Author Topic: Fallout 4  (Read 5097 times)

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2015, 11:52:09 am »
Hnnnrghh....stop. using. metacritic.

I tell people that one all the time.

Nobody ever listens though.
I mean, to be fair, the Steam user reviews aren't much better. Of the top 20 reviews I'd say 75% of them are brutal.

A user review is a user review, who cares if it's on metacritic, steam, or a sequence of toilet paper squares a la V for Vendetta. It's not like the medium changes the message.
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2015, 12:06:47 pm »
Yes, but if people stop pointing at metacritic, it might be less dumb. Or at least much less important.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2015, 12:09:15 pm »
Hnnnrghh....stop. using. metacritic.

I tell people that one all the time.

Nobody ever listens though.
I mean, to be fair, the Steam user reviews aren't much better. Of the top 20 reviews I'd say 75% of them are brutal.

A user review is a user review, who cares if it's on metacritic, steam, or a sequence of toilet paper squares a la V for Vendetta. It's not like the medium changes the message.

It's not the word content that's the problem, it's the flawed Metacritic rating that game companies and people use to decide whether a game is good or not. (For some publishers, one number above or below 80 could decide whether the developers get a bonus or fired. At least, that used to be the case, unsure if it is anymore). Because what could possibly be wrong with using a rating that takes a bunch of other ratings (that don't use a standard) decides what their rating really is and then gives their own rating.

Yeah, nothing wrong with that. /sarcasm

At least Steam uses a single system and decides the overall rating from up or down recommendations. It's not perfect but its a far cry better than Metacritic ever was.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 12:12:36 pm by KingIsaacLinksr »
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2015, 12:17:57 pm »
I rather like to look at single reviews instead of an overall score of the game. It gives you a better overview because a lot of people just overreact when it comes to games.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2015, 12:33:55 pm »
Uh, who really cares about the critic reviews of games anymore? Half of these companies or websites are paid off, or are expected to give a specific review lest they upset their emotionally-fragile fanbase.

The link I gave at the beginning was a fantastic example of that. The critics said one thing, the users said something entirely different. If you're going to metacritic to base your opinion of the game on critic reviews, then yes, you deserve everything you get. Otherwise, it's a good source of user reviews.

Furthermore, I don't know if I can think of a single example offhand where the user reviews of a game led me astray. Typically, if it's getting glowing reviews from the users, it's a good game. If it's getting bad reviews, it's a bad game. There are some cases where the game may just not be your taste (like Dragon Age 1 for me, or the Sandbox RPG type), but that has little to do with the quality of the game itself.
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2015, 12:45:08 pm »
Uh, who really cares about the critic reviews of games anymore? Half of these companies or websites are paid off, or are expected to give a specific review lest they upset their emotionally-fragile fanbase.

The link I gave at the beginning was a fantastic example of that. The critics said one thing, the users said something entirely different. If you're going to metacritic to base your opinion of the game on critic reviews, then yes, you deserve everything you get. Otherwise, it's a good source of user reviews.

Furthermore, I don't know if I can think of a single example offhand where the user reviews of a game led me astray. Typically, if it's getting glowing reviews from the users, it's a good game. If it's getting bad reviews, it's a bad game. There are some cases where the game may just not be your taste (like Dragon Age 1 for me, or the Sandbox RPG type), but that has little to do with the quality of the game itself.
pretty much agree with you it hardly takes an official title to see weather a game is worth purchasing or not although I usually don't look at reviews/first impressions unless I'm really rather unsure about a persifick game.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2015, 01:50:48 pm »
I'm one of those that doesn't get the hype of the Bethesda games. Sure it's an open world with tons to explore but I always thought the gameplay itself (combat, quests, etc) to be very not fun.  It felt like tons of hours of gameplay, but gameplay that wasn't particularly deep or compelling.  It's just not really my style of game, and after several attempts to get into them I just stay away now.

On the other side of the spectrum of rpg games is Undertale. Which to me is probably my game of the year and is pretty much the opposite of an open world Bethesda game.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2015, 01:51:35 pm »
Uh, who really cares about the critic reviews of games anymore?

Lots of people do since reviewers still exist. They wouldn't exist without people watching/reading them, as that's how they make money.

The link I gave at the beginning was a fantastic example of that. The critics said one thing, the users said something entirely different. If you're going to metacritic to base your opinion of the game on critic reviews, then yes, you deserve everything you get. Otherwise, it's a good source of user reviews.

Critics and users often don't agree. Especially when it comes to long-running series. People have different opinions. Hell, I've gotten flak for my negative reviews on Legend of Grimrock 2 (I think 8 out of 24 (33%) found it helpful), Witcher 1, Defense Grid 2 and so forth. Usually by people who can't handle reasonable criticism of their favorite product. And the reverse can be true as well: if you base your opinion of a game on user reviews, then you're going to get burned sooner or later. I'm surprised you haven't by now but I guess you've gotten lucky. Me, not so much. That's why I usually combine certain reviewers/first impressionists with user reviews to decide if I'm going to look at a game or not. It works. Most of the time.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 01:55:32 pm by KingIsaacLinksr »
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Offline madcow

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2015, 01:54:47 pm »
On the subject of reviews. In this day and age the best basis is gameplay videos, as that'll give you a good idea on the game. I also have a few trusted reviewers whose style of game I know.  Random reviews by random people are not generally all that helpful.

Offline Misery

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2015, 06:56:03 pm »
On the subject of reviews. In this day and age the best basis is gameplay videos, as that'll give you a good idea on the game. I also have a few trusted reviewers whose style of game I know.  Random reviews by random people are not generally all that helpful.

Definitely.

I never, ever, EVER trust places like Metacritic.  Ever.  I tried trusting those for awhile.  It went downhill and derpy fast.  But video reviews?  Let some youtuber (or whatever, if you're on a different site) you actually trust just outright SHOW you the game while they talk about it, rather than listen to a bunch of damn arbitrary scores.  The fact that alot of such videos arent structured as normal "review" vids can often enhance this.

But random users?  No.  Metacritic can be influenced by people that post negatively because a problem THEY caused made it so that the game didn't run very well.   I mean, really, that's.... pretty sad.  Or they can just outright make it up, even.  And this is the freaking internet.  Of COURSE there are those that make it up.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2015, 11:47:06 am »
Like many things in life, interpreting reviews is a skill. It's a matter of not reading too many nor too few. Not placing a singular importance on one, but noticing patterns and repetitions of pros and cons. Of knowing when to discard what is likely a personal opinion and when to notice what is a likely fact. And most importantly synthesizing this data to YOUR needs, for only YOU know which things you need, which things you must avoid, and which features you don't care about. This goes not just for games but for anything. I have become legendary among my friends for my ability to pick out new restaurants reading reviews because I take their needs and read between the lines of the restaurant reviews.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2015, 07:24:59 pm »

Like many things in life, interpreting reviews is a skill. It's a matter of not reading too many nor too few. Not placing a singular importance on one, but noticing patterns and repetitions of pros and cons. Of knowing when to discard what is likely a personal opinion and when to notice what is a likely fact. And most importantly synthesizing this data to YOUR needs, for only YOU know which things you need, which things you must avoid, and which features you don't care about. This goes not just for games but for anything. I have become legendary among my friends for my ability to pick out new restaurants reading reviews because I take their needs and read between the lines of the restaurant reviews.


Legendary eh?


But anyway, the best thing you can do is look at videos. Then you can see if the gameplay mechanics are going to be pleasing or not. Because that's what it comes down to. For example, let's look at the RPS review for fallout.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/12/fallout-4-pc-review/


This is unreadable. Someone trying to grasp how the game plays out has to parse the personal interplay between the authors to get at what the mechanics are. Not to mention the hyperbole. I can't get over the fact that for a lot of these review sites, many of the authors are cynical assholes that have played so many games, they can't enjoy them anymore because everything becomes derivative or reminds them of something else. In many cases, the comments section is better than the article for trying to determine whether a game is fun or not.


RPS has the added difficulty of activist journalism, where they try to push socially acceptable ideas and artsy concepts, which makes it even harder to find fun games from what they write. I wish we had a gaming website that was just about fun games. I don't want to hear about depression, death, trauma, etc. when it comes to games. They can be in the game- realistic characters are great- but I'm not going to have a fun time playing half the games they review. Gamergate really exposed a lot of the journalism issues among gaming websites. I don't agree with the harassment angle of that whole controversy, but it shined a bright light on gaming journalism corruption.


For me, I have played countless games. For something to keep my interest, it's got to have a challenging mechanism to engage my mind and/or a great story. It's similar to the same way that chess can keep my interest 27 years later. I'm enjoying Batman Arkham Knight right now because the story is great, and the gameplay has a lot of variety. I'm feeling creativity with certain missions, and the ones that don't feel like that, I don't do (such as the Riddler racing missions. I did the first one but those suck). I find it hard to be amused by single player twitch games unless it has a good story (multiplayer has a chance precisely because humans offer better AI).


Looks like I wandered off the path in this discussion. But yeah, summarized, gameplay is what keeps you playing a game. Articles can only be secondary these days. If you know any good gaming journalism websites, please share them here.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2015, 08:26:12 pm »

Like many things in life, interpreting reviews is a skill. It's a matter of not reading too many nor too few. Not placing a singular importance on one, but noticing patterns and repetitions of pros and cons. Of knowing when to discard what is likely a personal opinion and when to notice what is a likely fact. And most importantly synthesizing this data to YOUR needs, for only YOU know which things you need, which things you must avoid, and which features you don't care about. This goes not just for games but for anything. I have become legendary among my friends for my ability to pick out new restaurants reading reviews because I take their needs and read between the lines of the restaurant reviews.


Legendary eh?


But anyway, the best thing you can do is look at videos. Then you can see if the gameplay mechanics are going to be pleasing or not. Because that's what it comes down to. For example, let's look at the RPS review for fallout.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/12/fallout-4-pc-review/


This is unreadable. Someone trying to grasp how the game plays out has to parse the personal interplay between the authors to get at what the mechanics are. Not to mention the hyperbole. I can't get over the fact that for a lot of these review sites, many of the authors are cynical assholes that have played so many games, they can't enjoy them anymore because everything becomes derivative or reminds them of something else. In many cases, the comments section is better than the article for trying to determine whether a game is fun or not.


RPS has the added difficulty of activist journalism, where they try to push socially acceptable ideas and artsy concepts, which makes it even harder to find fun games from what they write. I wish we had a gaming website that was just about fun games. I don't want to hear about depression, death, trauma, etc. when it comes to games. They can be in the game- realistic characters are great- but I'm not going to have a fun time playing half the games they review. Gamergate really exposed a lot of the journalism issues among gaming websites. I don't agree with the harassment angle of that whole controversy, but it shined a bright light on gaming journalism corruption.


For me, I have played countless games. For something to keep my interest, it's got to have a challenging mechanism to engage my mind and/or a great story. It's similar to the same way that chess can keep my interest 27 years later. I'm enjoying Batman Arkham Knight right now because the story is great, and the gameplay has a lot of variety. I'm feeling creativity with certain missions, and the ones that don't feel like that, I don't do (such as the Riddler racing missions. I did the first one but those suck). I find it hard to be amused by single player twitch games unless it has a good story (multiplayer has a chance precisely because humans offer better AI).


Looks like I wandered off the path in this discussion. But yeah, summarized, gameplay is what keeps you playing a game. Articles can only be secondary these days. If you know any good gaming journalism websites, please share them here.

Legendary may be a bit hyperbole, but I do have a side show in my tourist town of coordinating trips for newcomers to my area when they are on vacation. Makes a quite a bit of extra money and is very enjoyable.

Part of why I only read user reviews and not "professional" ones is precisely because of the bias that is pushed as you described very well. The corruption and other nasty things are simply a turn off and I think hurts the industry as a whole.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2015, 10:24:00 pm »
One of the problems of watching video reviews is that the video portion of it can be deceiving.

The Battlefront reboot is one of the most popular games on the market right now, and there's tons of streaming of it all over Twitch from several of the most popular and successful streamers. They have mostly good things to say about it.

Looking only at the video and audio footage of it, one could reach the conclusion that the game is an amazing, authentic, Star Wars FPS experience. It's certainly entertaining to watch others play from time to time.

However, when you read the user reviews on Metacritic, for example, you get a very different impression of the game than what some of the video footage and reviews may have shown you.
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Fallout 4
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2015, 05:01:06 pm »
One of the problems of watching video reviews is that the video portion of it can be deceiving.

The Battlefront reboot is one of the most popular games on the market right now, and there's tons of streaming of it all over Twitch from several of the most popular and successful streamers. They have mostly good things to say about it.

Looking only at the video and audio footage of it, one could reach the conclusion that the game is an amazing, authentic, Star Wars FPS experience. It's certainly entertaining to watch others play from time to time.

However, when you read the user reviews on Metacritic, for example, you get a very different impression of the game than what some of the video footage and reviews may have shown you.

My impression of those user reviews is that a lot of them are complaining this isn't the same Battlefront that the older games were. Of which they are right from what I've heard. That being said, is anyone surprised that its not the same Battlefront? There also seems to be problems with the business model, being that the season pass seems to be more or less required for the optimal content experience. But as for the base-game itself, it seems to be quite good.

It's an EA game. They frankly haven't impressed me with any of their releases since Mass Effect 2 which has made my personal ban of Origin titles incredibly easy.
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