Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)

[tombik]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/242680/discussions/0/357284767249016908/ hey so there seem to be some people who for some bizarre think the game is unpolished do you think they've actually got a point there? personally I really really really don't see were there coming from at all.

I agree with that. Score tables still does not work properly for example. And for me this one is a must, since I just play dailies and see how well did I do.

[Wingflier]

I'm kind of torn on that as well. I definitely think it feels like a finished game, but if I remember they were promising more features that we'll probably never see now (one that comes to mind is 4 player co-op). I mean let's be real, I have like 250 hours with it and I paid a measly $12 so nobody can say I didn't get my money's worth.

However, there are still some bugs, crashes, and problems that I would like to see fixed before they completely give up on it forever. As an example, Sleepcycles was playing a run with Robot just a couple weeks ago and the game crashed right before an important boss fight. That kind of thing happens enough that it should be addressed, especially given the fact that it's a bloody roguelike, and you can't reload a save or whatever to make up for lost progress.

It seems like it just takes them foreeeeeveeerrrr to update/fix anything with that game, and it's just a few megabytes in size. Perhaps I'm just so used to the speed and efficiency in which Arcen updates things that I expect too much from other developers.

But anyway, I'd also like to see the source of that Steam discussion post in which Vlambeer specifically said they were done with content updates for the game. I don't see that anywhere on their website, blog, or the Steam updates page so I'm skeptical.

[Mánagarmr]

This thread is rapidly rising the ranks and moving towards one of the most posted in threads of the Arcen forums. Just saying ^^

[Misery]

They never said they were done with content updates.

That being said, I don't think it MATTERS.

One of the reasons why the game is often seen as unfinished or unpolished is because Vlambeer themselves are EXTREMELY bad at making fixes and/or changes.  You know how, with Arcen's games, things tend to get fixed right away, and the devs will gladly rip out entire mechanics and put different things in if they see that as the thing to do?  Vlambeer is the polar opposite of that.  They ABSOLUTELY WILL allow a problem to just sit there and fester FOR OVER A DAMN YEAR despite nearly non-stop complaints.  And that's DURING development.  After release?  They barely touch it.

Seriously, I've done lots of testing for lots of indie developers, and in general just watched the different styles of many.... there isn't even one that I consider worse at dealing with fixes/changes than Vlambeer.  I've never seen another one ignore hyper-obvious problems for as long as they do.

Also.... I think one issue is their own skill with the game.  What I've seen of them playing it is, well... they're really bad at it.  So I think they often don't see problems being there because they think "well it's just hard, that's all it is".  So when there's a balance issue, even if it's freaking colossal, it's not REALLY a balance issue, they say. 

I mean honestly, it's irritating.  I got so fed up with it at one point that I ended up posting this long, scathing review of the game (thumbs definitely down, yep) as a result, which constantly pointed out "Yep, this thing over here?  Broken.  Know how long it's been broken? MONTHS.  Know when it'll get fixed?  NEVER.  Oh, but they'll add even more sound effects in!".    ....no, seriously, half of the damn updates where people expected fixes during development, even near the very end, ended up just being piles of new unnecessary sound effects.  I don't remember when it happened but I eventually just stopped looking at the damn patch notes each time, and would just sift through multiple patch notes every few patches to see if I'd somehow not noticed a change in-game.   All I never noticed was more damn sound effects.    ....really, I don't get what it is with them and sound effects. 

Just.... uuugh.   They never fixed the many problems with Lil' Hunter's fight (despite this being THE most complained about thing in the entire game for over a year), the Palace spawn problems, they've got the Crown system being all bizarre and feeling unfinished (talk about a missed opportunity), secret levels that have no damn POINT (oh, they had time to GIVE them a point; they just didn't) and just all sorts of design/balance problems that never even got looked at, let alone dealt with.  It's like they're allergic to changes, because when they made a mistake, it wasn't going anywhere for a long time, if at all.   Usually the only excuse people have for that one when defending them is "Well they're only a couple of guys, they cant move that fast!".     Facepalms occur.


Bah.


There, that's the end of that rant for now.   I hope nobody was hurt.

[Misery]

This thread is rapidly rising the ranks and moving towards one of the most posted in threads of the Arcen forums. Just saying ^^

I like to think I had a hand in this.

You're welcome.

[crazyroosterman]

This thread is rapidly rising the ranks and moving towards one of the most posted in threads of the Arcen forums. Just saying ^^

I like to think I had a hand in this.

You're welcome.

and you know what the best part is? we actually managed to stay on topic for once! despite my attempts at derailing it! sure we've been talking about nt as well but gengeon never got forgotten about so I say bravo to you and wingflier for keeping this thread on topic! now the dev thing yea I remember you mentioning the whole borked spawn thing and I remember it made me decide not to touch and then of course this thread came along and I was like HEY THAT SOUNDS SUPER DOPE! AND WAY FUNNER THEN GUNGEON! he
but I don't usually support bad developers but it sounds to me that they do care about the game there just well.......a bit dumb.

ps I really hope that crystal palace spawning high ginks don't put me of powering through the rest of the game

pps  funny thing is I haven't encountered a single one of the technical issues people are griping about but it sounds like this game going open source would do it a lot of good if the devs cant/won't consistently deal with these problems.

[Wingflier]

If the game went open source the community could fix most of the major problems/bugs within a few weeks. But like Misery said, some developers are just weird about this stuff.

There has been a bug in there since it was released in 2 player co-op, if the 'Rhino Skin' mutation is chosen, which would give each player 4 extra health permanently. However, if either player DIES, when they respawn they go back down to their base health (usually 8.), which means that the mutation essentially becomes completely useless because it's no longer working. It can happen to either player or both players, if they die at a different times. Given that my friend's favorite character is Melting, this is a pretty game-breaking bug and it's frustrating that it wasn't caught.

So I posted in the forums...no response. Then I e-mailed Vlambeer directly...no response. And here we are like 4 months later. Looking at the patch notes I can assume it was never addressed, though I admit I haven't personally tested it out to see if they did fix it. I'm going to lean towards no.

edit: Found this huge bug thread.

[Misery]

Yeah, I don't even post in the Steam forums or anywhere about the game anymore.  I'm convinced that they spend next to no time actually reading ANYTHING on there, just because they seem THAT averse to feedback.

I mean, I certainly respect their talent overall, but that's an aspect about it they seriously could learn some more about to improve.


On a side note, Gungeon, I'm pretty convinced that the Dragun is quite a bit easier than the bosses that appear a bit earlier.  The thing almost seems like it needs a bit of a buff, it's supposed to be one of the final bosses in the game.

The FIRST time I did that fight, it was kinda like that, but as I had the Super Meat Gun at the time, I figured "Well some of the lack of difficulty is probably because I have this gun".   I didn't have that this time though.

Second time though.... nope, didn't have that.  Still only got hit once.  Didn't have all that much trouble with area 5 as a whole really, used the Luxin gun for much of it (I think that's what it's called). 

Seems like that area should be a bit tougher.

[crazyroosterman]

Yeah, I don't even post in the Steam forums or anywhere about the game anymore.  I'm convinced that they spend next to no time actually reading ANYTHING on there, just because they seem THAT averse to feedback.

I mean, I certainly respect their talent overall, but that's an aspect about it they seriously could learn some more about to improve.


On a side note, Gungeon, I'm pretty convinced that the Dragun is quite a bit easier than the bosses that appear a bit earlier.  The thing almost seems like it needs a bit of a buff, it's supposed to be one of the final bosses in the game.

The FIRST time I did that fight, it was kinda like that, but as I had the Super Meat Gun at the time, I figured "Well some of the lack of difficulty is probably because I have this gun".   I didn't have that this time though.

Second time though.... nope, didn't have that.  Still only got hit once.  Didn't have all that much trouble with area 5 as a whole really, used the Luxin gun for much of it (I think that's what it's called). 

Seems like that area should be a bit tougher.

sigh it always depresses me when developers don't listen to feed back especially in cases like this game were the game it self is actually super sick.

[crazyroosterman]

 just a couple of things

1 I've come to realise that my favourite weapon class is the bolt and explosive class mainly because of the very skill shotty nature of them although the times I've enviably killed my self with an explosion always make me want to head but the nearest wall but that happens very rarely these days

now my least favourite is the energy weapon class not because I don't like class as a whole but because the only variant I ever got consistently of it is  the energy pistol which I personally hate

2 I really wish I could choose to start with a different weapon than  the revolver now while I appreciate that it dosent like crap it just makes the start of the game feel like a bit of a bore at times.

[Wingflier]

Fear not, you don't have to start the game with just a pistol.

Here's a guide on how to unlock Golden Weapons on your characters.

[crazyroosterman]

Fear not, you don't have to start the game with just a pistol.

Here's a guide on how to unlock Golden Weapons on your characters.

holy shit I completely forgot about that after I unlocked illuminati man I guess on my next sessions ill have to make a special effort to keep doing that provided you can use the gold weapons from the start as I'm expecting.

edit I hope its a permanent thing and not something reverts back after using a different character or after using the character in general but ill just have to see for my self ya.

[Misery]

One important thing for dealing with YV's mansion:   DONT bring the screwdriver into the mansion with you.  Yes, you need it to unlock the car.  Smack the car with it to unlock it, but don't actually ACTIVATE the car yet.   Just let the opened car sit there, and go elsewhere in the level to find a weapon to replace the screwdriver so you're carrying two real weapons into there.   THEN go back and activate the opened car.

And the gold weapons that come from the chest inside are of course random, so you may need to do it multiple times to get a specific one you want.

[crazyroosterman]

One important thing for dealing with YV's mansion:   DONT bring the screwdriver into the mansion with you.  Yes, you need it to unlock the car.  Smack the car with it to unlock it, but don't actually ACTIVATE the car yet.   Just let the opened car sit there, and go elsewhere in the level to find a weapon to replace the screwdriver so you're carrying two real weapons into there.   THEN go back and activate the opened car.

And the gold weapons that come from the chest inside are of course random, so you may need to do it multiple times to get a specific one you want.

1 the screw driver seems like a shitty weapon to me although shouldn't it worth keeping for the (I'm assuming since I'm a huge coward and tend to doge and hide rather than deflect bullets ) bullet deflection capabilities? not that it matters to me since I have a petty hatred towards it and other melee weapons in the first world

2 assuming I can get literally anything I don't actauly mind what I get so long as it means I can start with something different really its all I want.

[Misery]

The basic screwdriver isn't really worth keeping for much; opening that car seems to be it's entire function.

The wrench, on the other hand, is very, very good for the rest of the Desert, and the Sewers as well (since most of the enemies there are rats).  If you want to fill up on ammo early on, keeping the wrench up until the Scrapyard is a good way to do so.

Hammer and particularly the shovel are REALLY good, particularly if you get Trigger Fingers to go along with them (since both of these take out many enemies in a single hit; it's worth noting that they WONT take out the crystal spiders in area 4 in one hit unless you have Scarier Face since the spiders have an unusually high amount of HP).  The shovel becomes bloody amazing with Long Arms.   I usually carry the thing throughout the entire game if I get my hands on one.  Even up to the Throne (and have taken down the Throne a few times using nothing but that shovel).

All of the energy melee weapons (including the energy screwdriver) are also pretty good.  But they take a bit of practice to use well.

Lastly, the jackhammer, people are kinda divided on that one, but nothing swings faster than that thing, and it just utterly flattens Lil' Hunter in particular (he cant hit you with *anything* so long as you keep swinging it as you approach him; not even his blue fire will get past it).  Actually nothing can hit you with ranged attacks other than beams if you keep swinging it.  Though obviously you need to be facing the attacks as they come in.


Melee weapons in this game can be very good, aside from the basic screwdriver, but yes, they can be a little tough to use.