Author Topic: Drox Operative  (Read 81362 times)

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #90 on: June 26, 2012, 04:50:55 pm »
Ah yeah :-[ , don't be sad please if I just call you "zeh developer" but I can't remember names on the intertubes and It sounds super weird if the nick is the name.. feels to personal, and the intertubes are supposed to be impersonal (that's also why I say x4000 and developers and not keith because keith is too personal, I actually have to force me to write names ;P) ;) With slow I just mean compared to Arcen.. (ok, maybe you should not take an example on how the beta's here go to begin with given that they can often reverse the curse of a game by 180° and can end up even in a totally different genre *cough* ;P).

And I know my comments are always very harsh but please remember I play nearly EVERY game that exists on the PC, at least once, (unless it's a F2P or MMO) either at friends or myself (although with some hefty delay usually) so I am getting a lot more focused on what I do not like in games I play. And based on my subjective view I often see the fatal flaw (what draws me away after round 1 so to speak) instantly nowadays.

If at all possible I hope you can find some "hook" so that it doesn't feel like a living universe that we have absolutely no reason to interact with save for trading and repairing at a planet. The dynamic nature of the race system you made is exceptional and the unique feat of your game, however, it also destroys the narrative in the game because the missions are just "trailing behind" the dynamic races and whatever they do. Colonization and Kill missions are the perfect example, if we dawdle or have to find our way it often happens the mission is over before we even found where it was supposed to happen. Yet the mission is not just over but the objectives were COMPLETED by someone else, that means our potential failure penalty is 0. We literally can not fail in this game, if at all, we fail upwards. Ie, the planet is colonized and the super dangerous elite threat destroyed so we can farm his minions instead and then repair at the newly colonized planet that we were supposed to colonize.

Off hand I don't even have a clue how to fix that, in Depth of Peril the management of the clan was what bound us and made us care. Was what defined what goals were worthwhile and how to handle them. However in DROX there is no narrative, we are not a "part" of anything. Our decisions shape the battlefield but we don't have to fight on it unless we chose, and even then only when and how we chose. We got too much choice and too little actual defining consequence when it's a bad one.

I suppose this is a very typical thing to hear from a AI War player ;p Given that the only fail direction in AI War is to the game over screen, hehehe..
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 04:55:43 pm by eRe4s3r »
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

Offline Hearteater

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,334
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2012, 08:04:26 pm »
eRe4s3r: There is only one of me. We've released 3 patches already, that's pretty quick. I don't discuss too much on the forums because I can either discuss everything or make actual progress on addressing the issues. I do read everything though. Even that is taking a lot of time right now.

Wanderer: Both of your threads are up on our forums: thread1 and thread2. The only reasons so far that I have ever deleted or not approved threads was because of spam or duplicates.

On the plus side, this thread is making me seriously consider Drox Operative :) .

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,579
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #92 on: June 26, 2012, 10:06:06 pm »
Wanderer: Both of your threads are up on our forums: thread1 and thread2. The only reasons so far that I have ever deleted or not approved threads was because of spam or duplicates.
Ah, excellent to know, thanks Steven.  I may have just hit it at an odd time or something.  At the time, only one made it through.  It's just frustrating.

Edit: Thanks for removing that mod approve everything restriction my account had.  I no longer feel like an unwelcome doormat.  I realize that's not the intent of the process, but it's definately not a friendly feeling on this end of the keyboard, no matter how much my brain tries to explain it again otherwise.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 05:16:00 am by Wanderer »
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Stephen Hornback

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #93 on: June 27, 2012, 09:26:02 am »
And, eRe4s3r, just letting you know that there have already been discussions (by Soldak) concerning your UI comments/criticisms/suggestions since your post several days ago (post 32). As Steven ("zeh developer") mentioned earlier, there are many issues (and not just with the UI) to be dealt with; and Steven's feedback might show up in the game rather than in the forums. Some minor UI changes will be in the next patch, but not a complete redesign as per your mock-up (yet). Things may change further, time permitting.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2012, 11:46:31 am »
And, eRe4s3r, just letting you know that there have already been discussions (by Soldak) concerning your UI comments/criticisms/suggestions since your post several days ago (post 32). As Steven ("zeh developer") mentioned earlier, there are many issues (and not just with the UI) to be dealt with; and Steven's feedback might show up in the game rather than in the forums. Some minor UI changes will be in the next patch, but not a complete redesign as per your mock-up (yet). Things may change further, time permitting.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why more than 75% of my games are Indie developed.

AAA response? "Pff, shove it. We know better than you. Buy it and like it! Have some DLC while you're here. Good boy!"
Indie response? "Hey that's...that's actually a cool idea. I'll see if we can wing something together with that. Nice!"
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2012, 02:23:00 pm »
Yeah but what is the point of "discussions" relating to my mockups and points when they are not in the topic with my mockups and points ;P I don't have an oracle telling me someone is talking about my suggestions elsewhere ,p To me, no reply on my last post in my thread means nobody cares. How else would you interpret it? This is also why I still didn't post the latest revision on soldak, mainly because I am.. kinda lazy with this now. My mockup and care boost is over, so to speak.

Link to that
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,10939.msg108160.html#msg108160

I guess I am to attention hungry related to this ;) Maybe I expect too much. I am just used to direct feedback even if people hate it (Deviant Art just trains you like that) and if I don't get feedback that generally means it really sucks and I should move on. Anyhow..
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 02:27:09 pm by eRe4s3r »
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #96 on: June 27, 2012, 03:04:09 pm »
Well, it could also be because Soldak is a one man show. He's excessively busy, as far as I'm aware. But I agree, the responses were rather tame. I posted there to kick it back to the top, but I'm not approved yet ;)
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #97 on: June 27, 2012, 03:17:16 pm »
Yeah but you know, I also would like to know what other people (besides teh dev) think. ;p But thanks for effort, but moderated posts get added retroactively, so between now and your post appearing, the topic will /likely\ not actually get bumped to front page.. not that I care ;) If GUI improvements are coming my goal is achieved.

I just, you know, like replies to my topics, generally speaking ;P
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #98 on: June 27, 2012, 03:20:06 pm »
I know exactly what you mean ;)
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Castruccio

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #99 on: June 27, 2012, 05:04:58 pm »
Yeah but what is the point of "discussions" relating to my mockups and points when they are not in the topic with my mockups and points ;P I don't have an oracle telling me someone is talking about my suggestions elsewhere ,p To me, no reply on my last post in my thread means nobody cares. How else would you interpret it? This is also why I still didn't post the latest revision on soldak, mainly because I am.. kinda lazy with this now. My mockup and care boost is over, so to speak.


I guess I am to attention hungry related to this ;) Maybe I expect too much. I am just used to direct feedback even if people hate it (Deviant Art just trains you like that) and if I don't get feedback that generally means it really sucks and I should move on. Anyhow..

A new patch was just released that incorporates changes to the interface inspired by your feedback. The changes are modest (i.e. not an entire UI redesign) but they are definitely for the better and you can  tell that your mock up and feedback inspired them.  I suspect that the changes will not satisfy you, although I very much appreciate them.

 You were also mentioned in the patch notes here for version .904:  http://www.soldak.com/Drox-Operative/Patches/Changes.html

Perhaps this will satisfy your admitted hunger for attention.

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,579
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #100 on: June 27, 2012, 05:20:03 pm »
Yeah but you know, I also would like to know what other people (besides teh dev) think. ;p But thanks for effort, but moderated posts get added retroactively, so between now and your post appearing, the topic will /likely\ not actually get bumped to front page.. not that I care ;) If GUI improvements are coming my goal is achieved.

I just, you know, like replies to my topics, generally speaking ;P

If it helps any Eraser some of my own posts are ending up discussed in other threads too.  *shrugs*  As long as they're considered, I'm cool with it.  Admittedly, feedback as to why something won't work or why it's felt to be a bad idea by the designer goes a long way towards me having *better* ideas towards what their vision is, but I can understand the x hours in a day problem 'zeh developer' is having.  Considering he's getting inundated with over 100 people worth of ideas (at the LEAST) and you can't remember HIS name.... yeah.

Relax.  It's like the waitress not remembering your name but remembering your order.  As long as it shows up hot, without mushrooms, and with the side of Ranch you wanted... *shrugs*  It ain't perfect but it's life.  8)
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #101 on: June 27, 2012, 05:42:07 pm »
@Wanderer True ;p I have so much stuff going in and out of my brain daily I can't even remember what I typed 2 hours ago. I do freelance and hobby 3D besides posting silly stuff in forums. (Maybe that is why I haven't done anything spectacular lately.. mhhh... food for thought.) As you say, when at the end things change for the better, goal achieved ;)

@ Castruccio, now I am happy :D

And it's a good start. Less bright blue can never hurt ,p But with attention I really meant.. opinions and feedback, although it does make me even happier when said suggestions are resulting in changes for the better. Though I like to know what is good or bad so that my future suggestions might be more on target (that is really why I said I grave for attention, a good suggestion comes only from interaction, never from just solo action) so yeah ;)

By the way, I can remember his name, I just refuse to type names on the intertubes when said people are involved in the discussion (or when it is about their game). It becomes too personal, and on the web, where you can't judge my tone this is too easy to be misunderstood.

It really is a persona I am talking to, I can not ever bring me to make a person out of a persona. It would change my style to reply and make me think to much about the how, and not enough about the what. (probably hard to understand unless you are involved in many thousands of comments on DA...)

Wait, what was this topic again... Drox, yeah, good patch ;p
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,579
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #102 on: June 27, 2012, 06:04:20 pm »
It really is a persona I am talking to, I can not ever bring me to make a person out of a persona. It would change my style to reply and make me think to much about the how, and not enough about the what. (probably hard to understand unless you are involved in many thousands of comments on DA...)

No, I understand.  For too much information if you ever find yourself on SQLServerCentral.com my tag name is Evil Kraig F... so I understand the need to not invest too much into any one post.  However, I've found that forgetting there's other people on the end of those personas is very... dangerous... to the psyche after a while.  It is for me, at least.  Every persona is a person, and I have to always remember that or my posting comes far too close to either generic or trollish instead of a conversation with a particular human being.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #103 on: June 27, 2012, 06:11:56 pm »
Wewt! New patch!
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #104 on: June 27, 2012, 06:54:45 pm »
It really is a persona I am talking to, I can not ever bring me to make a person out of a persona. It would change my style to reply and make me think to much about the how, and not enough about the what. (probably hard to understand unless you are involved in many thousands of comments on DA...)

No, I understand.  For too much information if you ever find yourself on SQLServerCentral.com my tag name is Evil Kraig F... so I understand the need to not invest too much into any one post.  However, I've found that forgetting there's other people on the end of those personas is very... dangerous... to the psyche after a while.  It is for me, at least.  Every persona is a person, and I have to always remember that or my posting comes far too close to either generic or trollish instead of a conversation with a particular human being.

Well forgetting is not an issue, but it's healthy to refuse to see them as anything but personas unless necessary. I never judge, expect, or know who or what is behind one. That is the reason I am even posting in forums. Obviously a human is behind the persona, but I don't want to know their name or too much personal information, it would drive me insane. I have a healthy social conversation life outside the web, but inside the web I am eRe4s3r, and not anyone or anything else. Unless you contact me via email and even then I wouldn't give you my real name unless you'd be asking for it and I'd feel obliged. I think what a lot of people in the Information age do wrong is consider the web as an extension of real life. The web is there to enhance your life, but not to intermingle with your real-life (as you can tell, I would never use facebook). And so when I know someones name it would be absurd to talk about them by name in a forum topic. It would indicate that I know them, which I do not. And unless I physically meet someone I do *not* know them, and thus am not feeling that I should know their name, or use it.

This is an interesting topic by the way, I assume many people have many different ways to view social interaction on the web.

As an example, I have no problem referencing to x4000 but calling keith keith is already too much ;) We are on the web, use personas. It should be law.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 06:57:02 pm by eRe4s3r »
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie