Grey Goo

[Mánagarmr]

So Grey Goo is out and I'm extremely intrigued. I'm a fan of this minimum-macro/micro, slow types of strategy games (and conversely HATE the click/spamfest that is SC2-style games). Anyone played it and can give me some kind of recommendation? I love Supreme Commander and the OLD Command&Conquer games (Tiberian Dawn/Sun).

[Coppermantis]

All I know is that I too think it's really interesting. And it's hilarious listening to the SC2 aficionados complain how "it's too slow; it'll never be an e-sport."

-_-

Thankfully, not all Starcraft fans are obsessive nutcases. It's not a bad game, but some folks need to realize that not everything has to be an e-sport.

[Shrugging Khan]

Dunnoe. I just took one look at it at wrote it off as "Meh, More Starcraft.".

Any actual reason to be interested in it?

[Wingflier]

Dang you OP, I was just about to make a post about this one.

Apparently the game hearkens back to the more C&C style of gameplay. At least that's what all the reviews have said.

Micro isn't as important as you common RTS game but obviously better micro gives you an advantage as with any RTS game ever made. I think the really distinct quality of the game though are the 3 races and how supposedly differently they are. Apparently it's a huge deal. Especially the 3rd race, the goo faction which plays in an extremely unique manner. They literally suck up their opponents.

Anyway, read some of the Steam reviews, it looks freaking awesome. Of course I'm extremely partial to any kind of RTS game as long as it's half decent simply because there are so few decent ones coming out anymore. Apparently the soundtrack is made by the guy who did the C&C series as well, and he's always made amazing music.

It's $50 which is the only thing stopping me. I'd pay $30 easy but I don't want to invest $50.

[Mánagarmr]

Dunnoe. I just took one look at it at wrote it off as "Meh, More Starcraft.".

Any actual reason to be interested in it?

Well, for one: It's nothing like Starcraft at all. It's the antithesis of Starcraft. Slow, deliberate and strategic gameplay and a minimum of micro/macro as opposed to twitch decisions, heavy emphasis on micro/macro and high APM requirements. In addition units don't have activatable abilities but are largely automated, further reducing the micro need.

[Mánagarmr]

Dang you OP, I was just about to make a post about this one.

Apparently the game hearkens back to the more C&C style of gameplay. At least that's what all the reviews have said.

Micro isn't as important as you common RTS game but obviously better micro gives you an advantage as with any RTS game ever made. I think the really distinct quality of the game though are the 3 races and how supposedly differently they are. Apparently it's a huge deal. Especially the 3rd race, the goo faction which plays in an extremely unique manner. They literally suck up their opponents.

Anyway, read some of the Steam reviews, it looks freaking awesome. Of course I'm extremely partial to any kind of RTS game as long as it's half decent simply because there are so few decent ones coming out anymore. Apparently the soundtrack is made by the guy who did the C&C series as well, and he's always made amazing music.

It's $50 which is the only thing stopping me. I'd pay $30 easy but I don't want to invest $50.

Yeah, if it wasn't for the pricetag this would've been a no brainer for me. I'm already intrigued enough, but seeing as it has it's (albeit well deserved) price tag, I'm a little bit more cautious. I love the humans too. FINALLY a game where humans aren't your bog standard "hurr durr we haf tanks hurr durr" a la WH40K style. I LOVE the idea of an advanced, esoteric and "strange" human faction. One of the reasons I loved Aeon in Supreme Commander.


Then of course, there's the Goo. That faction is just completely wild. I haven't seen enough gameplay to understand them yet, but the whole idea of growing your HP pool (growing larger) by consuming resources (and enemies!) and then splitting off into smaller parts and morphing units...is just insane. It sounds like a truly unique way to play IF they pull it off.


And I'm also extremely happy to see Zulan's Hotbuild mod make it into a real game. Been using it for SupCom for quite a while, and this game seems built around the idea, which is awesome.

[Mánagarmr]

All I know is that I too think it's really interesting. And it's hilarious listening to the SC2 aficionados complain how "it's too slow; it'll never be an e-sport."

-_-

Thankfully, not all Starcraft fans are obsessive nutcases. It's not a bad game, but some folks need to realize that not everything has to be an e-sport.

Or that things doesn't have to happen at lightning speed to be an esport... But honestly, I don't give a damn about esports. I've got Smite for that. This is a game I'm looking to have a lot of fun with and so far, it seems like I will.

[Mick]

I thought it looked interesting, but the price was way too much for something that is such an unknown, and just 15 missions.

I mean, I guess it's by the original C&C guys, which is OK and all, but I'm not really sold on nostalgia alone, I just want an awesome game.

I'll wait for reviews and a sale.

[orzelek]

I'm also waiting for some sale since it's slightly on pricey side.
If it gets good reviews I might get it sooner - but I have been disappointed in rts-es recently (planetary annihilation no single player, C&C turned into some strange clickfest).

Also Homeworld Remastered Collection is coming that might be nicer buy for next month (coming out in month and a 2 days )

[Cyborg]

I checked this out on twitch. A couple things stood out to me:


Unit variety in a real match looks low right now. Players do not seem to be compelled to create complex armies.
I did not see any large battles.
I fail to see the draw in the race variety right now. I did not see one melee unit at all in about an hour of gameplay. Lasers everywhere.
Loading multiplayer matches can be incredibly slow.


Be careful, folks. I don't think this is the RTS you are looking for.

[Aklyon]

Pretty sure Mother Goos count as melee, and I've seen plenty of those on a stream. (though I'd also been watching that one in particular in the first place because they were looking for silly things in 2v2, like Quad Alphas.)

What did you consider a Real match, Cyborg?

[Cyborg]

Pretty sure Mother Goos count as melee, and I've seen plenty of those on a stream. (though I'd also been watching that one in particular in the first place because they were looking for silly things in 2v2, like Quad Alphas.)

What did you consider a Real match, Cyborg?

1v1,2v2. Mother goo is not what I'm talking about for hand-to-hand combat.

[Wingflier]

Cyborg might be right. After reading a few official reviews I became a lot more apprehensive than I was at first glance.

http://www.pcgamer.com/grey-goo-review/

Apparently, the first two factions (human and beta) are so similar that it's difficult to even tell their units apart. Though the "Goo" faction is obviously incredibly unique, this comes as an unfortunate surprise to me. I would hope that all 3 factions would be significantly different from each other. In addition, some of the faction mechanics seem a little wonky. For example, the humans are the experts at defense BUT their entire base has to be connected to the same powergrid, and since every map only has a relatively small starting area which is surrounded by cliffs and other obstacles, keeping your bases connected to the power grid can be quite difficult if not impossible, from what I've read. All the enemy has to do is cut the power network to the new bases and they become entirely useless. Compare this to the beta and the goo which can build bases anywhere and this seems like a bit of a ridiculous mechanic. Another thing I've heard is that since the Goo basically have mobile "bases" (their units are their buildings), they can stall the game for minutes or hours while they continually replicate new units and spread them across the map making you search down each blob individually while the other blobs continue to reproduce.

Another concern I've been reading is that the game happens SLOW. Not just "no Starcraft micro" slow, slow as in 30 minutes before any of the action actually starts happening slow. Apparently it's not even possible to "rush" your opponent or to attack him head on until you have an overwhelming force, and so most of the multiplayer (from what I've read) consists of two or more people playing Sim City until they have powerful lategame armies, and the winner of that battle usually taking the game. I'm sorry but that's incredibly boring for me, especially because it typically makes some of the early game stuff kind of worthless, and like Cyborg said, the unit variety seems a little low anyway.

Many of these concerns could be addressed by the developer in subsequent patches and some of them could be completely unfounded, but given what I've read, it may not be as wonderful as it looked at first sight.

[Mánagarmr]

Wait...melee units in an RTS? Maybe I'm colored by my TotalA/SupCom background, but melee units sound like a big suicide unless it's a hulking behemoth of bajillions of HP (see Ultralisk) and even in Starcraft those are terrifyingly fast. Goo doesn't seem to be that kind of game, so the lack of melee doesn't bother me in the slightest.

As far as the gameplay, well Beta and Human are similar but I don't feel they PLAY similarly. Beta can expand wherever they freaking want, while Humans are stuck with ONE base, and a fragile one at that unless you build really cleverly. The Goo seems borderline overpowered if you are left alone by your opponent, but I can see how they would be very vulnerable to early harass (probably why the Formless Goo can defend themselves in melee). Goo also lacks ANY air power, as far as I have seen, so the key to keeping the Goo down is constant harassment, preferrably by air. But I've only played two skirmishes against the AI yet, so don't look to me for expert advice.

I dunno, the game is fun so far. But due to the lack of unit variety (there's 3 units in each class, so something like 9 units per faction) I can see the game eventually growing boring and stale. I do hope that the developers continue to balance and develop expansions. If they keep up, this game could definitely last. So far I like it a lot.

But do mind this is after just a few hours of skirmishing. And also mind that TotalBiscuit said straight up that the game has its flaws, but it's the best RTS to come out in YEARS (including Planetary Annihilation...man what a disappointment that was ) so I think it definitely has potential if cared for by the developers. Otherwise it's probably a good 20-30 hours of fun before it grows a bit stale. I'll keep play, personally. Especially the campaign, even though Skirmish and multiplayer against friends was always more my thing.

[WingedKagouti]

Another concern I've been reading is that the game happens SLOW. Not just "no Starcraft micro" slow, slow as in 30 minutes before any of the action actually starts happening slow. Apparently it's not even possible to "rush" your opponent or to attack him head on until you have an overwhelming force,

Then those people aren't playing as well as the AI. TotalBiscuit's video on the game is 38 min long and in that time he gets in 2 skirmish games (that he concedes due to being overwhelmed) and has time to go through the options menu.

My guess as to why the reviewers may say stuff like that is that they a) aren't that great at RTS games in the first place* and b) they haven't had the time to properly learn the game yet. The ones who did most work probably played through the SP campaign and then had a couple of pvp matches. That's not because they're lazy, stupid or don't care about the game, but they have to not just play the game but also take notes and then either write an article or make + edit a video on it, at least if they don't want to sound like they have no idea what they're talking about. Those things take up time and they probably have a week at most to do it and they may have other games they need to cover in that time as well.

* Due to the rarity of games being released in the genre the last couple of years. Dedicated reviewers tend to not stick with any game for that long.