Author Topic: Drox Operative  (Read 81367 times)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2012, 12:51:50 pm »
Well you can use the PSD and whatever is in it for mods however you want ^^ v4 is gonna be posted tomorrow (minimap and the other missing MAIN gui stuff will be in it clock, those 9 icons, name/level/location) for the rest.. well the style is KISS - anyone can continue it with pipette and pencil (in photoshop, obviously ,p) as long as the colors stay same. After V4 I will be kinda finished though. I won't do actual GUI border elements or things specific to any other screen, because that is very DROX specific and would make no sense to anyone if I posted it on my DA scraps

Do you mean that the game uses bitmap fonts? Anyhow, I still hope that official changes are made ;p The XP bar is not terribly vital but.. well you'd need to come up with an alternate design if you wanted that long thing to fit into this gui design. I changed it for a reason. Notice how short it is (And the drox XP bar isn't) ;p It is not perfectly balanced right now in terms of where the center is but making it any shorter would be possible if you were to make it a pseudo hexagonal pattern. Obviously would need support for shapes that fill up though because a bar can't change direction ,p That is actually Why I haven't posted v4 psd, the XP bar currently disturbs the balance. It is not much but it is enough to bother me ^^ (A bar that is short as required would be not very informative)
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Offline madcow

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2012, 11:22:50 pm »
I was still only partway through my first sector before patch .902 came out. But my thoughts so far are mixed.

Its a fun game, but each solar system seems a little -too- big (or the speed is just too low), especially when you need to go across multiple systems travel and worse exploring can be a little tedious. Using jumpgates to get around is pricey, and traveling through starlanes tediously slow - but I saw they lowered the price on jumpgates so maybe that's improved. It would also be nice if we could see system connections/planets in a system before we find them. The controls are wonky, I still haven't figured out how to control ship spin with keyboard as opposed to mouse. Its bound to be an option but I must be missing it.

All in all, the gameplay itself I'm finding enjoyable (combat, messing with colonies/politics, ship building), and if my last paragraph sounded negative - I do think its a fun game. Its just a lot of the stuff between "play" during the downtime that feels like it needs improvement. I haven't seen or done all the quests or gotten too in depth into play. So that's just impressions from a few hours in the first sector.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2012, 03:17:18 am »
As promised here is the final GUI mockup.. more or less final anyway


- Changed and condensed XP bar and made it a full part of the GUI
- added location and ownership coding as well as time
- Added ship name (Although why we need to know this at all times is beyond me

# Missing
~ The 9 Icons
~ Minimap

And here is the PSD with intact layers and everything

http://filesmelt.com/dl/Drox_Mockup_4.psd

---------------

And seeing as there is a new beta patch, there are some changes to how the start of the game plays now (for the better, imo)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2012, 09:42:07 am »
Yea, 0.902 drastically improves the energy-cost situation (I'm back to missile/beam, and I'm seriously considering giving missile/mass-driver a try) and provides an option when starting a sector to pick how well-established the races already are: I think the higher option will skip most/all of the colony rush phase (which I enjoy but it can feel slow and leads to the strategic situation often favoring one race massively) and just get to the part where races fight each other, but I haven't tried it.
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Offline jonasan

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #79 on: June 23, 2012, 01:29:49 am »
thanks keith. i'm happily bopping around my first sector lending the shadow a hand as they slowly conquer the galaxy. As you rightly said there is innovation, dynamic world and meaningful choice all over this game...

so far excellent... i think spending a couple of days reading here and the soldak forum helped me with the early game experience but everything seemed to click in straight away for me. thoroughly enjoying myself.

first game i've bought since valley way back on beta release day. nice to dabble in something new... cheers

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2012, 09:20:05 am »
Bit the bullet and preordered yesterday and hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo did the hours flow by. I almost missed making my Let's Play episode of the week for Dwarf Fortress because I was busy with Drox. It sucks me in far more than Din's ever did, and Din's was great! I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it all works, and it appeas the Cortex were extremely badass in my playthrough because everyting else is just mega-extinct by the time I got out of the first solar system.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2012, 06:50:13 am »
Drox Op isn't too bad.  One thing I'd wished it mentioned was the quest list is in the relations screen so you can figure out where things are, instead of just randomly wandering around trying to figure out where to go.

Also, it'd be nice if your first ship had a decent engine in it (for the weight).  'eh, It'll work out I guess.  Decent game, not sure how long it'll hold my interest though.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #82 on: June 26, 2012, 01:24:57 am »
Okay, I've spent a little time with this game and it definately is in the middle of a serious sand and polish mode.

The core gameplay is decent.  It's not something you'd play forever but it's alright.  The concept is cool as hell if Soldak can ever nail it down.

There's a number of little things in this that are annoying me.  One is post moderation.  Very difficult to have a discussion and get into it as a newb when a mod needs to come by to approve everything first.  Anyway...

Another is the shop mechanics.  Yeah, fine, it's all randomized.  You'd think though that most of it would be stuff you could use unless you purposely set the game over your level.  I'd say 75-80% of the stuff in shops that I'd be looking to get is actually above my current abilities by a level if not two... and that's if I sunk all my points into that.  I got pretty heavy on Helm because I got tired of driving like a slug through the universe.  I expect the rest of my gear to suck.  I don't expect the shopkeepers (all of them) to be only selling Tiffany's.

A third is this MASSIVE fleet of ships you end up fighting.  An example.  My current build is a 'run like hell' build.  Fighter Bay, EMP, and Mines.  Remember, I'm speedy!  I'm at 170 speed for crying out loud.  You know what I can outrun?

Nada.

So, I end up flying into the NEXT set, inside of 30 seconds, of another fleet of 5+ ships... until you've got 30-40+ ships that you've collected going through areas you JUST cleaned out and are picking up more.  I don't feel like it's ship on ship combat with tactical assets, it's "Can I dump enough damage or get to a friendly world before I die?".  This is not pleasant to me.  Every enemy feels the same to boot.  They've got this HUGE library of models, but I'll be damned if I can tell you what the different ones do.  They chase you at matched speed and shoot you with lasers.  Some have more hitpoints... usually the smaller ships.  Narm?  Maybe they heavily differentiate at the really high levels, I don't know.  If it suddenly changes heavily later though I'm going to be frustrated.

Alright, so now we're going to get into the whole loot randomness.  RANDOM LOOTZ IS COOLZ because it beefs you up compared to standard gear at your current... WTF you mean the same item as a rare means I need more of x stat because it's better?  Oh, come on.  Screw it, I'll just shop at the markets.  Between weak assed crap in the drops and the fact that my stats probably can't support a 'better find' anyway since I need another level to use the same item with a boost, let's concentrate on quests.

... Ooookay, or not.  "Please go scan this world..."  Okay, sure.  What system?  Errr, um, looks like that connects to it, I'll pop in over there and... "Obsolete."  THE HECK?  What, were you already there and teasing me?  By the time you've built up your sector map all of those missions are basically useless.  Either the sector's allied or its at war and fully colonized... which brings me to the next point.  Are you actually supposed to be able to participate in that war?

I'm dragging back fleets of 30+ monster ships to AI worlds so they can help me obliterate them before I get gakked.  They're eating them.  Now, you want me to run a weapons supply UNDER THE ENEMY who has equivalent firepower?  Which one of us is insane here?

Okay, so no war quests unless I can find a friendly in the middle of attacking some planet.  Deliver xyz quests are pretty danged hard at the beginning too as your 3 heavy slots are usually - Weapon/Power/Engine.  You have to give up one to deliver colonists or other random things to far-flung worlds, or resort to playing hide and seek for the Medium/Light equivalents (thrust comes to mind) and completely reconfigure to attempt it.

That leaves... Pirates and Hunting missions.  Any name you say ends up as "Bring back five Black Bunny Butts" and "Kill Random Boss Spawn".  Neither of these really make me feel like you're influencing the events of the 4x going on around you.  So, the empire with 28 worlds lost one.  Boo Hoo, here, have a cookie.

So, the real component of this that should make it stand out is the politics and the influence.  You make cash to get influence right?  Well, I went on a whisper campaign to attempt to break an alliance to see what it would do.  In my first playthrough I sold some technology for about 150k each to the different races so I was pretty set in credits.

100k in credits later I'd managed by using the most expensive option to lower the race's opinion by about 15 points.  My guess is they were improving it in between.  Now, admittedly, I was trying to snap an alliance in half and have them go at each other.  On the other hand for about 45k I was able to get them to just simply declare war.  Woots.

Espionage... I'm assuming I'm supposed to get a tech the same way that knowledge drops when you rt-click will give you.  If there's a list of techs I've got available I can't find it, I can only see the ones I have that whoever I'm trading with doesn't.  However, apparently I managed to steal about 15 level 1 techs when I tried, cause I never saw nuttin.

About the only useful one is getting worlds to rebel, and I haven't really played with it enough to know how heavy handed I need to be with it yet.

So, the space-side influence is pretty meh.  How about direct politics?  You're an ant.  You're treated that way.  They want to give me 200 creds for info on worlds they've never been near, have no interest in information on their enemy, but once I'm allied you'll basically let me pick your pockets clean for belly button lint.  Which gives me money to do... what exactly?

Then there's a ton of minor interface things that just make me wonder.
  • Why does 'repair all' not repair the structure of my ship and need to be done via a different button?
  • Why does the game not pause in the Trade Screen?  It does everywhere else.
  • Why when a pickup object and a planet overlap does the planet get priority?
  • Why can I NOT move a cargo bin while it has items in it to my stash?  Isn't that one of the benefits of having subdivided inventories?
  • I realize they're still working on a 'good approach' but the entire item value and where it goes screen just doesn't work for me yet.  Blizzard uses a particular color scheme for a reason, including color blindness.  If you're gonna build a kill and loot game, why not stick with convention?  And those triangles just really don't work, but that's something still under experimentation.
  • I still have no idea why my 'speed refills' aren't able to be dropped into the Rt-Click bar.  I can put weapons (which I have under 1,2,3,4...) but I can't put the items I CAN'T hotlink to the left trigger, like speed heals/refills.  Narm?  If I can, I certainly haven't figured out how in 3 sectors of randomly trying in frustration.
  • A tiny little thing: When I miss because my attack was too low, TELL ME I MISSED.  Don't make me wonder if I STILL haven't quite figured out the range of this thing...
  • Personal gripe: If I put in 3 fighter bays with a max of 5 fighters each and want to move like a dead slug with no power, I expect to be able to launch 5 of EACH fighter, not a total of 5 and be able to pick my flavor.
  • If you're going to have the base race seem important, make it important.  I'm long past where 5 points in any direction meant anything, particularly since I gained four levels randomly flying around trying to figure out the interface.  Basically, beginning race is 'what ship looks cool'.  It really has no effect later.

Alright, so, that's one hell of a gripe list.  However, there's a number of things it does RIGHT:
In most politics screens, you end up playing a massive guessing game with the other faction trying to figure out what they'll want in return for what you desire.  One shining mechanic that Drox includes is simply the "What'll it take to get this to happen?".  Talk about frustration removal.

Heavy Duty Customization.  Aside from my gripes about misleading fighter counts and overzealous shopkeepers, the customization (once you learn to read that purple (why not red?) means it's going to COST you something and gold means it GIVES you something and white means it's a bonus...) is amazing.  Shields and Armor need a bit more differential (why would I take one I pay to repair over one I don't when they do the same thing) and there needs to be more intuitive stat to ability traversal other than "Hit head here" until you get it, but you can customize to an amazing degree.  There's a TON of depth in customization and specialization... I can see it going tons further as you get more levels.

The concept is cool as crap.  It's worth saying twice.  The idea of being the rogue hero or influential mercenary unit in the middle of the 4x war is cool as crap.  I adored Battletech and most of that game was based around the mercenary and small unit tactics, as true wars were beyond the scope of the tabletop version... at least if you wanted to get a game done inside of a week.  Pacing is part of the problem for me but I think that's a core idea of the game that it's supposed to run past you and you hang on for the ride.  There's already discussions going about how to increase your feeling of effectiveness and importance in the sector, so I won't belabor that.  Just... Cool.

The game handling is pretty tight.  I'm pretty 'whatever, does it function' when it comes to pretty for a UI, particularly when it's not a AAA developer.  You go where you're supposed to, you shoot at what you target.  There's minor miffs I have (in 9.003 your target isn't obvious with all its bonuses anymore, like it was in 9.000) but you never get that 'what in hells name is my character doing NOW?' feeling.  It feels reasonably responsive (particularly for my speedy ship).  The combat is fast and furious but that's more a 'Are you into this' kind of thing than preference.  Right now I have to pause to examine any ship in detail and it's just not worth it.  I'm still going to fire a nuclear missile at it and hope it does some damage.

The exploration feel for the game is alright.  I'd rather there were less chests (alright, anomalies, space junk, and storage bins) that were worth more a piece, but they're there and help keep you from feeling you're flying through nothing for long stretches... because that's what you're going to do to find space lanes and gates... Room Doors and teleporters for the rest of us.

The galaxy definately feels alive around you.  There's constantly monsters attacking something somewhere.  It's particularly gratifying to be sitting at the trader screen browsing and selling and watching your influence and xp go up a bit because your fighters are going to work on some invader.

I think I'll come back to it in a few patches, see how it 'feels' then.  3 Sectors was enough to get a feel for the game (2 nights) and I won't say I didn't get my money's value out of it for $15 even if I walked away tonight, just on the "How many movies could I have gone and watched" question.

There's just a lot more I could see it being.
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Offline Bluddy

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #83 on: June 26, 2012, 08:55:15 am »
Excellent comments Wanderer. Can't wait for them to show up on the Soldak website.

The reason for moderation is that the Soldak forums used to be littered with tons of spam. Not sure how Arcen manages it.

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2012, 09:23:38 am »
Excellent comments Wanderer. Can't wait for them to show up on the Soldak website.

The reason for moderation is that the Soldak forums used to be littered with tons of spam. Not sure how Arcen manages it.

It helps that we're more than a one-man shop. :)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #85 on: June 26, 2012, 11:07:18 am »
The reason for moderation is that the Soldak forums used to be littered with tons of spam. Not sure how Arcen manages it.
Whack-a-mole!

I probably wind up doing remove-topic&ban 3 times a day when I see a spam post on a recent-unread-topics pass, and I imagine Josh and the others do more than that.

@Wanderer: good feedback.   I think part of your combat difficulties is in the "doing it wrong" category in that I find the "nibble a bit at the edges" approach to monster swarm works fine.  Particularly starting the "grass mow" as a traversal of the outer edge so you've got plenty of "extrasolar" space to kite into if you need to.  But in general lots of kiting is risky due to running into other monsters, and I think that's a good wrinkle.

Also: if you're not going 200 (the max speed), you are going too slow.  That's perhaps not what the developer intended but it's what I've found.  Even going 192 I've found is a significant tactical disadvantage compared to 200.

The game could make clearer what it expects people to do in terms of combat style, but one can hope :)
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2012, 11:59:18 am »
off hand what instantly is apparent is that Soldak is not the same feedback level as ye got from Arcengames, It seems like the developer doesn't want to talk specifics for one reason or another and doesn't have any proper overview over feedback (there is no suggestion subcategory). Anyhow I posted my piece but it was drowned out by posts so that is that ,) I don't think I should expect any change on the GUI so meh ;p The game is essentially unplayable to me with the opaque information FLOW, ugly colors and badly designed GUI layout. Now that I actually bothered with a mockup I can't even go back without thinking about the GUI. I spoiled the game for myself by myself. Awesome. ^^ Remind me to never do GUI mockups for games I should play instead again! ;)

The beta progresses really slowly too and I think the game suffers the same issue as all other of this ilk. A dead universe. Nothing NEW and FRESH and UNIQUE to experience outside the mission system. It's literally Diablo 2 in space, with some more depth, empire warfare where you don't participate at all and less loot. I shudder to say it but I actually prefer a randomized event system of Diablo 3 above this. At least then you never know what to expect, well until you know the event (which for some reason are not random themselves..)

Relevant read
http://www.blog.playscifi.com/explore-and-expand-or-exploit-and-expire/

By the way, it is kinda funny that because of a way the mission system works the game can never actually develop a proper narrative. We are not taking part in that universe, we are just bumping into some random part of it at times but besides that you could sit back and wait 3 hours and the game would have played itself because you are not PART of the game, you are an merc that is not bound to any particular planet. You'd just need to kill monsters every now and then. Seems like the biggest design flaw of them all. If you stand around and wait in AI WAR you get killed and game-over'd faster than you can count the first wave ;p

I still think I might have over-estimated what this game is gonna be able to do and what not. It is not a Depth of Peril in space and not a Din. It is actually more shallow. In DIN if you ignore everything, you can lose. In DOP you can lose nearly instantly if you don't partake in the world. But in this game, you can not actually lose.

And speaking of losing, how could you possible lose in a game like Drox? As it is made now we have nothing we could call a "base" I guess you could potentially lose if monsters somehow kill all races but that isn't exactly losing in any way.

It is kinda hard to describe what I mean, but I guess I mean that in DoP i always regard that clan MINE. I cared for them, but in Drox that feeling eludes me. And I don't think that is a "beta" issue ^^
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 12:14:46 pm by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2012, 01:09:40 pm »
On a side note, I tried to put up two different topics, breaking down the information into smaller chunks so it wasn't quite so overwhelming.  It's just the impression I get from that board.  I also got an answer for one of them... start a new low level character to go shopping for you.  Seriously, this is expected?

Only one of those topics was approved.   I guess the 'tone' of the other one wasn't preferable.  I don't know, I didn't see a particular response in my PMs.  With that, I'm pretty sure this topic won't go anywhere if I tried to post it in its entirety.

Oh well, not everyone can be Arcen.  I sometimes forget why I avoid a number of Indies in general and usually stick to AAAs... Keith and Chris have been spoiling the crap out of me, and I like it.

Keith, I might be able to see 200 speed being nearly required for hit and runs, but at the moment either I give up a gun or my power to stuff in another ram jet.  I did finally find a thrust module, so maybe I'll try it.  However, to the kiting, my problem isn't particularly the 'you ran into another herd' it's 'Pick a direction and you WILL run into a herd'.  The universe is a bit densely populated to my taste on that, I just want a little breathing room.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #88 on: June 26, 2012, 01:16:04 pm »
On a side note, I tried to put up two different topics, breaking down the information into smaller chunks so it wasn't quite so overwhelming.  It's just the impression I get from that board.  I also got an answer for one of them... start a new low level character to go shopping for you.  Seriously, this is expected?
I've never run into the "can't use what I can buy" syndrome, and I tend to buy my upgrades before I'm quite to the point of using them.  And I have three light slots with pretty good crew so I have maybe 6-7 levels worth of points more than I would without special crew.

But I think if you really did need to be able to buy lower-level components you could start a sector that was lower level and fly it with your "main" ship, too.  Creating a lower-level one would just be if you needed to do it while your main was in the middle of a sector.

Anyway, yea, that was a pretty amusing response ;)
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Offline StevenPeeler

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Re: Drox Operative
« Reply #89 on: June 26, 2012, 04:18:59 pm »
eRe4s3r: There is only one of me. We've released 3 patches already, that's pretty quick. I don't discuss too much on the forums because I can either discuss everything or make actual progress on addressing the issues. I do read everything though. Even that is taking a lot of time right now.

Wanderer: Both of your threads are up on our forums: thread1 and thread2. The only reasons so far that I have ever deleted or not approved threads was because of spam or duplicates.