Author Topic: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle  (Read 11847 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 01:58:56 pm »
Well, AIW is an RTS, to the extent that it's any one genre ;)
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Offline zespri

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Re: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2012, 02:13:57 pm »
Well, AIW is an RTS, to the extent that it's any one genre ;)
So I mentioned innovations, right? AIW is a shining example.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2012, 04:16:27 pm »
Quote
Same here. I think RTS genre is beaten to the death now. I've spent countless hours in Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 1, and Command and Conquer. It all started with Dune of course. There is simply nothing to see any more until something new is invented.
I'm a bit shocked by this.

Have you even tried Company of Heroes or Wargame?

Warcraft 3, Starcraft 1, and C&C were all somewhat similar.  They all used the same building mechanics, similar unit control mechanics, similar resource mechanics, and similar map control mechanics.  Those 3 games are much different than CoH or Wargame.

CoH and Wargame are, among other things:

1. Extremely realistic. This may not sound like much, but if all you've played are the super-fictional type games like the 3 you've mentioned, you might be surprised at how enthralling the realism aspect can be (connects you to the game).

2. Squad-based. Starcraft and WC3 were squad-based in some ways, but only to a superficial degree.  Company of Heroes is completely squad-based, so much so that it is impossible to remove your units from a squad; everything operates under squads.  Wargame gives you more flexibility in this area, but in the same sense, moving any unit on its own typically ends with disastrous consequences.  It's realistic in that no units are heroes, you've gotta keep your army in small groups to succeed.

3. Resources are territory-based. Starcraft, Warcraft, and C&C all based their resources on minerals, which you start by, and can even expand to by only moving a few feet usually.  This creates, in many ways, boring, defensive, and stagnant gameplay, which often boils down to victory or defeat being decided by a few major key battles (no reason to fight before that, since you can't cripple your opponent's economy; unless you're a really good player).

Resources in CoH and Wargame are handled much differently than in the games you've mentioned.  You gain resources by holding points on the map, so there are constant battles and territorial disputes which makes the gameplay much more active and engaging than in mineral-based resource games.

In addition, CoH has a REALLY cool "promotion" mechanic which lets you specialize in a certain field (so like Infantry, Armor, or Airborne), and get unique bonuses/call in reinforcements based on your specialization (like paratroopers or an airstrike); it's really neat.

Wargame has the full-map zoom feature, which doesn't sound like much, but is a glaring flaw of the 3 games you mentioned.  Being able to observe and give commands from a full-battlefield perspective really changes the experience and the level of control you have over the game.

These are just a few things I could mention off the top of my head  that are massively different between the games we're discussing here, and the one's you've played.

Comparing Red Alert to Company of Heroes is like comparing Zelda to Diablo 2.  Yeah, I guess they're both RPGs, but if you think they're even remotely the same you're sorely mistaken.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2012, 11:27:23 pm »
I like RTS's, but not when they begin to border on twitch-based (SC2 really is this), and I don't really like the base-building aspect of many modern RTS's (again like SC2).

That's why I liked the Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far game, and would love another one like it. If some troops died, the rest in the squad might cower instead of fighting, or just flat out retreat. As they get shot at they would normally just get pinned down. Occasionally one would go berserk and charge to single-handedly wipe out an enemy squad. Or the tense game of having to use infantry to take down tanks by hiding and waiting for them to pass or sneaking flamethrower guys up onto groups of enemies. It was fun times.

Offline zespri

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Re: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2012, 11:33:28 pm »
I played Dawn of War and SupCom so I know what both territory based resources and global map view look like. They did not impressed me all that much. I mean, it IS an improvement over these old-style rts I've listed, but I would not call it ground breaking.

I never played either CoH or wargame, however I got the THQ bundle just because I could not resist the price (it's a bit stupid, because the games in the bundle per se do not interest me that much, but knowing the current value of the games, I just could not pass this up - I hope the boys will enjoy at least some of these). So I walked through the CoH tutorial yesterday.

The realism thing does not buy me because I'm very anti-war. I know how many lives WW2 has taken and I simply do not enjoy war theme. This was a primary reason why I did not try CoH before. I mean there is nothing wrong with a lot of people enjoying it - I get that - it's just I personally very much put off by the real-life war theme and ww2 in particular is one of the least enjoyable topics for me.

The resources thing - as I explained before, it's different and it's better, but it's still you good old RTS. I can't really comment about squad-based thingy as again I don't see this as making a lot of difference. Yes some unit management became a bit easier but that's about it. May be I'm just missing something.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 11:37:06 pm by zespri »

Offline madcow

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Re: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2012, 11:48:38 pm »
Not every genre appeals to everybody, no shame in a type of game just not being for somebody really.

Offline zespri

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Re: Company of Heroes 2 vs. Wargame: Airland Battle
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2012, 12:07:33 am »
To be clear - i love rts =) It's just there were no big changes in the genre during last decade