Legends of Pegasus

[eRe4s3r]

Yeah, but where is the fun in that? ;P I think the devs wanted to push this as far as it went 0 limits 0 restrictions endless scale. And hey, a unique game came out of it, with issues sure, but it was a try for something new. At least we now know that some things don't work

But we also know that most other 4x games don't even bother to innovate anymore.

[keith.lamothe]

Yeah, but where is the fun in that? ;P I think the devs wanted to push this as far as it went 0 limits 0 restrictions endless scale. And hey, a unique game came out of it, with issues sure, but it was a try for something new. At least we now know that some things don't work

But we also know that most other 4x games don't even bother to innovate anymore.

Star Ruler is certainly innovative.  I enjoy Endless Space more (just looking at recent games), but if only one of them could have been made, Star Ruler would have been the better contribution to the genre.  Not much in ES that I can't get in older offerings.

[Volatar]

One of the things I needed from Star Ruler was more feedback on the performance of my ship designs. I really had no way to know what was working well and what wasn't.

[eRe4s3r]

I think the "are you winning or losing combat" comparison is enough ;p But yeah, there is no easy quick way to compare ship-designs unless you are really really into the whole thing. There are many parameters regarding salvos, reload times, and ammo vs energy consumption to be aware off....

[keith.lamothe]

I think the "are you winning or losing combat" comparison is enough ;p

I found it difficult to tell if my stuff was in range of the enemy, or was in range and just missing, etc.

Later on it wasn't much of a problem: I could tell I'd hit my target because one of the enemy's stars blew up.

Ah, good times.

[Mánagarmr]

If you're looking for a PROPER 4X, Star Drive looks incredibly promising.

[keith.lamothe]

If you're looking for a PROPER 4X, Star Drive looks incredibly promising.

Cynicism shields are still holding, captain!

(haven't checked the link)

[Mánagarmr]

Not very cynical. Just painfully honest Pegasus is broken beyond belief, just like every other game that hasn't been shallow as a pool of water.

[orzelek]

Start Drive is what I'm waiting for also. But their web page is in state of constant update - at least forums are a bit alive and it seems work is progressing but it will be done when it's done rule is in place.

[eRe4s3r]

So just because it's relevant again.. the developer is bankrupt.. all patching has ceased and it will not be open sourced. And Kalpyso (Publisher) Gives you a thank you for your wasting money on their inferior incomplete crap. At least this time, and after SOTS2, the 4x buyers have been vigilant. Don't support broken releases. Ever.

Link -> http://www.bluesnews.com/s/135780/legends-of-pegasus-developer-bankrupt

As usual, my oracle abilities have been proven correct again. After SOTS2 pulling a stunt like this is no longer gonna work out for a developer, and I am actually happy for this. If you make a game that is so broken it can't even be played right, and you sell it for 45€ and then don't patch it, then that is a scam. Pure and simple. And scammers should be .. not supported.

[chemical_art]

I know I'll be the stick in the mud, but its not all the publisher's fault.

For a developer to go bankrupt, that meant they mismanaged their game's development badly.

Whether it be that they missed their own set deadlines so had cost overruns and not having enough time for bug testing, or misjudged the amount of sales, the internal politics of a developer to go bankrupt meant they, and not the publisher, were responsible for the initial set of problems.

If a publisher "rushes a game's development" it is not just a matter of the publisher being impatient. It means the developer either takes a pay cut themselves or asks more money from the publisher. In the era of steam publishers aren't needed so much for distrubtion as for seed money, especially for new companies like this game developer.

If anyone has seen the botched development of Paradox's funded title Magna Mundi knows of an example where a game's developer took seed money and made an unreleasable game.

The publisher does deserve blame for releasing the game, but no more unless more evidence rises.

[eRe4s3r]

With Kalypso it is always the same though... waiting for this publisher to ever support a game is pointless.

In this case, I specifically blamed the developer... I only thanked Kalypso for stilling selling it, at 45€ -> http://store.steampowered.com/app/205590/ which to me is a scam (at this point)

So yes, developers who make broken as hell games, and publishers who release them to the public. These are 2 things and 2 different entities to blame. Both are equally terribad.

In this instance, the publisher deserves 3 times as much blame. Because 1) They sold it at 45€, which is absurd high for a broken and buggy at release Indy game 2) They lied to the community constantly that the issues "will be fixed" and 3) They continue to sell it even now.

In any case, I never said it was all the publishers fault.. in fact I never said it was the publishers fault at all ;P (Though there are other things that Kalypso can be blamed for.. ;p)

[chemical_art]

But it is the developer who ultimately is responsible for creating the bugs in the first place, and for fixing them. It could have been a matter of the developer going "we need more money to fix this game!" and the publisher going "You were responsible for making a playable game with your budget! That was the contract. Now you want more money?"

It's the developer who went bankrupt, and thus why support died.  The developer went bankrupt because I guess they were depending on royalties from a game they couldn't release in a playable state. They were the one were released the buggy game and went bankrupt for it.

How is the publisher supposed to support a game they didn't make? They going to hire another team? They certainly didn't plan on the company who made it to die, they thought they would make a playable game. Which is in part why they said the game would be fixed.

EDIT: I'm sorry for you it was 45 euros, in the states it is 40 dollars.

[eRe4s3r]

I think you misunderstood me.. or maybe.. you should read more than the first line of a post ;P

To put it bluntly, I don't blame the publisher for the state of the game or for the state of the developer now. I have literally no idea what you are reading, but it can't be my posts. ;P Like seriously, I explicitly said that I am happy developers can't get away with stuff like this anymore.

Are you arguing that a publisher should be selling a broken unfinished game that doesn't work? If so.. I disagree, strongly. I don't care what they couldn't do. I care what they do. And currently they are selling Legends of Pegasus, unplayable broken and literally at that, for full price. That is the definition of a scam, especially at this point in time.

[chemical_art]

And Kalpyso (Publisher) Gives you a thank you for your wasting money on their inferior incomplete crap.

This was what I had a beef with. Of course I didn't see that second paragraph after your link. Sorry about that.  Still stand by my opinion though.

The developer didn't plan on the game company going bankrupt. To make the game free or cheaper could immediately open all sorts of liabilities which could actually bankrupt them. It takes time to actually lower the prices from the distrubtors as well, so I wouldn't be fully surprised if there is a price drop shortly.

Caveat emptor.

It isn't right, but it isn't new. The developer might have plead with the publisher to sell the game incomplete to get more funds to fix the games, but it didn't work out for them so the game remains incomplete. If the developer is going bankrupt they aren't making the sales they expected, so the publisher has an interest to get as money as they can. There won't be a sequel, probably not another 4x by them I'd wager, so why do they care? Looking at Kalypso's games, they aren't really caring about their opinion.

We both agree on the solution no doubt.

Don't support incomplete games. Ever.

Which is why I don't preorder games anymore.