Dwarf Fortress videos

[eRe4s3r]

The UI is the game's biggest difficulty. Master UI and you're fine

UI, in DF?

The game has a self torture interface, a SFI ;p The "interface" is not made for the user, but to annoy him in the most aggravating way possible.

[keith.lamothe]

The UI is the game's biggest difficulty. Master UI and you're fine

UI, in DF?

The game has a self torture interface, a SFI ;p The "interface" is not made for the user, but to annoy him in the most aggravating way possible.

I've seen worse.

At least, I think I have, but I can't be sure.  Memory blackout.

[Wanderer]

A friend of mine I tried to get into this game was razzin' me about the interface about the time that other gentleman did and we got a few tweaks like the 'system gravity border' lines.

I wonder, sometimes, if DF just managed to make me immune to minor interface hassles for complex games.  CoD better not confuse me.  Intricate games?  'eh.

For the record I'm trying to get him to retry it after the recent tweaks but honestly I'd think it'd need an overhaul and he won't spend the time to catalog the things that bug him, it's just 'non-intuitive' to him.  That and I've finally gotten my first fortress since trying to play this game going still after the first year again.  Now, if I could just flood some outdoor land for the 'other' crops I'd be good to go...

[keith.lamothe]

Now, if I could just flood some outdoor land for the 'other' crops I'd be good to go...

Because absolutely nothing can go wrong with a deliberate flooding in DF.

[madcow]

I've tried to like dwarf fortress. But the UI is a huge issue for me. I don't mind losing horribly, and that seems fun. I've learned the basics of how to play, but still knowing what the heck is actually going on with my dwarfs eludes me. I do enjoy watching people play when they can actually explain it though. So I might check out these videos.

I am somewhat excited about the upcoming "A Game of Dwarves" as it -seems- like a heavily DF inspired game with an actual UI. Although its too early to really say if it'll be good or not.

[keith.lamothe]

I've tried to like dwarf fortress. But the UI is a huge issue for me. I don't mind losing horribly, and that seems fun. I've learned the basics of how to play, but still knowing what the heck is actually going on with my dwarfs eludes me.

Have you tried it with Dwarf Therapist?  http://code.google.com/p/dwarftherapist/

I still get bogged down but that helps a lot, and if actually had time to lose myself in losing, it would probably make the pursuit tenable.

[madcow]

Oh, I have. It does help a huge amount in trying to order my dwarfs, I still have issues figuring out what's happening (as opposed to what I'm trying to make happen). Every few months or so I go through a fortress or two and try to see if I have better luck getting into it.

I can't even imagine even trying to play DF without therapist though. It would probably involve huddling in the corner in the fetal position crying like a baby.

[keith.lamothe]

I can't even imagine even trying to play DF without therapist though. It would probably involve huddling in the corner in the fetal position crying like a baby.

You get to the point where you don't need the keyboard-based job-setting interface, your fingers take care of that part for you via muscular memory.

Incidentally, playing with your eyes closed generally makes for faster games.

[Wanderer]

I've tried to like dwarf fortress. But the UI is a huge issue for me. I don't mind losing horribly, and that seems fun. I've learned the basics of how to play, but still knowing what the heck is actually going on with my dwarfs eludes me. I do enjoy watching people play when they can actually explain it though. So I might check out these videos.

Definately check out the CaptnDuck videos.  He rambles, A LOT, and he's got a bit of ADD, but he's very good at getting you through more complicated topics and anything he forgets to mention he drops in as subtitling during editing.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, CaptnDuck's videos are great; I found them entertaining as well as educational.

It's sorta DF's concept of "difficulty levels": the hardest is actually playing the game yourself, but if you just want to "play on easy" to see the fun stuff without being crushed like a grape in a hydraulic vice, you can just read about (or watch) someone else playing the game

[Wanderer]

Yea, CaptnDuck's videos are great; I found them entertaining as well as educational.

It's sorta DF's concept of "difficulty levels": the hardest is actually playing the game yourself, but if you just want to "play on easy" to see the fun stuff without being crushed like a grape in a hydraulic vice, you can just read about (or watch) someone else playing the game

LOL, yeah.  "C'mon, guys... DIG!"  "No?"  "Be back in a second"  (screen flips over what you know was like 10+ minutes of digging)  "Hey guys..."

[Wanderer]

Now, if I could just flood some outdoor land for the 'other' crops I'd be good to go...

Because absolutely nothing can go wrong with a deliberate flooding in DF.

Heh, yeah, that's why it's taking a while.  I'm debating on actually using an offshoot of the pressure screw - decontamination waterfall I expect to build off the river that runs from a bit aways.  Just really don't want to build off the water system right now, I want to finish getting walls up and drive a hole deep enough to get at the magma.  This particular embark has some REALLY wide cave systems that I'm avoiding.

However, I'm relatively sure that nothing's going to end up as Fun as the fortress that was put under siege by a local Necromancer and his army in the Summer of the first year.  I just gave up on that one...  It wasn't an interesting enough death, it was just highly annoying and I couldn't get anything done.  End result would simply be everyone's starved to death.

I do need to get a couple of lockable hatches into play though on the main stairways in case I hit a pressure washer of an underground river (or magma).  Ah well, one thing at a time.

[Mánagarmr]

There are ways around the interface, for instance Dwarf Therapist for managing jobs (which, tbh, is the absolute biggest "workload" there is in the UI), DFDesignator/Quickfort for designating big areas to be dug out or built from pre-made blueprints and other such programs. But it remains a pre-alpha game, and until the gameplay elements are there, there really isn't much point in sitting down and making a spiffy UI that you will have to change next week.

Unless of course you're a GUI coding genius and come up with an easily scalable UI. But yeah, Toady has stated that UI is not a focus. DF is not being sold, so there's no profit to be made and those who really love the game aren't really bothered with the UI anymore ("I don't even see the code anymore. It's just blonde, brunette, redhead...")

[zespri]

But it remains a pre-alpha game, and until the gameplay elements are there, there really isn't much point in sitting down and making a spiffy UI that you will have to change next week.

This is simply not true. If it was true we would not have alphas with UIs. But the fact is it's hard to find an alpha without UI. Moreover the alpha argument wears quite thin after 6 years.

Unless of course you're a GUI coding genius and come up with an easily scalable UI. But yeah, Toady has stated that UI is not a focus. DF is not being sold, so there's no profit to be made and those who really love the game aren't really bothered with the UI anymore ("I don't even see the code anymore. It's just blonde, brunette, redhead...")

And this is just arrogant Not on your part, mind you, but still it is. Yeah a lot of people love the game *despite* the horrible UI. It's not unlike I love Diablo 3 despite always-on and all the glitches. It still does not make it right. If UI were better the game would be more accessible and even greater than now (can you imagine that?). The fact that you got used to the tedium of a horrible UI.... well it does not justify the horrible UI and it does not make the peeves or those who have problem with it any less based.

[Mánagarmr]

Yes, it's sort of arrogant, I agree. But who are we to argue, really? The game isn't really out at all, and it's a "lover's project" so to speak for him. If he doesn't enjoy making a UI, I wouldn't force him to either. But then again, I'm kinda biased as the UI is as second nature to me now as working with a car.

DF is kinda the "Vi" of computer games. A real mess to learn, but very powerful once you know it.