL Graphics update.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #572 on: September 24, 2014, 11:25:09 am »
I can't wait for the LoL Graphics update.
If only they'd skip those AWFUL black outlines >_>
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #573 on: September 24, 2014, 03:45:40 pm »
From the SMITE side of things, we're expecting a graphics update to the Conquest map but its unknown when that's coming. Considering what they did to Assault and Siege, I'm really looking forward to it.
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #574 on: September 24, 2014, 09:02:16 pm »
I can't wait for the LoL Graphics update.

This just looks less colorful to me, really.... kinda looks the same as before otherwise.

I give it a "bah" out of 10.

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #575 on: September 24, 2014, 09:37:10 pm »
I can't wait for the LoL Graphics update.

This just looks less colorful to me, really.... kinda looks the same as before otherwise.

I give it a "bah" out of 10.

Same, not impressed. Within three viewings, I completely forgot about an "upgrade".
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline Hearteater

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,334
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #576 on: September 24, 2014, 10:04:20 pm »
LOL update comparison for anyone that cares.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #577 on: September 24, 2014, 10:31:12 pm »
LOL update comparison for anyone that cares.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that was a variation of Dota 2's map. Not that I play either, but it seems to be going the less-colorful route is a bad idea.
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #578 on: September 24, 2014, 10:51:26 pm »
Ugh, that actually makes it look even worse.

Why would they.... just.... argh.

Oh, but I forgot, they gotta keep with the times, right?  Colorful ANYTHING is just not popular these days.  Green, brown, grey.  All the colors of the current rainbow.

Offline Hearteater

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,334
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #579 on: September 24, 2014, 11:16:14 pm »
We'll have to see what it looks like when it is done. It is darker, but greatly improved otherwise. They could decide to brighten it up still. The characters are still going to be bright and will certainly pop out very clearly (an issue I have with DOTA2, the drab models, minions in particular, blend into the background).

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #580 on: September 25, 2014, 04:41:06 pm »
Meh. I was never a fan of LoL's art even when I played it. DotA kinda also looks like tripe. But it's not graphics that makes a game. But down to personal taste, they both look pretty awful.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #581 on: October 08, 2014, 12:34:00 pm »
Meh. I was never a fan of LoL's art even when I played it. DotA kinda also looks like tripe. But it's not graphics that makes a game. But down to personal taste, they both look pretty awful.
I agree that DotA 2's graphics could be better, though I personally like them, even if they are very stylized to some degree.

However, the news is that Valve's big project for the new year is to port DotA 2 onto their new "Source 2" engine, which will, we can only assume, improve the graphics, effects, and quality dramatically. Valve has always been a pioneer in making cutting edge graphics improvements while also keeping the requirements low enough to work on modest hardware, so I'm extremely excited to see what's in store for early next year.

DotA's latest patch (6.82) has been a complete game changer. Many key mechanics were fundamentally changed in response to the extreme pushing metagame which existed during the TI4 tournament.

The results have been impressive. Some major changes are that towers are significantly harder to kill now, and give less gold overall. The map layout has changed in a few ways to incorporate more paths through the game. A new rune was added, and now runes spawn on both sides of the river every 2 minutes (HUGE). Most importantly though, the gold mechanics for kills has changed dramatically.

Before, gold amount was rewarded based on:

1. The killed player's level
2. The amount of time elapsed in the game (more time = more gold)
3. If the killed player had a streak

While all of that was a nice bonus for killing an especially farmed enemy, it didn't always cause the game to shift in a noticeable way, or bring the favor back into the hands of the losing team.

Now, a new mechanic has been added. In addition to receiving gold for all those reasons, the killing team also receives gold based on the killed hero's net worth. What this means, in essence, is that a percentage of all the killed character's item costs and farm is instantly rewarded to the killer (and his allies).

In essence, this has changed the game completely. It's added a new mechanic which the DotA community seems to be calling "rubberbanding", in which when one team (or one hero specifically) gets too far ahead, killing them offers dramatic, game-altering rewards which can completely shift the tides almost instantly.

Debates have been raging about whether the changes have gone too far, producing a "Mario Kart" type of punishment for the leading player (or in this case, team); and there certainly is a danger of that. However, I've been extremely impressed with the new changes. Comebacks are not only common, they are expected within the new patch. It no longer even seems to matter which team is ahead on farm or exp, only whether your team can coordinate the plays necessary to win a big teamfight or two, and then push your well-earned advantage.

Don't get me wrong, there most certainly *is* an advantage of being ahead for most of the match, there's much less of that "Oh crap we're doomed" scenario playing out repeatedly game after game, the way it has been in the past, and it's more about convincing your team to work together to turn things around (or finish the game before they do!). "6.82" has actually become a commonly quoted mantra when a player is complaining that the game is impossible to win, or a team gets too cocky and thinks they have no chance of losing. Think it's over? 6.82, it's not over until the fat lady sings.
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #582 on: October 08, 2014, 12:56:38 pm »
The only potential concern I'd have, with what you described Wingflier, is even longer games. If I were playing DOTA2 at any rate. Considering they already seem to average 60 minutes at best from what I've observed, that seems to suggest they'll go even longer. In comparison, SMITE Conquest games go on an average of 30-40mins, with a maximum of 60-70mins at best because the gods become so lethal (and respawn timers so long) that one team fight at 60mins will decide the game outright. But hey, if they want the games to be longer, not up to me to say nay to them, just something I find interesting.
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #583 on: October 08, 2014, 01:29:38 pm »
I have serious issues staying focused for a full Conquest game of 40+ minutes. DotA would likely cause my concentration to go bananas before I was even halfway through.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #584 on: October 08, 2014, 01:45:44 pm »
The only potential concern I'd have, with what you described Wingflier, is even longer games. If I were playing DOTA2 at any rate. Considering they already seem to average 60 minutes at best from what I've observed, that seems to suggest they'll go even longer. In comparison, SMITE Conquest games go on an average of 30-40mins, with a maximum of 60-70mins at best because the gods become so lethal (and respawn timers so long) that one team fight at 60mins will decide the game outright. But hey, if they want the games to be longer, not up to me to say nay to them, just something I find interesting.
http://dotametrics.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/6-82-has-resulted-in-closer-longer-matches/

Average match in this version is about 41 minutes. Unfortunately that means that some matches go 60 minutes plus, which can be quite excessive, especially without a concede option. On the other hand, a concede option is no longer necessary, unlike in the other MOBAs I've played, because the new gold mechanics ensure either team can win if they are playing better. It's definitely a give and take change, but hopefully the next patch will keep the same "close games" effect, while reducing some of the match length.
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."