Author Topic: Guild Wars 2  (Read 27212 times)

Offline Misery

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2016, 01:40:12 am »
Yeah, CoH wasnt just good, it was the best MMO I ever played.  And I've played a TON of them.

I mean, I could ramble on about it's merits for ages.  Hell, the way it handled non-damage attacks.  In other MMOs, you just have stat debuffs to hit enemies with.  No proper "status ailments" like in a JRPG or anything.  Debuffing is usually a little boring in MMOs, and alot of players dont like doing it.  CoH did this differently.  One of the game's big things was big, heavy effects; these werent just random armored idiots you were playing as, these were freaking superheroes.  Their attacks were big and epic.  One character I had was based on sound attacks.  He was a Blaster, a class similar to a glass cannon (yet, not quite).  I set up his ability slots to basically create a build that was focused entirely around fighting entire waves of foes at once; not as good against single ones.  There was this one attack that just fired this huge wave forward, and anything caught in it would literally be FLUNG backwards.  Enemies would end up flat on their backs (needless to say, they cant attack in that position), and then I'd be free to make a heavy damage attack against anything strong enough to resist it, by shooting what was best described as an orb of concentrated shrieking, which made the awesomest noise ever.  Could take on HUGE numbers of enemies at once.

I actually got into ridiculous situations with groups of players that didn't quite understand the benefits of this, because I could hold and control more enemies than the group's tank could.  One group actually kicked me because of this.  The tank was supposed to tank!  I was ruining everything!  Because, you know, keeping control of 15 damn enemies at once and COMPLETELY preventing them from damaging anyone by constantly hitting them with steamrollers made of screaming (preventing them from even getting to attack the tank) was a bad idea, because it focused all the enemies on the blaster (me) instead of on the tank.  That's not how MMO groups work!  I facepalmed pretty hard at that.  But it WAS hilarious.  And you couldnt just do that stuff by JUST speccing your character, you had to then be skilled at using all of that. 

And I think that's what would really fix MMOs for me:  not having JUST the stats make the character work.  Make the player have to use ACTUAL SKILL to win fights.  It creates more challenge, and if the player is good enough, they could get more satisfaction by defeating horribly dangerous things by being just that damn good.  How is this NOT a good idea to have in a game?  I mean, seriously?  This sort of thing isnt rocket science.   Alot of games that are ALMOST MMOs do EXACTLY this, and prosper greatly from it, such as Monster Hunter, which is basically based entirely around this concept, and it's bloody fantastic.

Just... ugh.  The lack of that in today's MMOs bugs the hell out of me.


Or another thing that would be nice:  Creative classes.  I dunno if you ever heard of a game called Anarchy Online (futuristic sci-fi thing where "magic" was made of hyper-advanced nanobots, because... freaking nanobots!), but that was my OTHER favorite.  No game did character classes like that one did.  It wasnt AS skill based as CoH, but it still had some of that.  Moreso though, the classes were interesting and unique.  The most unique of all of them was the Agent.  The Agent had the unique ability to transform, for 30 minutes, into any other class in the game.  THey'd become a somewhat weaker version of that class, but would gain access to all of that class's abilities (provided they had BOUGHT them, you had to buy skills/programs, you didn't just magically get them).  You could do some very strange things with an Agent, yet they were never unbalanced despite the "do literally anything" aspect; they were very hard to use but awesome when used right.

Other games though?  Cookie-cutter ideas.  Nobody does unique classes.  But that sort of thing wasnt THAT uncommon back then.  Hell, Guild Wars 1 sure as hell did "unique", didn't it?

I could ramble on about THAT issue all day really.

Though you wanna hear about a *really* unique MMO?   There's one I consider more unique than any other:  Earth and Beyond.   That one game is the ENTIRE reason I hate EA so much.  They killed off Westwood Studios, and that game went with them.  That was possibly the angriest I"d ever been at a game company.  They've done all sorts of other crap, as have others, but that one is by far the top of the pile to me. Even moreso than the Simcity fiasco. Look that game up if you want to see what I mean.  There was nothing else like it, and there never will be.  Nobody has the skill to match that anymore.  God, I miss it.



Now as for GW2, honestly, I think alot of that "MMO for people that hate MMOs" was mostly just marketing hype.  And I have to wonder if maybe the game STARTED OUT geared towards that idea, early in development... until the devs were forcibly pushed to copy the norm more and more, because you know, players are allergic to new ideas.  So it turns into the mess it is.  That happens in development sometimes, sad as it is, and MMO development is the messiest of all.  And it's hard to blame them... selling something different is just too freaking risky now, with development costs so high.  As with every other genre, the MMO genre is in a rut, and it's going to be very hard for it to ever get out of it.

Also, the CoH servers closed down... after a very long time (it originally released JUST before WoW did)... because the game was getting a bit old, and as happens eventually with MMOs that arent freaking WoW, the player count was shrinking just too much.  But it sure did last a LONG time.  It was one of the few that actually survived the coming of WoW for more than just a short time.


 

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2016, 01:49:34 am »
Wow.  This looks like a modern MMO that isnt terrible! 

But... yes, I'm a bit put off by the fact that it's a Korean MMO due to grinding.  I usually cant tolerate grinding.   So that's unfortunate.  I guess it's not time to jump back into the genre yet after all.  Feh.

I miss the old days, when the genre wasnt awful.
I'll throw in an update on Black Desert here while you guys keep talking about GW1 and CoH:
So currently I've gotten to lv 13 in 7.5 hours according to the ingame function that describes how long your character has existed, though not because I was grinding the entire time. Mainly most of that time was me running around trying things (and soon after rebinding keys to work better), wondering how it played so well at only 30fps, trying to fish (not too difficult), finding out the game has climbing (Climbed up some rocks, on some roofs, was awesome after expecting the usual bad platforming all mmos use, even gw2 and its jumping puzzles) failing to milk several cows (minigame was harder than it seemed), stabbing things with a frankly overpowered wizard dagger (I know its a melee skill on a squishy wizard who really should just avoid getting so close because things hurt and everything else has some range to it, but 550% x2hits damage with guaranteed crit, and I can use it from the start? That is one hell of an emergency dagger.) finding all the npcs in the village and camp to complete (entirely optional but rewarding) knowledge sets, and being unimpressed by the voice acting. The last of those is ok at best.

Oh, and I have a donkey. The donkey can gain levels of its own that do...something, has its own little storage, and doesn't immediately vanish when you dismount. Doesn't feel like the last korean mmo I'd played at all, which I believe was tera. Certainly less flashy except in the spell effects, but then again almost everything is less flashy than tera.

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2016, 01:53:15 am »
so has anybody here played star wars galaxy? I wouldn't be surprised if not since its not meant to technically exist any more but I'm just curious really.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2016, 02:44:19 am »
I'll throw in an update on Black Desert here while you guys keep talking about GW1 and CoH:
So currently I've gotten to lv 13 in 7.5 hours according to the ingame function that describes how long your character has existed, though not because I was grinding the entire time. Mainly most of that time was me running around trying things (and soon after rebinding keys to work better), wondering how it played so well at only 30fps, trying to fish (not too difficult), finding out the game has climbing (Climbed up some rocks, on some roofs, was awesome after expecting the usual bad platforming all mmos use, even gw2 and its jumping puzzles) failing to milk several cows (minigame was harder than it seemed), stabbing things with a frankly overpowered wizard dagger (I know its a melee skill on a squishy wizard who really should just avoid getting so close because things hurt and everything else has some range to it, but 550% x2hits damage with guaranteed crit, and I can use it from the start? That is one hell of an emergency dagger.) finding all the npcs in the village and camp to complete (entirely optional but rewarding) knowledge sets, and being unimpressed by the voice acting. The last of those is ok at best.

Oh, and I have a donkey. The donkey can gain levels of its own that do...something, has its own little storage, and doesn't immediately vanish when you dismount. Doesn't feel like the last korean mmo I'd played at all, which I believe was tera. Certainly less flashy except in the spell effects, but then again almost everything is less flashy than tera.

So... it DOESNT play like a traditional Korean MMO?  Hm.  Might be worth checking out really.  I'll maybe look into it.  I have to stop obsessively playing SUPERHOT first though, which I picked up yesterday.  Apparently that title must be capitalized at all times.  No idea why.

so has anybody here played star wars galaxy? I wouldn't be surprised if not since its not meant to technically exist any more but I'm just curious really.

I've played it, a long time ago when it hadnt been out all that long.  It was very.... strange.  It had very, very bizarre forms of grinding.  I tell ya, running around stabbing butterflies for XP doesnt exactly feel like Star Wars.  Nor does sitting in a cantina making things on your feet (really, auto-replace?) over and over.   The class system was weird.  The combat was also weird, but kinda interesting.   I heard that later on some aspects of the game got an overhaul, but I was already out of it by then.

One big thing I do remember though:  originally you couldnt play as a Jedi at all, until someone unlocked it, which apparently was a monstrous pain in the butt.  When someone finally DID unlock it and had become one, she was CONSTANTLY hunted down and killed over and over and over and over and over again by other players.   The whole system for it just sounded so bloody stupid.   Dunno if THAT ever got fixed.

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2016, 03:08:26 am »
I'll throw in an update on Black Desert here while you guys keep talking about GW1 and CoH:
So currently I've gotten to lv 13 in 7.5 hours according to the ingame function that describes how long your character has existed, though not because I was grinding the entire time. Mainly most of that time was me running around trying things (and soon after rebinding keys to work better), wondering how it played so well at only 30fps, trying to fish (not too difficult), finding out the game has climbing (Climbed up some rocks, on some roofs, was awesome after expecting the usual bad platforming all mmos use, even gw2 and its jumping puzzles) failing to milk several cows (minigame was harder than it seemed), stabbing things with a frankly overpowered wizard dagger (I know its a melee skill on a squishy wizard who really should just avoid getting so close because things hurt and everything else has some range to it, but 550% x2hits damage with guaranteed crit, and I can use it from the start? That is one hell of an emergency dagger.) finding all the npcs in the village and camp to complete (entirely optional but rewarding) knowledge sets, and being unimpressed by the voice acting. The last of those is ok at best.

Oh, and I have a donkey. The donkey can gain levels of its own that do...something, has its own little storage, and doesn't immediately vanish when you dismount. Doesn't feel like the last korean mmo I'd played at all, which I believe was tera. Certainly less flashy except in the spell effects, but then again almost everything is less flashy than tera.

So... it DOESNT play like a traditional Korean MMO?  Hm.  Might be worth checking out really.  I'll maybe look into it.  I have to stop obsessively playing SUPERHOT first though, which I picked up yesterday.  Apparently that title must be capitalized at all times.  No idea why.

so has anybody here played star wars galaxy? I wouldn't be surprised if not since its not meant to technically exist any more but I'm just curious really.

I've played it, a long time ago when it hadnt been out all that long.  It was very.... strange.  It had very, very bizarre forms of grinding.  I tell ya, running around stabbing butterflies for XP doesnt exactly feel like Star Wars.  Nor does sitting in a cantina making things on your feet (really, auto-replace?) over and over.   The class system was weird.  The combat was also weird, but kinda interesting.   I heard that later on some aspects of the game got an overhaul, but I was already out of it by then.

One big thing I do remember though:  originally you couldnt play as a Jedi at all, until someone unlocked it, which apparently was a monstrous pain in the butt.  When someone finally DID unlock it and had become one, she was CONSTANTLY hunted down and killed over and over and over and over and over again by other players.   The whole system for it just sounded so bloody stupid.   Dunno if THAT ever got fixed.
well the funny thing is that the version I've played is maintained by a group with nothing to do with ubisoft at all after they closed the game due to wow being a thing this group took over it and you can play it with an emulator and I think you need its disk I'm not 100 percent its just that my friend who introduced me to it said I needed to and lended  me his disk I have no idea what your talking about with butterflies and auto replace I mostly just murdered jobber bandit guys near near the outskirts of the city and sold random junk to make the money I was needing more profitable than questing and much more fun the quest was either I could deliver something to a persifick point on the map(which while I found relaxing payed pittance) and a type of quest were you fought a den/hive type thing which spawned things which took FOREVER! sadly since I remember really enjoying the combat.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2016, 03:08:45 am »
I actually got into ridiculous situations with groups of players that didn't quite understand the benefits of this, because I could hold and control more enemies than the group's tank could.  One group actually kicked me because of this.  The tank was supposed to tank!  I was ruining everything!

I found the game boring after a while. It was a "beat 'em up" game and no loot to look forward to. You could only do enhancements or whatever they're called. The character designer was so advanced, and yet they couldn't follow it up with the same kind of customization through achievement. Oh, and your comment about being kicked, I get kicked several times a day on a regular basis for not following meta.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2016, 06:32:12 am »
I actually got into ridiculous situations with groups of players that didn't quite understand the benefits of this, because I could hold and control more enemies than the group's tank could.  One group actually kicked me because of this.  The tank was supposed to tank!  I was ruining everything!

I found the game boring after a while. It was a "beat 'em up" game and no loot to look forward to. You could only do enhancements or whatever they're called. The character designer was so advanced, and yet they couldn't follow it up with the same kind of customization through achievement. Oh, and your comment about being kicked, I get kicked several times a day on a regular basis for not following meta.

The Enhancements basically WERE the equipment.  They had the same functions, but allowed for more customization than usual (of the actual GAMEPLAY elements of your character).  MUCH more.  This is one of the reasons why I stuck with the game.  But, the game didn't exactly do handholding; figuring out how to really use the things was something you had to learn on your own, some players just ended up jamming them together at random.  In other MMOs you got a pre-made set of equipment, assembled it, and just wore it.  You didn't have to do extremely complex choice-making because those games tend not to do well these days if that happens (the other game that did it like this was Anarchy Online, where your character had FORTY FREAKING STATS, and... yeah, good luck figuring out how to spec yourself with equipment in THAT game.  I tell ya, you usually ended up looking utterly ridiculous, if you wanted to optimize... provided you had the knowledge to do so at all).  They also functioned as loot, as that's how you earned them.   

Normal equipment in MMOs bores the hell out of me, really.  It's been done to death, and one thing that I haaaaaaate is that usually when you get a new piece of equipment, it's like, .0000001% better than the last one.  If it's EPIC, it'll be .0000002% better.  Alot of MMOs tend to use very small stat increases.  This is dull. I preferred CoH's way very dramatically, where a "normal" enhancement provided like a 25% increase to some major stat on an ability.  And they stacked like crazy, because again, these were superheroes. When they powered up, they REALLY powered up.  Kinda had to, you're usually fighting like 6 enemies at once. You could in fact make new costumes for your character as you went along though.  But the big difference is that your new costume looked the way YOU wanted it to, not like how some developer wanted a pre-made set of armor to look.

....also I dont like covering my characters in armor to begin with.  What in the bloody hell is the point of character customization in the first place if you're drowning in metal all the time?  Never liked that.  It also removes ALL uniqueness.  People often have this idea that their character will look oh-so-cool and show off epic "achievements" if they get such and such piece of armor, but it's less epic when 50 other players around them are all wearing the same thing, since none of it in most MMOs actually takes much real skill to get; you just need time and sometimes a generic guild.

Besides, there was a different mindset for most players in CoH.  Most people werent after achievements or "trophy" items.   Nobody really cared. The devs made it extremely clear, right from the very start, that the game wasnt about that sort of thing. Taking down some horrid monstrosity WAS the "achievement".  It was a game I always viewed the same way as I view... absolutely everything else.  I dont bother going for achievements in games.  THose mean little and most are dumb anyway.  Taking down a basically impossible boss in some shmup though... now THAT has meaning to me.  Screw the fact that I have like 2% of the achievements in whatever game; the ultra-boss just went the hell down.  Satisfaction is mine, when that happens. Same with fighting games.  I *usually* have like 5% completion, and the number just hangs there, but as a rule, most opponents arent strong enough to deal with me, yet THEY may have 100% completion.  I mean, the stuff is meaningless, so I never cared.   CoH was the same way.  didn't care about epic armor or whatever.  I cared about the fact that I could go into missions made for groups, and handle them solo since I bloody well knew what I was doing.  ....which usually got me great enhancements anyway.  And satisfaction. Lots of it.


The bit with the meta though... eh, I never minded it.   I never really minded it in any MMO, really.   THAT bit is universal:  Even if you really do know what you're doing, if you dont follow The Meta, you must suck.  Hell, fighting games do that.  Dont play the character The Right Way, and you are a SCRUB.  Even if you just OBLITERATED your high-ranking pro of an opponent. 

I dont know why people view things that way in multiplayer.  If I'm getting the bloody results, then SHUT THE DAMN HELL UP and go sit in a freaking corner or something and let me keep clobbering things.  Dont just complain at me for making sure that you're NOT on fire. I always wanted to yell things like that at people, but I'm too damn polite in-game.  This is one reason I tend to solo so much.  There's just too much derp.   I tell ya though, when an MMO group DOES come together, it's pretty freaking fun, yeah?



Offline Wingflier

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #97 on: March 20, 2016, 04:44:42 pm »
Quote
hey a couple of things
1 what you say of guild wars 1 actually sounds like super fun makes me wish I could still have a go at that(I assume its not supported any more)
It's still around. Arenanet has designed their servers to support the game "forever", according to a press release a few years ago.

I'm not sure what the playerbase looks like anymore, but it's definitely still going.

You can pick it up on Steam, including any of the expansions, or you can buy it straight from their website.
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #98 on: March 20, 2016, 07:18:30 pm »
Quote
hey a couple of things
1 what you say of guild wars 1 actually sounds like super fun makes me wish I could still have a go at that(I assume its not supported any more)
It's still around. Arenanet has designed their servers to support the game "forever", according to a press release a few years ago.

I'm not sure what the playerbase looks like anymore, but it's definitely still going.

You can pick it up on Steam, including any of the expansions, or you can buy it straight from their website.
wait really?! is it still that popular a game 0_0? still looks like it should run decently ill have a go at it when I'm in the mood for it.
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #99 on: March 20, 2016, 09:08:02 pm »
hey speaking of guild wars I was just watching dodgers news video and after promptly skipping the part about the wow movie(because I don't particularly like films and wows got shitty lore) and it made me wonder if guild wars (in general although I really don't think gw 1 ever got a film) ever got a film made so did it? I'm just curious really more than anything.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #100 on: March 20, 2016, 09:52:42 pm »
Video game movies are few and mostly terrible. I'd be surprised if GW1 had a movie.

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Guild Wars 2
« Reply #101 on: March 20, 2016, 11:42:13 pm »
Video game movies are few and mostly terrible. I'd be surprised if GW1 had a movie.
true true more curious than anything not that they have to be
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