Author Topic: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)  (Read 32796 times)

Offline Misery

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2016, 08:17:08 pm »
What?  Hyper Crystal has more?  *looks at wiki*   

Wait a minute.  The Crystal's HP is 770, Ballmum's is.... 490?  What?  But the Throne is 1500....

Did they switch her HP around at some point?  Heck I hadn't even spotted that they'd given it the name "Mom".  I've been calling it Ballmum all this time.  I could swear though that this boss used to have 10 squillion HP.  It often took well longer than the Throne!

And you're right, the Crystal does take forever and is too easy.  It needs additional attacks besides just lasers, I think.

Offline Misery

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #106 on: April 29, 2016, 10:20:16 pm »
WELL THAT WAS A GOOD FREAKING RUN.

4th floor, doing fine.  Tired of going to the Key Factory, but doing fine.  Had the damn Primer with me to get that over with.

Suddenly...

Windows:  "HERP DERP, I SEE YOU EXIST, DO YOU WANT ME TO TAKE FOCUS FROM YOU? YOU CLEARLY WANT TO OPEN THE MAGICAL *GAME BAR*, RIGHT?  DONT WORRY, I'LL SIT HERE AND LOOK DUMB UNTIL YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON"

Me:  "What?  I cant move!"  *death*


Yyyyyyyyep.   Yep.   YEP.   Uh-huh.   Okay.   Trying not to kill anything.  Trying hard.   


Also, screw Ammolets.   I hate getting those.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #107 on: April 29, 2016, 10:50:51 pm »
Yeah, Windows is a real troll. My computer recently decided to "update" in the middle of a CS:GO competitive game. Without warning me. Or asking if I wanted to shut down.

I feel violated. I didn't give consent. I feel like there's a human rights group I could contact over this.

And of course, it couldn't have just been a normal *shutdown*, it's one of those really long ones where you have to wait for it to update and are heavily warned not to turn off the computer; which I was afraid to do in fear of creating some sort of intergalactic black hole or whatever.

So yeah, Windows.

Mom does take awhile to kill, but that's also because there's so many meatshields she summons, and because it's sometimes difficult to even get in range with all the flying poisonous gas. Oh man, the gas plus those ballfrog minions is such a toxic combination (quite literally). If you get enough of those guys on the screen at once, it's basically GG because even a man of pure Japanese Samurai ancestry could not dodge that bullet hell. Also the layout of the sewers, especially after she destroys all the cover, is pretty open.

Ammolets in general...yeah, seem pretty useless. If there were a more reliable way of getting blanks (I don't think there's a situation I would actually buy one, unless I needed to open a secret passage and I was out). There's a passive item that rewards you blanks for "playing well" I think. That might be the one case where ammolets were actually efficient.

I'm kind of sad that the game seems to have a lack of the pet familiars like in both Binding of Isaac and Starward Rogue (and to a lesser extent NT with Rebel). To me that's a really neat addition to the roguelike/bullethell genre I would have liked to have seen.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #108 on: April 30, 2016, 12:35:09 am »
Yeah, Windows is a real troll. My computer recently decided to "update" in the middle of a CS:GO competitive game. Without warning me. Or asking if I wanted to shut down.

I feel violated. I didn't give consent. I feel like there's a human rights group I could contact over this.

And of course, it couldn't have just been a normal *shutdown*, it's one of those really long ones where you have to wait for it to update and are heavily warned not to turn off the computer; which I was afraid to do in fear of creating some sort of intergalactic black hole or whatever.

So yeah, Windows.

Mom does take awhile to kill, but that's also because there's so many meatshields she summons, and because it's sometimes difficult to even get in range with all the flying poisonous gas. Oh man, the gas plus those ballfrog minions is such a toxic combination (quite literally). If you get enough of those guys on the screen at once, it's basically GG because even a man of pure Japanese Samurai ancestry could not dodge that bullet hell. Also the layout of the sewers, especially after she destroys all the cover, is pretty open.

Ammolets in general...yeah, seem pretty useless. If there were a more reliable way of getting blanks (I don't think there's a situation I would actually buy one, unless I needed to open a secret passage and I was out). There's a passive item that rewards you blanks for "playing well" I think. That might be the one case where ammolets were actually efficient.

I'm kind of sad that the game seems to have a lack of the pet familiars like in both Binding of Isaac and Starward Rogue (and to a lesser extent NT with Rebel). To me that's a really neat addition to the roguelike/bullethell genre I would have liked to have seen.

I'm just glad I got an SSD for this machine instead of a normal harddrive.  It was expensive as hell and pushed the cost of the machine from "absurd" to "WHO SPENDS THAT MUCH ON A PC" but I'm SO glad I did it.  At least when Windows has to do something annoying, it takes like half a second instead of 5 damn minutes. 

But really, the damn thing could have chosen ANY other time to flip out.  I almost had the freaking Primer to the damn Forge.  Now I have to do all of that over again, ugh.  GOOD OL' WINDOWS.


Ammolets:  There is a couple of situations, it turns out, where these are helpful.  If you have the Elder Blank, they can be good, because it's a Blank you can just keep using; there's no reason to hold it back.  It's not a particularly uncommon item either since multiple NPCs offer it.  But more than that, if you can get the Table Tech Blank, THEN the ammolets actually become very good because you'll be able to have the Blank effect fire off so incredibly often.   Actually all of the Table Tech items look really good but that's the only one I've actually picked up so far.   Other than that though, yeah, Ammolets don't seem good.  They might be more worth it if their price wasn't so high.  I mean, they require aggressive use of the Blanks instead of reactive use, which sorta goes against the grain....


As for familiars, there are the Guon Stones, every one of those gives you an orbital that can block shots.  As orbitals they're.... okay at best, but fortunately each one also does something else too. There's also the Beholder gun (I forget the actual name) that can generate those little eyeball dudes to fight for you in addition to it's actual attack. There's something else too, some other familiar/minion, but I cant remember what it is.   I remember it's something that needs to be unlocked.


And speaking of Starward's familiars, there's some very interesting ones in development in that right now.  The version of the game that you've got at the moment only has very few of them; a whole bunch more have been made by Pepisolo, and he's come up with some very creative and fun ideas with these.  Like a couple of defensive ones that, well... I'll not spoil that, but they definitely have my approval, which is rare when it comes to purely defensive items (defensive items can be EXTREMELY OP in Starward unless very carefully balanced).  Defensive items without that approval take a one-way trip to the Secret Room (not the Sacrifice Room).  But these little guys will be showing up in shops.

Also, the sprite size of familiars is going to be lower now because people... including myself... complained a lot about visual confusion with them (they were as big as the freaking player!).  So that's good.  There's been a few tweaks to the already-existing familiars too.

Not that Starward will ever match Isaac in terms of familiars.  Isaac is the freaking Lord of Familiars as far as I'm concerned.  No other game does it like Isaac does it.  It just has SO MANY OF THEM.

A game called The Madness of Little Emma also has some interesting familiars; the idea of Starward's non-orbital familiars that follow you with that stilted movement (or other unusual movement types) came from that game actually.  It's got familiars that can be pretty funky.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 12:37:51 am by Misery »

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #109 on: April 30, 2016, 12:52:56 pm »
Quote
And speaking of Starward's familiars, there's some very interesting ones in development in that right now.  The version of the game that you've got at the moment only has very few of them; a whole bunch more have been made by Pepisolo

Actually, I only created the new Defender Drone. Ptarth made the others, I just tweaked them a bit. New familiars incoming: Defender Drone, Fusion Drone, Interceptor Drone and the Immolated Minibot. (This stuff would already be on the changelog if the wiki was working properly, so I'm not revealing anything super secret, heh).

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #110 on: April 30, 2016, 02:48:15 pm »
Quote
And speaking of Starward's familiars, there's some very interesting ones in development in that right now.  The version of the game that you've got at the moment only has very few of them; a whole bunch more have been made by Pepisolo, and he's come up with some very creative and fun ideas with these.  Like a couple of defensive ones that, well... I'll not spoil that, but they definitely have my approval, which is rare when it comes to purely defensive items (defensive items can be EXTREMELY OP in Starward unless very carefully balanced).  Defensive items without that approval take a one-way trip to the Secret Room (not the Sacrifice Room).  But these little guys will be showing up in shops.
Oh man, the more you tell us about the new patch (either here or in the SR forum), the more excited I am for it to be released. It just sounds like you guys are making a lot of amazing changes to the game that will make it a lot more fun to play.

Didn't you say it would hopefully be released before the end of the month? I don't want to hold you to that but I'm crazy with excitement right now so please forgive me.

------

In my last Enter the Gungeon run I got extremely lucky. I picked up the Hexagun (which is one of my top 3 favorite guns in the game already), then happened upon a couple passive items that made it go from a powerful weapon to hilariously broken in the blink of an eye.

I found two items. One item (Ghost Bullet) allowed my projectiles to pass through enemies, then another item (don't remember the name) that caused my weapon to fire another shot for free everytime I reload. Well the Hexagun is like a railgun/crossbow, so it fires an extremely powerful beam then has to instantly reload, sort of like the Crossbow in either EtG or Nuclear Throne. However, since I got a free second shot every time I reload, that basically meant I'm firing 2 shots per bullet, and each shot is passing through enemies. In addition, each shot has a chance to hex enemies, essentially killing them instantly, and that even works on the mini-boss monsters you'll sometimes find in rooms. What this essentially boiled down to was me mowing down even the toughest opponents in seconds with an endless hail of powerful hex beams.

I also purchased an Elder Blank from a vendor, which made things significantly easier as well.

I found the Forge and now I finally understand what all these weird items I keep finding are supposed to do, but unfortunately I didn't have any of them with me (Jesus the Prime Primer is like 110 gold and it doesn't do anything) so next time I get to the 5th floor maybe I'll be carrying one with me.

Overall it was a pretty hilarious run. I'll once again reiterate, ammo is not a problem for me in that game. I basically used my Hexagun exclusively, except in boss rooms, and I never ran out of ammo for it because there was always an ammo chest around the time I needed it. This meant I had about 9 other guns in reserve on the off-chance I even ran out of ammo for that beast. The game really doesn't force you to be conservative at all. I've been playing Nuclear Throne lately and I find the opposite to be true. I play Steroids and the amount of time you run out of ammo for one or both guns (even if you're using the same gun type in both hands so that you're guaranteed to get ammo for it) is extremely frustrating, it's probably the main reason I end up dying. Still love it though, having to get used to not being able to roll again.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #111 on: April 30, 2016, 02:56:23 pm »
Didn't you say it would hopefully be released before the end of the month?

That would have to be today and it won't be today. :P

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2016, 04:30:20 pm »
The fact that Microsoft is still allowed to make OS:s for governments is beyond me. These things happen in production environments as well. Heck, we even had a Microsoft tech suggest we reboot our positioning server once a day because it had a memory leak. Yes. The positioning server. That keeps track of every police car in the country. Just reboot it once a day. No biggie.

How that company is still in business is utterly beyond me.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #113 on: April 30, 2016, 04:59:24 pm »
Quote
And speaking of Starward's familiars, there's some very interesting ones in development in that right now.  The version of the game that you've got at the moment only has very few of them; a whole bunch more have been made by Pepisolo, and he's come up with some very creative and fun ideas with these.  Like a couple of defensive ones that, well... I'll not spoil that, but they definitely have my approval, which is rare when it comes to purely defensive items (defensive items can be EXTREMELY OP in Starward unless very carefully balanced).  Defensive items without that approval take a one-way trip to the Secret Room (not the Sacrifice Room).  But these little guys will be showing up in shops.
Oh man, the more you tell us about the new patch (either here or in the SR forum), the more excited I am for it to be released. It just sounds like you guys are making a lot of amazing changes to the game that will make it a lot more fun to play.

Didn't you say it would hopefully be released before the end of the month? I don't want to hold you to that but I'm crazy with excitement right now so please forgive me.

------

In my last Enter the Gungeon run I got extremely lucky. I picked up the Hexagun (which is one of my top 3 favorite guns in the game already), then happened upon a couple passive items that made it go from a powerful weapon to hilariously broken in the blink of an eye.

I found two items. One item (Ghost Bullet) allowed my projectiles to pass through enemies, then another item (don't remember the name) that caused my weapon to fire another shot for free everytime I reload. Well the Hexagun is like a railgun/crossbow, so it fires an extremely powerful beam then has to instantly reload, sort of like the Crossbow in either EtG or Nuclear Throne. However, since I got a free second shot every time I reload, that basically meant I'm firing 2 shots per bullet, and each shot is passing through enemies. In addition, each shot has a chance to hex enemies, essentially killing them instantly, and that even works on the mini-boss monsters you'll sometimes find in rooms. What this essentially boiled down to was me mowing down even the toughest opponents in seconds with an endless hail of powerful hex beams.

I also purchased an Elder Blank from a vendor, which made things significantly easier as well.

I found the Forge and now I finally understand what all these weird items I keep finding are supposed to do, but unfortunately I didn't have any of them with me (Jesus the Prime Primer is like 110 gold and it doesn't do anything) so next time I get to the 5th floor maybe I'll be carrying one with me.

Overall it was a pretty hilarious run. I'll once again reiterate, ammo is not a problem for me in that game. I basically used my Hexagun exclusively, except in boss rooms, and I never ran out of ammo for it because there was always an ammo chest around the time I needed it. This meant I had about 9 other guns in reserve on the off-chance I even ran out of ammo for that beast. The game really doesn't force you to be conservative at all. I've been playing Nuclear Throne lately and I find the opposite to be true. I play Steroids and the amount of time you run out of ammo for one or both guns (even if you're using the same gun type in both hands so that you're guaranteed to get ammo for it) is extremely frustrating, it's probably the main reason I end up dying. Still love it though, having to get used to not being able to roll again.


Starward update is theoretically happening on Monday.  Provided I don't blow up the- er, if all goes smoothly.   I don't think there's any major issues right now other than a boss I need to fix on Hard mode that I keep forgetting to do.


As for Gungeon....

Yes, the damn Primer is obnoxiously expensive.  I have to do it AGAIN myself, after the damn "killed by Windows" incident, as I was carrying the stupid thing at the time.   

The other 3 components are also irritating in their own ways, but you don't have to PAY for them (far as I know though, you DO have to be able to fly).  But at least you only need to do each one exactly one time.   So far I've got one component in here.  Just.... not the damn Primer.   Really, I'd rather buy anything else....

Now you mention the ammo thing.... it might be interesting to see what happens when you hit floor 6, "Bullet Hell".   I hear there's *a lot* of ammo/supply problems on that floor right now.  I don't remember the details of it (except for the Dragun not dropping *anything*).  But there's a ton of complaints of people completely running dry either at the start of or during that final floor.  Considering the nature of the boss on that floor and the unique enemies there, well.... yeah, running out, not a good idea.

I still don't see how the hell you keep finding ammo as it is though.   For me, I realized something:  Gun munchers are more common than ammo drops.  So my strategy has been simple:  Choose 2 guns at any given time to use before others, and drain those to kill things before going onto anything else; so when the Muncher shows up, I can feed those two guns to it for something else.  Preferrably something useful. 

Really, its funny how this RNG stuff is so wonky at times with these games but almost seems stuck to each individual player in some way.   Like there's those such as myself that NEVER find ammo in this game (but I sure get hearts, yyyyyep, tons of those), and then those like you that are not having issues with it at all.   And that just.... stays consistent.   It was the same with Nuclear Throne, watching those forums, complaints of "I cant ever get ammo/whatever" were often from the same people, while other groups thought it was fine and maybe there was even too much, and so on.  Just.... bloody amazing.   


On a total side note, I found a funky type of secret room.   Had three chests in it (one unlocked), a key, and a note from a previous Gungeoneer.  Chests were green,  blue, and the unlocked one was brown, something tells me it's always exactly those three.

Kinda makes me wonder how many different setups can appear in secret rooms.  I found that particular room, I think, after getting the Brick of Cash (which nonsensically is the item that helps you find secret rooms easily) from that lock dude.  Though I do think secret rooms in general could be a LITTLE more profitable.

Also knocking enemies into holes with Blank shockwaves (Table Tech Blanks in this case) is hilarious.   The "+1 bullet" item is also pretty nice, found that in the store, that's worth getting I think. 


The fact that Microsoft is still allowed to make OS:s for governments is beyond me. These things happen in production environments as well. Heck, we even had a Microsoft tech suggest we reboot our positioning server once a day because it had a memory leak. Yes. The positioning server. That keeps track of every police car in the country. Just reboot it once a day. No biggie.

How that company is still in business is utterly beyond me.

I've often wondered this myself.

All Windows ever seems to do is FAIL.  Yet as always, it's on the top of the heap.

M$ tech support guys though, I don't wonder about that at all.  Coming from them I kinda would expect their tech support to somehow be derpy.   It's just fitting somehow.

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #114 on: May 01, 2016, 05:54:47 am »
hey so update I just encountered lil hunter for the first(and the 2nd time after that run) and she scared the shit out of me! I ran from her to do my usual boss thing of murdering everything and I forgot she had a jet pack and then well...I died without really knowing what happened expect for seeing some weird blue flames 0_0
but I can get up to that tundra level pretty consistently now so that's a good sign I'm really looking forward to unlocking steroids but there's something  I've been mulling over that I decided to ask you gentlemen

1 is there a good reason to use the laser pistol at all? in the early game were it should be useful id 100 percent rather use the other weapons and in the later game for me the energy weapons are usually lightning and plasma weapons and very rarely a laser rifle so I don't whant to use it there either?

ps I think out of these top down bullet hell ish rogue likes I think I've found the ones I want to stick with gungeon like I said didn't feel particularly fun in the time I had with it and I imagine the same would go for binding o and just for the record I never ever have a problem with ammo in nt unless I'm doing something realy silly like using the grenade launcher as a single target weapon(I once did that in the rat maze yea I know I'm bonkers but I didn't want to use my other weapon the cross bow there)
c.r

Offline Misery

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #115 on: May 01, 2016, 06:37:35 am »
hey so update I just encountered lil hunter for the first(and the 2nd time after that run) and she scared the shit out of me! I ran from her to do my usual boss thing of murdering everything and I forgot she had a jet pack and then well...I died without really knowing what happened expect for seeing some weird blue flames 0_0
but I can get up to that tundra level pretty consistently now so that's a good sign I'm really looking forward to unlocking steroids but there's something  I Most Certainly Have been mulling over that I decided to ask you gentlemen

1 is there a good reason to use the laser pistol at all? in the early game were it should be useful I T'Would 100 percent rather use the other weapons and in the later game for me the energy weapons are usually lightning and plasma weapons and very rarely a laser rifle so I don't whant to use it there either?

P.S. I think out of these top down bullet hell ish rogue likes I think I Most Certainly Have found the ones I want to stick with gungeon like I said didn't feel particularly fun in the time I had with it and I imagine the same would go for binding o and just for the record I never ever have a problem with ammo in nt unless I'm doing something realy silly like using the grenade launcher as a single target weapon(I once did that in the rat maze yea I know I'm bonkers but I didn't want to use my other weapon the cross bow there)

The blue flames, whenever Lil' Hunter lands, he throws out a wave of blue fire from his jetpack.   Avoided by just staying back but like any ranged attack, it can also be blocked with melee or by Crystal's shield.

The trick with Lil' Hunter is to be aggressive.   Don't run from him;  he instead will run from you.   His whole thing is that he's actually a bit of a coward, and will try to hide as much as possible while summoning more and more IDPD to take you out so he doesn't have to.  So if he's not directly attacking you, he's probably sitting in a corner with his radio thing; you want to not let him do that.

But clear out normal enemies that are nearby before attacking him.  The snow zone's enemies are tough enough to begin with but the chaos that Lil' Hunter adds to the mix just makes it much nuttier.



On a side note, didn't get in any time with Gungeon OR NT myself today.  Too much time testing for Starward.  And fixing bosses.  Ugh.  The last 2 bosses that didn't have hard mode patterns finally have one now (don't know how I forgot them before...). 

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #116 on: May 01, 2016, 11:20:39 am »
hey so update I just encountered lil hunter for the first(and the 2nd time after that run) and she scared the shit out of me! I ran from her to do my usual boss thing of murdering everything and I forgot she had a jet pack and then well...I died without really knowing what happened expect for seeing some weird blue flames 0_0
but I can get up to that tundra level pretty consistently now so that's a good sign I'm really looking forward to unlocking steroids but there's something  I Most Certainly Have been mulling over that I decided to ask you gentlemen

1 is there a good reason to use the laser pistol at all? in the early game were it should be useful I T'Would 100 percent rather use the other weapons and in the later game for me the energy weapons are usually lightning and plasma weapons and very rarely a laser rifle so I don't whant to use it there either?

P.S. I think out of these top down bullet hell ish rogue likes I think I Most Certainly Have found the ones I want to stick with gungeon like I said didn't feel particularly fun in the time I had with it and I imagine the same would go for binding o and just for the record I never ever have a problem with ammo in nt unless I'm doing something realy silly like using the grenade launcher as a single target weapon(I once did that in the rat maze yea I know I'm bonkers but I didn't want to use my other weapon the cross bow there)

The blue flames, whenever Lil' Hunter lands, he throws out a wave of blue fire from his jetpack.   Avoided by just staying back but like any ranged attack, it can also be blocked with melee or by Crystal's shield.

The trick with Lil' Hunter is to be aggressive.   Don't run from him;  he instead will run from you.   His whole thing is that he's actually a bit of a coward, and will try to hide as much as possible while summoning more and more IDPD to take you out so he doesn't have to.  So if he's not directly attacking you, he's probably sitting in a corner with his radio thing; you want to not let him do that.

But clear out normal enemies that are nearby before attacking him.  The snow zone's enemies are tough enough to begin with but the chaos that Lil' Hunter adds to the mix just makes it much nuttier.



On a side note, didn't get in any time with Gungeon OR NT myself today.  Too much time testing for Starward.  And fixing bosses.  Ugh.  The last 2 bosses that didn't have hard mode patterns finally have one now (don't know how I forgot them before...).
he thanks I just beat him for the first time today(technically second but the first I killed my self with an explosion right after duuur) yea his attacks don't have much range expect when your in one of this cramped rooms which is how managed to murder the multiple times before btw I beat him by cheesing him with crystals shield now I've just got to replicate that success again and go on words to unlock the rooster man.
c.r

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2016, 11:42:44 am »
Quote
hey so update I just encountered lil hunter for the first(and the 2nd time after that run) and she scared the shit out of me! I ran from her to do my usual boss thing of murdering everything and I forgot she had a jet pack and then well...I died without really knowing what happened expect for seeing some weird blue flames 0_0
As Misery said, Lil' Hunter is most definitely one of the toughest bosses in the game so don't feel frustration for losing to him often. I probably played 100 hours or more before I could beat this boss consistently and it still kills me sometimes anyway. That's because after player skill, a significant portion of the ability to beat this boss comes down to luck. Luck in terms of the stage layout, in terms of the weapons you have, and in terms of his random death pattern, which has killed me a million times.

Here are my tips for beating him:

1. Upon hitting stage 5-3, immediately run for cover.
-You have about 15-20 seconds before Lil' Hunter shows up. You need to find a square, Arena-like dome where you can battle him uninterrupted until you kill him, before proceeding to the monsters on the rest of the level. A small square or cubby hole on the edge of a map is a useful place because you'll be safe from most the level's enemies and it will give you plenty of time to kill him (and his minions) without fear of being interrupted.

BEWARE, attempting to fight Lil' Hunter out in a huge, open area of the map is near-suicide. His direct ranged attacks happen so quickly that they are nearly impossible to dodge or react to, even with the Euphoria mutation that slows down bullets. Do not make the mistake of trying to dodge this boss' attacks, you need to avoid them completely and then hit him with everything you've got as soon as you see an opening.

Sometimes you will spawn in a nice cubby-hole Arena (with some decent cover spots) right at the start of the level, and those times are like blessings. Other times you will spawn in a giant square full of monsters. In those occasions, I have been known to run through 100 angry monsters with countless bullets flying left and right because it's better to take your chances dodging a bullet hell of enemies you aren't even attempting to kill in an attempt to find cover, than fighting Lil' Hunter out in the open.

2. You're going to need a bigger gun.
-The more frontloaded the damage, the better the gun. I.e., you want to do as much damage to the little bastard in as small a time as physically possible. This means that Heavy Crossbow is superior to Crossbow, Auto-Crossbow is better than Heavy Crossbow, Heavy Auto-Crossbow is better than the former, Super Crossbow is a godsend, Super Bazooka is even better than that, and the Nuke Launcher takes the cake. The more damage you can pump out within one or two seconds, the better.

This is because Lil' Hunter usually never stays in one place for too long. Usually after a dozen seconds (or less), he will fly up into the air and change position again, so you need to be ready to unleash everything as soon as he lands.

3. Fight or Flight.
-As I mentioned before, a halfway approach to Lil' Hunter just won't do. You either need to be unleashing everything on him like an insane Rambo (this is ironically why Steroids is one of the best characters against him because he can unleash an endless hail of attacks, theoretically having the highest sustained DPS in the game). With Steroids I've killed this little monster within seconds (actually Steroids also seems to be one of the best characters against The Throne for the same reason. Given the right setup the conclusion of that battle happens more quickly than a teenager with PE disorder). However, the best character against Lil' Hunter in the game will most likely be your boy Y.Z., especially with his Throne Butt upgrade, because unleashing 4 attacks for the price of one can kill the poor guy instantly (and yourself if you're not careful) if you aim it right.

OR Hiding for dear life and killing as many of the police spawns as possible. As I said, you can not take a middle-strategy with Lil' Hunter, casually killing other monsters while you wait for him to come into range and dodging his attacks out in the open. You either need to be going bezerk on him or hiding from him, heavily depending on the situation you're in.

4. My daddy always said walk softly...
-Powerful melee weapons are extremely powerful against Lil' Hunter. Not only for the aforementioned reason you've already learned (they reflect his own bullets back at him), but clubs and axes are the best way to dispatch of his endless suppy of IDPD as well. The best way to kill his minions is to wait at the portals right as they spawn, then swing at the perfect time, killing them just as they come out (before they even have a chance to react). It's a little hard to get the timing down, but once you do it a single time, you should be able to do it every time. The nice thing about the IDPD is that they seem to drop health quite often (but never ammo for some reason), so even if things are going badly against Lil' Hunter, a health pack or two from his minions can actually be the boost you need to finish him off.

However, don't just use Melee weapons against his buddies, if the situation is right, charge in and smack him to death as well. The blue flame he spawns when he lands can be easily batted out of the way with a good swing, and then you're free to wail on him (usually until he dies), reflecting his attacks back at him (especially the aoe 'bouncer' attack) until he succumbs to the pain.

5. Run like hell.
After you kill him, run for dear life. I've died to that death spiral more times than I can count. Technically, nowhere is safe. I've ever hidden in a long tunnel miles away from where the battle took place only to have his angry corpse fly into the tiny tunnel opening and chase me all the way down to the end before promptly exploding and ending my run. It's extremely frustrating. The best advice is to just to make as much distance between him and yourself as you can, and even that won't always save you.

Useful mutations: Scarier Face (less life on an already low hp bar), Euphoria (gives you that extra second to get behind cover), Hammerhead (make your own cover), Long Arms (makes killing and kiting him with melee weapons much easier), and most importantly Boiling Veins because it means both his fire attack and his death explosion won't bring you below 4 hp.

Quote
1 is there a good reason to use the laser pistol at all? in the early game were it should be useful I T'Would 100 percent rather use the other weapons and in the later game for me the energy weapons are usually lightning and plasma weapons and very rarely a laser rifle so I don't whant to use it there either?
Laser weapons are vastly more useful with the Laser Brain mutation. This mutation literally makes some laser weapons TWICE as effective (such as the beam melee weapons, which it causes to swing twice per attack). Laser weapons are also probably the most advanced to use because of rapid ammo consumption and because of some of the funky mechanics they have in general.

Generally, if you're going to use laser weapons I find that Fish is the best character to do it with. That's because Fish gets 20% more ammo than anybody else, and this even includes the ammo you glean from mutations (such as Lucky Shot). Fish with Laser Brain and Lucky Shot is pretty deadly because even the weaker laser weapons become sustainable and the more powerful ones are scary disgusting.

Fish with his Ultra Mutation 'Gun Warrant' (no ammo consumption for the first 7 seconds of a level), along with the 'Trigger Fingers' mutation, and a Super Plasma Cannon is an absolutely unfairly broken strategy, and shouldn't be tried at home.

So to answer your question: Don't use the laser pistol (or rifle) unless you're running Laser Brain, using Fish, or have no better alternatives.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 05:08:21 pm by Wingflier »
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Offline Misery

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #118 on: May 01, 2016, 04:59:58 pm »
I'll second the bit about Scarier Face and Hammerhead; those to me are the two most effective mutations in the game, period.   Scarier Face is the ultimate offense (because everything in the game dies faster) *and* the ultimate defense (dead things cant attack you, so if they ALL die faster, well....), and Hammerhead allows you to get out of any situation at all by just crashing through the nearest wall.  It's particularly useful during Lil' Hunter's fight, and the Palace in general.   But it's really just useful everywhere.

As for the basic laser gun?  Yeah, what Wingflier said;  I never liked it much myself.   I have seen other players that like it; if you watch Sleepcycles play the game (who is very good at it) he'll always grab the laser pistol/rifle over everything else in the early game.   So it's not like it's not potentially effective.  To some degree I think it's a bit subjective really, it's best to just experiment with all of the weapons and decide for yourself.  But as he said Laser Brain will make energy weapons in general muuuuch better so that can definitely affect your choice.


Also:  I know things in the past have been said against the Jackhammer, but.... that weapon is Lil' Hunter's bane.  If I have it, I just keep hitting the button and running at him until he goes down;  he cant shoot me, because I've got the Jackhammer constantly firing (there's no time between it's attacks for bullets to pass through it), it'll plow through his blue waves, it can be used to pop shots from other enemies as well.  It's one of the fastest ways to take him out.  It lets you pretty much just sit right on him and keep stabbing (just watch for possible snowbot rush attacks while you're doing that, of course). 

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Enter the Gungeon (Bullet Hell/Rogue-like)
« Reply #119 on: May 02, 2016, 04:30:07 am »
http://steamcommunity.com/app/242680/discussions/0/357284767249016908/ hey so there seem to be some people who for some bizarre think the game is unpolished do you think they've actually got a point there? personally I really really really don't see were there coming from at all.
c.r