Author Topic: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter  (Read 1366 times)

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,847
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2016, 11:23:30 PM »
Hmm, it sounds more like the game's overall strategy/style just doesn't agree with your own...
Possible.
Quote
I suspect it'd be the same if I were to try playing the game you're talking about.  I can never get *anywhere* in those "everything is unidentified because your character is a damn moron" sorts of roguelikes.  Gimme a week at it, and I'll somehow have made backwards progress.  That game you describe there would probably just eat me.  Many times.

Scrolls are never bad to read. I mean, don't until you have:
1) an unidentified item (that isn't a potion or scroll)
2) an item you want to upgrade (usually either: wand, non-starting armor, decent weapon*)
3) 3+ scrolls

*The shortsword the fighter starts with, brass knuckles (they're super fast), etc.

Then you just read all of them when it's safe. You'll usually have at least one of either [Upgrade, Identify, Enchant] all of which you want to ID early.  Don't enchant armor, it's not worth it (all of the enchants are dubious IMO, they give you some Benefit X and some Detriment Y, its super weird; all the weapon enchants are straight bonus effect).  The rest "do stuff" to nearby monsters.

Potions there's two options with:
Drink them
Throw them

Drinking the bad potions are minorly detrimental (either wait until you're about to lose to a monster and you haven't IDd the health potion yet, or pick somewhere safe, near both a closed door and a puddle of water; door for the poison cloud, puddle for the fire) while tossing the good potions (there are ~three) is a moderate loss (depending).  If you already IDed all three good potions, you can chuck one at a monster and not feel bad.  If you haven't, don't chuck a potion you have two of, its less likely to be the good ones.

IDing wands is "pick it up, zap it into a corner of the room" as it will always ID the effect even if it wasn't apparent.  Wands usually have 2 charges max when you find them, if you activate a wand and it has none left, you'll ID its max number.  Sometimes they'll be upgraded already and have 3.

Rings: just read a scroll of ID.  Rings are almost never worth equipping in the first place, even if you know what they are (due to the way they take damage) and cursed ones can really hose you.  Same holds true for unidentified armor and weapons.  However, unidentified items that are equipped do eventually self-analyze (takes about a floor).

That's pretty much everything.  The only other thing to note is that there are some "secret access" rooms that require certain items to get into. Room full of fish: invisibility potion (the fish grant no exp, they are not worth killing, although they do drop "mystery meat" which can be cooked into food). Room full of traps/pit: potion of levitation. Etc.  One of these items is guaranteed to spawn on the same level, I've frequently been able to narrow down my carried potions to 1 or 2 (rarely 3) for the one I need for the given room.  Drink or throw as appropriate.

I don't worry about wasting hostile-action scrolls because their effect on monsters is both resistable and not very long lasting.  In fact, I've never used a scroll with the intent to stun/freeze/frighten/sleep monsters because it's not worth it.  I've occasionally used potions to such effect and even then I'm very picky about what potion and how (fire potions do like 2 damage + burn, and if the monster steps on a puddle, the burn goes out--it is, however, SUPER EFFECTIVE against fly swarms, as a burning fly swarm that splits is now two swarms that are both on fire.  Also, they can't step in puddle, they're flying).

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,991
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2016, 12:52:53 AM »
Eh, mostly I've just always loathed the identification mechanic, to be honest.  With those games I honestly cant be bothered to learn it very much.   Mostly, it's not strategic or even remotely tactical to me... roguelikes have enough random chaos as it is, but this mechanic adds totally unnecessary pure trial and error to the mix.  And the methods of identifying things are usually very, very screwy and unintuitive, and it takes up unnecessary amounts of time that could be used doing... any other freaking thing.  It also honestly just feels REALLY tacked on.  Like they couldn't think of anything better. 

As it is I usually just totally ignore the "classic" roguelikes entirely because they have it.  Something like Nethack is... bleh. I don't understand the appeal whatsoever.

I always feel like if the devs cant figure out how to generate challenge in the game WITHOUT just making tons of aspects effectively invisible, there's something wrong.

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,847
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2016, 02:23:08 AM »
Oh I agree. I don't like it much either.  Its just that in Pixel Dungeons it doesn't matter a whole lot.  Stuff is very easy to ID, generally, and the reason it's not auto-IDed is to put an element of risk into things so that you have to make tough choices.

Anyway, its a free mobile game. It's not meant to be super complex.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,248
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2016, 04:38:47 AM »
Gotta love the Arcen forums. There were like four posts on Jupiter Hell, then we started talking Dredmore. xD
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,551
  • Cluck.
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2016, 06:33:48 AM »
Gotta love the Arcen forums. There were like four posts on Jupiter Hell, then we started talking Dredmore. xD
that's about right really :) and now I'm going to derail this even further by asking if anybody here has by any chance played a game called Orwell?.
 http://store.steampowered.com/app/491950/ its a rather interesting narrative driven game even though its episodic though it doesn't make you pay for them individually.
 and its pretty much finished since the last part of it came out today haven't gotten round to that yet though.
c.r

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,991
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2016, 08:05:33 AM »
An episodic story game?

Well, you didn't just derail it, you went back and used dynamite on the track so that everyone else will also derail. 

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,551
  • Cluck.
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2016, 09:10:12 AM »
An episodic story game?

Well, you didn't just derail it, you went back and used dynamite on the track so that everyone else will also derail.
yeap pretty much XD
though its not truly episodic since it doesn't make you pay for individual parts.
c.r

Offline TheVampire100

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,177
  • Ordinary Vampire
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2016, 11:38:07 AM »
Anyway, its a free mobile game. It's not meant to be super complex.
I looked it up in the app store, it's not free. At least not for iOS.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,248
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2016, 05:37:06 PM »
Quote from: Kickstarter Update
Jupiter Hell stands very heavily on the shoulders of DoomRL, which was widely praised for its fast and fluid gameplay. Unlike many traditional roguelikes, DoomRL had a simple interface that let the player mow through many enemies with ease. Challenge came in the form of optimal tactical decisions and resource management, rather than remembering obscure key-presses or spending lots of time scumming for the best items.

To ensure that we get this right for Jupiter Hell we have defined 6 pillars of game design ethos that run through all of our decision-making:

Replayability - If it gets boring after 100 plays, then remove it or change it or make it skippable. It doesn’t matter how cool the idea was at first, it must stand up to multiple replays. This also means the game must fluidly restart, so that once you die you get right back into the action without any annoying menus or story fluff.

Balanced Randomness - Random shouldn’t mean unfair. No sudden deaths, no insta-win items, no impossible situations. This means putting constraints on the generators and doing a huge amount of playtesting to get the balance right. We’ll also have multiple difficulty levels and challenges to push even the best players to their limits.

Meaningful Choices - If everyone always chooses option A over option B then option B needs to be removed or replaced. There will be no “better” path or strictly “best weapon in the game”. If players aren’t arguing over which is the best build then we’ve done our job wrong. It also means choices can’t be boring - level ups and weapon upgrades should not mean +3% to a stat, they should change the way you play.

No Grinding - There will be zero opportunities to do repeated actions for limitless rewards. No item hoarding (inventories are limited), no scumming enemies for xp (it’ll get capped), no resting for HP recovery. Jupiter Hell is not allowed to be boring!

Accessibility - The whole user experience has to work with ease, even for the newest players. Simple controls, pick-up-and-play interface, no need to mess around with manuals or tutorials (the game will have both, but the aim is not to need them). Accessibility also means working for everyone, and to that end we’ll have customisable controls, multiple input methods (mouse, keyboard, joypad) and support for screenreaders in ASCII mode so that blind players can still fully enjoy the game.

Dynamic Flow - The pace of the game must be just right, allowing smooth and seamless flow throughout. Decision-making must come easily, without having to dig through menus. There should be no slow moments, no backtracking, and the player will be pushed forward throughout the game so that they never feel bored. This also applies to other game elements - dynamic soundtrack, adaptive animation, zero loading times. The game as a whole allows a satisfying run (ie a glorious death after having lots of fun) within 20 minutes, and completion within 2-3 hours, though actually reaching that stage will involve many attempts! We look forward to seeing what speedrunners can achieve.

Well that certainly sounds compelling.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline TheVampire100

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,177
  • Ordinary Vampire
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2016, 12:39:52 PM »
Bought Pixel Dungeon now anyway, a nice little rogue-like but like you said, not very complex. And of course I suck in this, like in any rogue-like.

Jupiter Hell seems to be stuck now at 50% for some time. I would hope for it to get funded but it seems a little unlikely now? Still 16 days to go, maybe it will work out allright, but it has only 885 suporters which means that they don't reach a big playerbase/community.

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,847
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2016, 06:27:18 PM »
Bought Pixel Dungeon now anyway, a nice little rogue-like but like you said, not very complex. And of course I suck in this, like in any rogue-like.

I finally, earlier today, made my attempt at the level 15 boss with the huntress. Got my ass handed to me as I expected.  I got him down to about half health, but was forced to make a move that would result in him healing (which is like 40% of his total hp when he moves onto a "used trap" space, which are about a fifth of the floor's tiles).  Then I got repeatedly stunned (every time he moves, it causes an avalanch in one of the 8 spaces around him at random) and swiftly died.  I couldn't use ranged attacks (I attack, he moves closer, swiftly reducing my range, plus enemy movement is harder to control at a distance, meaning more healing for him as he steps onto the trap spaces) which did almost no damage anyway.

I've beaten him once, ever.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,248
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2016, 02:10:43 AM »
With 36 hours to go, the KS is now at 96%. If you have *any* interest in this game, now is the time to back and make sure it gets made. Don't wait and see if "someone else" will. If you have an interest, please help. If not, well why are you in this thread in the first place? ^^

Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,248
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2016, 02:15:25 AM »
Seeing as my economy is a bit better, I upped my pledge to the £60 level. That's all I can do at the moment.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Misery

  • Global Moderator
  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,991
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2016, 05:41:56 AM »
....36 freaking hours, and it's THAT close.

I cant even imagine how stressed the dev must be.   I'd be climbing the freaking walls with anxiety at this point.

It'll be very frustrating if this one doesn't make it.


I backed it at the "get the alpha version" level.   I mean, wait until freaking November?  Yeah, I think not.  I don't have that level of patience.  Or any patience, really.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,248
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Jupiter Hell: Now on Kickstarter
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2016, 06:10:56 AM »
....36 freaking hours, and it's THAT close.

I cant even imagine how stressed the dev must be.   I'd be climbing the freaking walls with anxiety at this point.

It'll be very frustrating if this one doesn't make it.


I backed it at the "get the alpha version" level.   I mean, wait until freaking November?  Yeah, I think not.  I don't have that level of patience.  Or any patience, really.
Patience is not your forte xD
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!