Improving Mobas for a solo experience

[zebramatt]

I mean really, multiplayer online battle arena? That could describe anything from quake ctf to a co-op game of AI War (if you stretch arena to encompass a whole galaxy

Sounds like you haven't played any MOBA games. Quake doesn't have lanes, champions/heroes, creeps, turrets, shop nor nexus. Neither does AI War. Well AI War kinda does have Nexus...

EDIT:

I've never even tried, outside of vague fooling around with bots.

Ah there.. Ok.

No, the abbreviation silly. Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. That literally encompasses 95% of online games. They're multiplayer, they're online, you battle, and you're in a pre-defined space i.e. an arena. I know how dota works, and that's not what I'm talking about.

Call of Duty is an RPG. You play as a fictional character.
Skyrim is an FPS. You can shoot arrows and spells.
HERP A DERP

EDIT: Oh! And all Final Fantasy games are RTS games. They're real time and you have to decide which skills to use in combat.
C&C is an RPG because you're the commander and you command units.

I mean really, multiplayer online battle arena? That could describe anything from quake ctf to a co-op game of AI War (if you stretch arena to encompass a whole galaxy

Sounds like you haven't played any MOBA games. Quake doesn't have lanes, champions/heroes, creeps, turrets, shop nor nexus. Neither does AI War. Well AI War kinda does have Nexus...

I think he means that the phrase  "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena", if you don't already know what it means, could be used to describe a much broader set of genres than it is actually used to describe.  In other words, the phrase is accurate but very imprecise.

Get with the program, people! 

[Wingflier]

Well I don't understand why you want a solo experience in your moba games. I mean aren't team games made to be team oriented? If you want a better solo experience, why not play a single player game?

[RCIX]

Well I don't understand why you want a solo experience in your moba games. I mean aren't team games made to be team oriented? If you want a better solo experience, why not play a single player game?

Because all the other single player games are boring all the time (or more precisely, get boring quickly)? A moba is really fun when my solo skills have a meaningful impact but that's far too sparse for my taste.

[keith.lamothe]

If one has access to a reliable, pleasant-to-play-with team or teams, then the Multiplayer part of the MOBA is perfect.  Otherwise, it often comes down to "how can I enjoy this solo?".

As for why-not-play-a-singleplayer-game... well, sometimes that does fit the appetite.  And for some of us, it always does (if any game will).   Other times the general gameplay concept of the MOBA is more what is desired, and AIs just aren't up to filling the roles of the other heroes.  But there are aspects of existing MOBAs which grate against that sort of desired experience... hence the topic

[Wingflier]

Well I don't understand why you want a solo experience in your moba games. I mean aren't team games made to be team oriented? If you want a better solo experience, why not play a single player game?

Because all the other single player games are boring all the time (or more precisely, get boring quickly)? A moba is really fun when my solo skills have a meaningful impact but that's far too sparse for my taste.

Well these are two separate issues you're raising, which is why I'm getting confused:

1. I want to have a good solo experience.

2. I want my individual skills to have an impact.

Your individual skills can have an impact while not necessarily being a good solo experience, and you can have a good solo experience with your individual skills not necessarily having a huge impact.

If you're looking for your personal skills to have a big impact on the game, I think DotA is the way to go, because your personal skills as a player can have a much bigger affect on the game than in League.  If you're looking for a better solo experience in a multiplayer game, I'm not sure what to tell you.

The only multiplayer games in which you can kind of ignore your team and still be successful, are games like Counter-Strike where if your personal skill is high enough, you can basically win by yourself; or an RPG like Diablo 2 where if you're farmed enough, you don't really need your teammates to be successful.  I have no idea how to make a team-based MOBA game more enjoyable for each individual player (if their team sucks).

[RCIX]

Well I don't understand why you want a solo experience in your moba games. I mean aren't team games made to be team oriented? If you want a better solo experience, why not play a single player game?

Because all the other single player games are boring all the time (or more precisely, get boring quickly)? A moba is really fun when my solo skills have a meaningful impact but that's far too sparse for my taste.

Well these are two separate issues you're raising, which is why I'm getting confused:

1. I want to have a good solo experience.

2. I want my individual skills to have an impact.

Your individual skills can have an impact while not necessarily being a good solo experience, and you can have a good solo experience with your individual skills not necessarily having a huge impact.

If you're looking for your personal skills to have a big impact on the game, I think DotA is the way to go, because your personal skills as a player can have a much bigger affect on the game than in League.  If you're looking for a better solo experience in a multiplayer game, I'm not sure what to tell you.

The only multiplayer games in which you can kind of ignore your team and still be successful, are games like Counter-Strike where if your personal skill is high enough, you can basically win by yourself; or an RPG like Diablo 2 where if you're farmed enough, you don't really need your teammates to be successful.  I have no idea how to make a team-based MOBA game more enjoyable for each individual player (if their team sucks).

I like the crossroads of strategy, tactics, twitch based gameplay, and customization you find in a MOBA. Also, every single player game I play eventually gets boring because the AI is predictable (this actually apparently spurred the development of AI war) or I just run out of interest in the gametype (see Minecraft). I've been thinking about it and my best guess of what I want is basically some sort of 1v1 MOBA. Yes, I'm that guy who thinks 1v1s are a true estimation of skill, though I understand the caveats of characters not being designed to 1v1 properly.

That said, it was the most fun I've had in a long time when I got to bot in a mirror Brand matchup on dominion and what won me fights was nothing but my skill in building my character, aiming my skillshots, and predicting my enemy's actions. This if of course a "team game" and people started wandering in, but those were some of the best few minutes of League in my recollected memory.

Thins like pushing more depth into a mix of skill usage (both in aiming and combos and smart forethought), a better/deeper item system, stuff like that.

[Hearteater]

That said, it was the most fun I've had in a long time when I got to bot in a mirror Brand matchup on dominion and what won me fights was nothing but my skill in building my character, aiming my skillshots, and predicting my enemy's actions. This if of course a "team game" and people started wandering in, but those were some of the best few minutes of League in my recollected memory.

Interestingly, I hate mirror matches.  Just too boring.

[RCIX]

That said, it was the most fun I've had in a long time when I got to bot in a mirror Brand matchup on dominion and what won me fights was nothing but my skill in building my character, aiming my skillshots, and predicting my enemy's actions. This if of course a "team game" and people started wandering in, but those were some of the best few minutes of League in my recollected memory.

Interestingly, I hate mirror matches.  Just too boring.

Mirror match is basically the only match you can get where it isn't tilted in one side's favor somehow, since League isn't designed with even laning matchups in mind. It's what I can get so I'll take it

[Hearteater]

I understand why some people like mirrors, I just find it interesting how some people do and some don't.  I actually often go draft solely so there won't be a mirror match.  Kind of like how I'm always a little disappointed when the AI starts with the same bonus ship as me.

[RCIX]

It depends on the champion really. Some are just about who uses X ability first or last (Jax comes to mind) but Brand is one of the better ones here. Draven could be too since you can catch enemy axes as him.

[Kahuna]

Well I don't understand why you want a solo experience in your moba games. I mean aren't team games made to be team oriented? If you want a better solo experience, why not play a single player game?

Oh yes! They really should remove solo queue and only allow 5 player premades to play. Can't join the queue until you have a 5 player premade. And Valve should do this to Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead too. You could only play with your Steam and Facebook friends. They're team games after all.

[keith.lamothe]

Well I don't understand why you want a solo experience in your moba games. I mean aren't team games made to be team oriented? If you want a better solo experience, why not play a single player game?

Oh yes! They really should remove solo queue and only allow 5 player premades to play. Can't join the queue until you have a 5 player premade. And Valve should do this to Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead too. You could only play with your Steam and Facebook friends. They're team games after all.

Kahuna, between this and other recent posts of yours, it would appear the AI has damaged your Rationality Engine

[RCIX]

Well I don't understand why you want a solo experience in your moba games. I mean aren't team games made to be team oriented? If you want a better solo experience, why not play a single player game?

Oh yes! They really should remove solo queue and only allow 5 player premades to play. Can't join the queue until you have a 5 player premade. And Valve should do this to Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead too. You could only play with your Steam and Facebook friends. They're team games after all.

Sometimes I wonder why there even is solo queue given that the game is so broken when using it...

[Volatar]

I mean really, multiplayer online battle arena? That could describe anything from quake ctf to a co-op game of AI War (if you stretch arena to encompass a whole galaxy

Sounds like you haven't played any MOBA games. Quake doesn't have lanes, champions/heroes, creeps, turrets, shop nor nexus. Neither does AI War. Well AI War kinda does have Nexus...

I think he means that the phrase  "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena", if you don't already know what it means, could be used to describe a much broader set of genres than it is actually used to describe.  In other words, the phrase is accurate but very imprecise.

MOBA is a term that has been created to describe all the "DotA-likes" that have popped up in the past couple years. It is not accurate, but neither are most genre labels.

for example: RTS? Pfft. The genre that is used to describe is utterly devoid of strategy. It is all Tactics. Only games that pull in 4X stuff can be said to have strategy, like AI War.

[RCIX]

for example: RTS? Pfft. The genre that is used to describe is utterly devoid of strategy. It is all Tactics. Only games that pull in 4X stuff can be said to have strategy, like AI War.

My complaint is that it's far too generic, anything that's A: not explicitly turn-based, and B: have any drop of tactics or strategy in it gets bucketed as an "RTS". But then again, I have the same complaint with everyone classing Sci-fi and fantasy together.