Eve gets greedy

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Correct me if I am wrong, but can't one already buy an advantage by buying lots of PLEX with real money and then selling it?  I think that now, it's just a bit more direct.

I'm fairly sure a rather large number of people don't pay to play the game anymore, but just buy lots of PLEX to extend their subscription.

No.  Plex doesn't equal the new system.  Plexes ultimately get you isk, but since it is a traded unit within Eve, the players "control" how much isk plexes give people.  This means that someone gets something for trading plexes.  Whether it is more game time or more isk.  With the new system, CCP gets $$, the players get a shiny new toy and it creates something out of nothing.  Unlike the other system that is purely trading.  

Hold on, grabbing a wiki link:

Pilot License Extension (PLEX) is an item that adds 30 days of game time to your EVE Online account. It can be converted from any game time code and, like any other item, it can be traded on the EVE market.
Why use PLEX?
PLEX

PLEX offers an alternative way for people to pay for their subscription without the use of our more conventional payment methods. Using PLEX, pilots can earn game time simply by playing EVE.

The PLEX system improves on the current method of secure time code trading since it uses the EVE market to nerf price fixing. And since you can only sell time codes to people who want to play for that time, the system is capped.  <-- Important part as this is what really makes it different from the other system which has no cap or limit. 

PLEX is for everyone.

PLEX can be used by players regardless of the type of account they have. When you activate a PLEX, the extra time is added to your account immediately. In this respect, PLEX works exactly like a prepaid game time code.

    If you are currently using a Trial account, your account is converted to a paying account and the 30 days are added onto the remaining days left in your trial period.
    If you have a recurring subscription, the 30 days are added onto your account and billing resumes as normal after that time.
    If you use game time codes to pay for EVE, PLEX adds days to your game time in exactly the same way.

What else can PLEX be used for?

    Players can perform Character Transfer with PLEX
    Players can perform Portrait Swap with PLEX

Hope this clarifies.  

King

[Orelius]

Ah, I see.  So the problem is not being able to get benefits by paying, but being able to bypass the in-game economy and the many levels of trade that would normally be required in order to get the high-class stuff.

So, I take it that people think that this will destroy the economic structure of eve?

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Ah, I see.  So the problem is not being able to get benefits by paying, but being able to bypass the in-game economy and the many levels of trade that would normally be required in order to get the high-class stuff.

So, I take it that people think that this will destroy the economic structure of eve?

Its not just the economy they are worried about, but the effect on the sandbox of Eve.  If you can acquire something with no skillpoints but a lot of cash, this ruins Eve for a lot of players since Eve is built on a single shard and has a history and balance.  Of course, had CCP not been so smug/cloak and dagger about this and maybe explained their intentions, we wouldn't have had such a community meltdown that led to 200+ pages of rage.  But for some reason, they devs/managers went really shady on everyone and it caused a panic. 

King

[Mánagarmr]

Just checked the "people that are leaving" monitoring list. It's up to over 4000 accounts now.

List: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AtUHbyNk0JSGdHR1TDhrRVhhQTUzLUMyVTNZdjJUaHc&output=html

[quickstix]

who's 'Mittens'?

Current chair of csm6 and head of Goonswarm Federation/Waffe. Very smart guy too.

The prominent issue with non-vanity cash items is the 'Thin Air' problem. Someone on Kugu sets it out very well.

Originally Posted by

Some example scenarios:

Player sells a PLEX to inject ISK into his wallet:

    Player 1 purchases a PLEX for $. He then sells it on the market (or trade/contract, mechanism of sale is irrelevant).
    Player 2 purchases the PLEX with ISK, which he obtained through some in game method (Ratting, scamming, skimming from alliance moon goo etc.).
    Player 2 loses the ISK and gains 30 days of subscription time.
    Player 1 gains this ISK.
    Player 1 buys ships and mods on the market.


In this situation CCP get paid for the subscription time no matter who ends up with the PLEX and ISK is transferred from one player to another. No new goods are added into the economy. The goods Player 1 purchases still need to go through the player mining/production chain.

The goods are also subject to normal market conditions and game mechanics (eg: drop rates of meta/complex/faction gear).


Player buys PLEX and converts it into a ship from the micro transaction store.

    Player 1 obtains PLEX through X method.
    He then purchases a ship through the in game micro transaction store.
    The ship is created "out of thin air" and given to the player with no mechanism for limiting supply.


The first thing you may notice is the severe lack of a "Player 2". There is no other player interaction. EVE's mining/production chain is bypassed completely.

The other thing to question is "How does the ship get to you"? Let's just guess it would be where ever you purchase it. Which also means bypassing the entire logistical community of EVE too.

Forget risking Jump Freighters getting your gear to deployment. It's far more efficient to convert your ISK into PLEX/Aurum and have it created out of thin air at the deployment system.

[BobTheJanitor]

who's 'Mittens'?

Current chair of csm6 and head of Goonswarm Federation/Waffe. Very smart guy too.
 

Oh, so the Mittani. See, I would have known that, Goonswarm is who I played with last time I played. But then he gets a silly nickname on top of his other name. It just furthers my theory that Eve players try to be as obscure and confusing to outsiders as possible. 

[Ozymandiaz]

Been playing EVE for 3 years now, but the recent leaks and attitudes by CCP shows me that they no longer care about their players, only care for how much money they can extract from them. And some internal reviews apparently talks about that they are more eager to appease the investors then the players. ( http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm )

EVE was doing well with its subscriptions already. "Golden Goose" as someone in CCP called it. Now they are strangling the goose for more juice, but it might just kill it.

Thing is, I was somewhat OK wiht the PLEX thing, it was part counter to the RMT going on, and part giving CCP some more cash. Also helping the low on RL cash guys to play. Kind of a lesser evil that had come to be tolerated. So there was no real need to implement a new paywall for these new items. Only reason is to extract more money from the player base. You could already get a PEX and sell it, then get the new items.

Some may argue that it changes little for the avarage user, and they are somewhat right. But that is not the issue really. The issue is that now someone must pay RL cash for the items to be unlocked. PLEX used to go to gametime only, now it goes to gametime and items. Some items are no longer obtainable with pure in-game means.

This highlights CCPs attitude that they want to milk the players for more money, and the shadow of "Pay to Win" items is lurking in the shadows after seeing CCP's response and leaks.

Worse is the condecending way CCP is communicating to the players. Thats just not good form. They could take a lesson or several from Arcen.

Topping this off, is the quite frakly ridiculous prices on the new items in the MT store. Some items needs 4 PLEX to unlock. 70$ for an in game monocle, while the same ammount of PLEX can get you 4 months play time, or approx 1.4 Billion in game ISK. I find it insulting.

All in all I feel betrayed by CCP, but I am not surprised. The quality of the last expansions in EVE has been less then stellar, with new features abandoned and half done. I was willing to live in the hopes a little while, but now... I am tempted to remove all my accounts in EVE. I was already having a downtime period in EVE and getting back to it now... I dunno. I will not jump ship quite yet, will see how they handle the situation first.

[Echo35]

I was completely okay with PLEX, as it really seemed to me like a way to mitigate "gold farming" found in other certain MMO's that I won't name. This recent stuff with micro transactions though. I HATE micro transactions, even when they are nothing but flair, but when that flair is $70, that's just special.

[BobTheJanitor]

Honestly I hardly care about eve any more. I thought it was beautiful, but what I wanted was MMO Freelancer, what I got was spreadsheets with stars. However, I was vaguely looking forward to the Vampire MMO, still hoping it was going to be kind of like multiplayer Vampire: bloodlines. It looks like if it ever comes out it's going to be 50 dollar vampire pants. Sigh.

[Cyborg]

Honestly I hardly care about eve any more. I thought it was beautiful, but what I wanted was MMO Freelancer, what I got was spreadsheets with stars. However, I was vaguely looking forward to the Vampire MMO, still hoping it was going to be kind of like multiplayer Vampire: bloodlines. It looks like if it ever comes out it's going to be 50 dollar vampire pants. Sigh.

What is multiplayer vampire MMO?

Eclipse has ruined everything vampire for me. I can't even go near that genre anymore. So tired of vampires.

[Nalgas]

I was completely okay with PLEX, as it really seemed to me like a way to mitigate "gold farming" found in other certain MMO's that I won't name. This recent stuff with micro transactions though. I HATE micro transactions, even when they are nothing but flair, but when that flair is $70, that's just special.

That's pretty much how I feel, too.  I thought the PLEX system was a pretty reasonable solution, all things considered, compared to the crap that's gone on in other games, but this is just a load of crap.

[BobTheJanitor]

What is multiplayer vampire MMO?

Eclipse has ruined everything vampire for me. I can't even go near that genre anymore. So tired of vampires.

Pretend those horrible novels don't exist and the rest of your life will be happier, trust me.

The Vampire MMO we don't know much about, they're keeping it pretty quiet. Vampire: Bloodlines was an awesome game that was unfortunately ruined at release by being pushed out the door full of bugs, shortly before the developer folded. Since then some fan patches have taken care of the problems and shined it up to be almost as good as it deserves to be. It's a sort of an 3rd person melee and/or FPS RPG with a very good story and some fantastic voice acting. It's based off the White Wolf old World of Darkness universe of vampires (which won't make any sense if you're not a pen and paper RPG nerd, but trust me, it's a fun world ripe for all kinds of storytelling).

White Wolf was swallowed by CCP and they're supposed to be making an MMO also based on the old WoD setting... but now I'm afraid that it's just going to be terrible, assuming CCP can even survive this current mess they've created.

[Echo35]

White Wolf was swallowed by CCP and they're supposed to be making an MMO also based on the old WoD setting... but now I'm afraid that it's just going to be terrible, assuming CCP can even survive this current mess they've created.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-27-eve-online-in-crisis-article

There's also a big old thread on the EvE Online forums of people who have unsubscribed due to this mess. So far it's about 4,500. I'd count myself among them, but I got tired of that game a while ago. I want to like it, I honestly do, but CCP seems to be trying their hardest to keep me away.

[Ozymandiaz]

Honestly I hardly care about eve any more. I thought it was beautiful, but what I wanted was MMO Freelancer, what I got was spreadsheets with stars. However, I was vaguely looking forward to the Vampire MMO, still hoping it was going to be kind of like multiplayer Vampire: bloodlines. It looks like if it ever comes out it's going to be 50 dollar vampire pants. Sigh.

I agree. I wanted a cool wod mmo as well, but now that i see the plans ccp has for it i think i will stay away.

As for eve, i kinda wanted a freelancer multi as well. But i have played the part of low sec pirate for a long while, and recently helped build a 0.0 alliance. The former was easier and more fun, but the latter is not too bad either, but a higher degree of spreadsheets

[Mánagarmr]

Epic necro:

Nice to see that CCP did a full on 180 degree turn and are refocusing heavily on EVE. The protests definitely worked! The Crucible expansion has, so far, been absolutely stellar and the talks about what's coming this summer is having me salivating. Color me happy.