Author Topic: Drox Operative  (Read 81433 times)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #135 on: July 01, 2012, 05:05:10 pm »
Civ V still easily takes 12+ hours to play on large or beyond, so that argument doesn't count. Complexity doesn't have to be terribly impossible to manage (like in those old amiga and dos games).

I simply hope some other developers read this topic and notice our demands, or maybe gamers read it, and pester developers to make it. I am not really sure. I think someone could make a great 4x game with little money (around 100k$) as long as full mod and script freedom was there, the system needs to be basically a engine that runs entirely on LUA or similar for its game logic. Nothing hardcoded, absolutely nothing. Yes, the counter thesis to Arcengames games current stance on this. I absolutely don't agree with x4000 that mods would splinter the userbase by the way, because that can only happen for competitive games in the first place, and Arcengames hasn't made such games so far. But then I am just a gamer and 3d artist, to me some things (like the serial and mod stance) of arcengames are very confusing, but they still make fun games.. so yeah.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #136 on: July 01, 2012, 06:02:24 pm »
Imo the 1 game that will break this stagnation can be made, but only if is absolutely focused on maintaining 100% moddability. Because the dynamic nature of the galaxy can not ever work without (little moderated) user created content. People have so many ideas for this kind of stuff, that no developer alone could ever make them happen, but users can, if the framework is there.

And it is this fact that will more than likely exclude Arcen, which seems to be allergic to that concept. I know there is a thread about why somewhere. It's a shame because I think they could have done it, skill-wise.
It's not that we don't want to do moddability, but it would seriously conflict with our rapid-iteration approach.  It's one thing to have giant mods out there that have to be updated every three months because of an official patch; it's another thing if the modders are having to at least check to see if something needs updated multiple times a week.  The alternative would be our having to make sure all of our patches don't break what the modders are relying on, which would drastically slow us down and/or restrict the kinds of changes we could make.

On the player-base-fragmentation thing, eRe4s3r, that would be very real even if it were a purely singleplayer game: if there were 3 different big "balance mods" out there for AIW (and there would be), then the feedback on the actual game's balance would both diminish and become diluted with reports that really only apply in a modded situation.

Not to mention less significant issues like having to ask every single bug-reporter "what mods were you playing with?"


But sure, the actual code-work for moddability would not be hard the way we do things, and where it makes sense and doesn't have costs that outweigh the benefits, we're happy to include it.  For example, graphics modding in AIW and AVWW, levels in Tidalis, rooms in AVWW, etc.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #137 on: July 01, 2012, 08:13:49 pm »
On the topic of modibility. Its great and really extends the life on a game when the Dev team makes it, patches the bugs, then forgets about the game. With constant development that relies on player feedback, I don't think mods are really necessary.

So open mods don't really fit Arcen's model. But for the other 99% of dev teams that forget about their game once its finished and working, yeah they really need to leave modding as an option.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #138 on: July 01, 2012, 08:51:34 pm »
Well with modding support I was mainly talking about the yet unannounced 4x game by Arcen :D But for AVWW you really hurt yourself with the lack of quest modding/scripting. Because as you noticed no doubt, making fun quests is a pain in the backside and just having a lot of user made maps doesn't help at all (in fact, it makes it even worse because you can't use any of them for missions unless you test them properly). It is better to have a very modular mod system for quests so that people can easily pick flavors, that way, you have fast prototyping and could quickly spot popular quest ideas.

But yes, for AVWW and AI War there would be no point in mod support now because.. the games where not made for it. Too many things are too tightly hardcoded, I don't mean balance, I mean scripting and how quests/npc's/AI reactions/buildings work. But also the effect system is very hardcoded (now that is something i can not fathom at all)

The lack of a "spell level" variable that can be used in math functions in the AVWW spell effect xml comes to mind. But also IF this spell hits THAT spell do THIS kind of scripting. I haven't even got special ideas, I just think a good magic system needs this by default.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #139 on: July 01, 2012, 10:22:38 pm »
On the player-base-fragmentation thing, eRe4s3r, that would be very real even if it were a purely singleplayer game: if there were 3 different big "balance mods" out there for AIW (and there would be),

Cyborg's Balance Mod and everybody else's. I don't disagree with that strategy right now for AI war, but in the future when you put it down, make sure you leave yourself something for retirement of that IP.

I see your point of view on all points, and it's rational. It just wouldn't be appropriate for a 4x.
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Offline jonasan

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #140 on: July 03, 2012, 09:03:07 am »
i've been playing and thoroughly enjoying drox for a while now.. and today i got approved on the soldak forum and was able to post up a thread of my feedback/ideas.... its rather epic (which i hope wont put everyone off from reading through it?!) but its my feedback as requested - concerning mostly the coherence and feel of the game, proper lore, long term sustained play potential and win conditions both in the individual sector and galaxy wide....

echoing something eraser said earlier in this thread i would really appreciate feedback of any kind...  so i thought i would drop a link here....

http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5313

cheers   ;D

Offline Stephen Hornback

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #141 on: July 03, 2012, 05:25:24 pm »

Offline jonasan

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #142 on: July 09, 2012, 04:17:39 am »
.907 is out and Drox is becoming rather brilliant!  :)

Next time you get a holiday keith i think your going to rather enjoy the developments... ;)

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #143 on: July 09, 2012, 05:05:00 am »
It's definitely shaping up!
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #144 on: July 11, 2012, 09:36:08 am »
Speaking of the win conditions, apparently Shadow is working on alternate win conditions for an upcoming patch. Win, win, win!
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Offline madcow

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #145 on: July 12, 2012, 11:02:44 am »
Speaking of the win conditions, apparently Shadow is working on alternate win conditions for an upcoming patch. Win, win, win!

Speaking of an upcoming patch with alternate win conditions. ;)  I just noticed a new patch is out, 0.908, with exactly that. Economic, military, diplomatic, fear, and legend winning conditions. Awesome!

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #146 on: July 12, 2012, 11:04:09 am »
Yep, that patch was indeed made of win, pun intended. The new win conditions add a LOT of depth to the game.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #147 on: July 21, 2012, 02:20:01 pm »
There's been a couple new patches since any last posts. It looks like the game has been drastically improved in the latest ones. Though its been several patches since I've played a Drox sector, wanting to wait until its out of beta before really getting into it. Anybody still been keeping at Drox?

Offline Castruccio

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #148 on: July 21, 2012, 03:46:32 pm »
I've definitely been keeping at it.  It is getting better and better.  They have fixed many of the most glaring issues. 

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #149 on: July 21, 2012, 06:05:36 pm »
Yea, I've been keeping up on the patch notes and each one makes me more enthusiastic about what it's becoming (though I don't think it's fundamentally changing in the ways that some folks would need it to, just a different game).  Would love to dive back in but will probably wait until release.  Seems like there's enough feedback coming in from players that my piling more on would probably just be more-piling ;)
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